Chris Jericho is perfect as Triple H's setup man

[Guest bcu1979]

Reminding me why I let my subscription to the Torch run out months ago and showing just how much he's willing to kiss Triple H's ass, Wade Keller made these comments on the Torch site today:

 

<<As I wrote in my Raw review in last week's VIP EXPRESS "Raw Roundtable," WWE are in the midst of their best use of Chris Jericho yet. He's playing that role of someone just a notch underneath the top tier guys, but he's still a major, prominent player. He's the guy challengers go through to get to Triple H. It's the right place for him on the roster, because he's not franchise player material, but he's definitely effective in the role he's in because he's not trying to be taken seriously as someone at the same level of Triple H, Brock Lesnar, or Steve Austin, which frees him up to play to his strengths as a heel.>>

 

Let's see...

 

Jericho...

a) is one of the WWE's most durable stars - he hasn't missed a week in 3 1/2 years with the company

b) one of the best workers in the company and is constantly able to get the most out of the Hogan's, Kane's and Steiner's of the WWE

c) has natural charisma that you can't buy and has managed to stay over for his entire WWE stint despite numberous attempts to bury him

d) is one of the best promo guys in the company and can cut serious main event style promos better than anyone not named Rock, Austin or Angle

 

Triple H...

a) is a washed up gimp who can't wrestle a match without hurting something in his leg. he's injured after every big match without fail and is out injured more than he wrestles

b) is a past his prime worker who has awful matches with bad workers and only seems to step it up when he's wrestling his Kliq buddies.

c) has manufactured charisma and has only managed to get over when the WWE hype machine is in full force shoving him down everyone's throat. d)despite being pushed as the "God" of RAW for the last 6 months, Triple H can't even buy heat for his never-ending promos that sucessfully kill off the crowd

 

Not to mention Meltzer's ratings analysis showed that there's virtually no difference in ratings between Jericho in the main event and Triple H in the main event, despite Triple H being pushed much stronger.

 

If Jericho isn't "franchise" material, then Triple H should be main eventing Heat since Jericho has him beat in every category.

[Guest the pinjockey]

Hasn't Keller always hated, looked down at Jericho?

[Guest TheHulkster]

Wade isn't a big fan of Jericho's IMO since his little tirade against the net (and most specifically the Torch) last year. It's kind of like Dean and his good buddy Lance Storm. It's just one of those things.

[Guest the pinjockey]

I thought it went back further than that though. Wasn't X-Pac supposedly a big source for Keller so Wade would slob his knob and those around him and bash Jericho when he first came in since it was the cool thing to do?

[Guest geniusMoment]

Agreed on Keller. I subscribed to the torch from 1996 until about April 2000. The reason why I no longer subscribe is simple, the Torch became a newsletter that constantly ripped on Jericho and praised HHH. Lately I have heard they now rip on HHH but I have never regretted my decision to give up my subscription. They would have weekly stories on Jericho not have good WWE style and just in general not being a good worker. They ripped apart his heel mannerisms. Keller even ripped apart Jerichos debut promo, saying his goofy facial expressions made him seem bush league. Its obvious Keller for whatever reason doesn't like Jericho, hey thats fine we all have opinions, but I just don't put much faith in his anymore.

[Guest bcu1979]

The Torch was the outlet for all those anti-Jericho campaigns when he first came in the WWE.

 

Jericho has an attitude problem. Jericho can't work. Jericho can't take criticism. Jericho is overrated. Jericho is sloppy.

 

It's not hard to figure out where their information was coming from.

[Guest Sakura]

I pretty much agree. I cannot buy Jericho as a top tier wrestler. His promos just don't come anywhere near cutting it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

HHH's promos don't cut jack crap, but he's a top tier guy.

 

I love Jericho's promos. He knows when to be calm and when to be whiny.

 

HHH just rambles on and bores the crowd.

[Guest Sakura]

I can buy HHH as a top guy. He sounds like he means what he says. He can sell a match. IMO Jericho comes off as a guy trying to sound obnoxius and get heel heat and it just doesn't work. I don't find Jericho's mic work that effective because I can't believe he honestly thinks he's the king of the world.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I pretty much agree. I cannot buy Jericho as a top tier wrestler. His promos just don't come anywhere near cutting it.

But you can buy HHH? It's one thing to think Jericho isn't main event caliber, but Cripple H is far less deserving.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I think that has more to do with the way he's pushed. He says he's king of the world while being treated like a bitch.

 

I've always liked his promos. His "I'm not a joke" promo with the Rock in early 2002 was great. His calm promos with HBK not long ago were great. He has a great wit and manages to say some funny things like his "rubiks cube" comment on Hogan back in 2002. I could go on about his WCW work too.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I can buy HHH as a top guy. He sounds like he means what he says. He can sell a match. IMO Jericho comes off as a guy trying to sound obnoxius and get heel heat and it just doesn't work. I don't find Jericho's mic work that effective because I can't believe he honestly thinks he's the king of the world.

Did you not see Jericho's promo before RR 2002. No way HHH could of done that speech with the effectivness that Jericho did.

[Guest Sakura]

I was talking about promos.

[Guest bcu1979]

Jericho can cut some bad promos and he has the tendency to go over the top at times. But Jericho has far more hits than misses and he never disappoints when he's actually got something meaty to work with.

 

Jericho also has range that Triple H can only dream of. All you have to do is look at the promos he cut on Shawn Michaels the last couple months. He went from being cocky to subdued to intense in the matter of 10 minutes and every bit of was believable and compelling. Not to mention the awesome "I'm not a joke" promo he cut on Rock that just blew away everything that all but the best promo guys in the WWE have ever done.

 

Anyone who can stand toe to toe on the mic with Rock and not look like the consolation prize can damn sure be a franchise player.

[Guest the pinjockey]

Also the promos before the Rock feud were gold. It seems like any time he is booked seriously he is able to cut a serious promo.

[Guest geniusMoment]

If you do not believe Kellers deep down HHH love and Jericho hatred here is what Keller had to say about Jericho the day he signed with the then WWF. "There has been a lot of talk that Jericho is the next Shawn Michaels. Jericho is shorter than the average wrestler Vince McMahon targets as a main eventer, but his in-ring skill, mic skill, quick wit, enthusiasm for the business, and marketable looks apparently make him an exception to McMahon's rule."

So why then as soon as he debuted did Keller jump on the HHH and Waltman bandwagon and say that Jericho has a bad comedy act, is sloppy in the ring, isn't that good of a worker, works a cruiser style, has an ego that won't let him take advice and just generally has been a dissapointment. All of those things are things keller wrote about Jericho in his first six months with the WWF. I guess Jericho got a bad attitude, forget how to not injure people, forgot how to be a good heel, and forgot how to wrestle well in general.

[Guest Sakura]

Jericho's WCW work was even more goofy and less believable than his current work.

 

 

I didn't find the HBK stuff to be that special. The stuff with Rock was great though. But I didn't think it was as good as HHH's work with Rock.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

But his WCW work was supposed to be goofy.........and he played it perfectly. His feud with Malenko was a thing of beauty because of Jericho's promos.

 

I don't really remember much about HHH/Rock promos.......maybe that says something about their lasting effect......or about my memory.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Seeing how Waltman and Keller both are from Minnesota. Waltman probably told Keller if he didn't start criticizing Jericho, he wouldn't be is source anymore.

[Guest bcu1979]

I can buy HHH as a top guy. He sounds like he means what he says. He can sell a match. IMO Jericho comes off as a guy trying to sound obnoxius and get heel heat and it just doesn't work. I don't find Jericho's mic work that effective because I can't believe he honestly thinks he's the king of the world.

How much of that is announcing? J.R. goes out of his way to put over Triple H. He gets more verbal blow jobs from J.R. than most of the faces do. Triple H may be an evil heel BUT he is that damn good, he is the cerebral assasin and he is all the other lame nicknames Triple H made up for himself.

 

Meanwhile, Jericho is constantly buried in the commentary by J.R. He's delusional for thinking he's the King of the World. His clothes and appearance are mocked and he's never treated as a real threat.

 

Jericho plays his part as the cocky full-of-himself heel perfectly. His posing, interaction with the fans and facials are all first rate in getting his chaacter over. But he's constantly underminded by bad booking and announcing.

 

The fact that Jericho can still get a crowd to react to his promos and matches despite his booking makes Keller's claims even more ridiculous.

[Guest Sakura]

Yeah, it was supposed to be goofy and it was very entertaining. I just don't buy it coming from someone who is a top tier guy. Just below, yeah sure.

 

 

I also thought HHH's stuff with Foley was really cool.

[Guest Sakura]

Again, I am only talking about about his promos. He doesn't sound believable. It is totally is fault.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Foley did most of the talking in the feud with HHH.......except the "Have a Bad Day" vignettes.....but those were goofy.

 

Most of HHH's "good" promos came when he worked against someone who was a good talker, but when HHH is out there doing a monologue it's pretty bad.

 

Jericho has the ability to cut a good promo by himself and head to head with someone.

 

Again, I am only talking about about his promos. He doesn't sound believable. It is totally is fault.

 

How is it unbelievable? Something other than what he's saying has to come into play to make him sound unbelievable. It's not the way he says it.........atleast in my view. He delivers his promos in a way that a cocky bastard would. How do you want him to deliver them? If he tries to sound like the "bad ass" he loses his cocky air he has. Jericho's promos are perfect for his character.

 

I just don't understand what you're saying I guess.

 

Maybe you should flesh out exactly why you think he's unbelievable.

[Guest The Amazing Rando]

He's not supposed to sound believable...

 

Jericho's supposed to sound like an egotistical jerk that is the only one in the world that thinks he is that good...

 

....kinda sounds like Trips....

 

Whatever...it's simple fact that if you bash Jericho in TSM and say HHH is good then you will get bashed for it.....but their are arguments for Jericho's side...and their are small arguments for HHH's side...

 

either way...

 

Jericho > HHH at TSM...

[Guest Sakura]

Now come on, HHH MADE Cactus Jack in their promos.

[Guest the pinjockey]

HHH didnt make Cactus Jack through a promo he made cactus Jack look important by looking scared shitless.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Now come on, HHH MADE Cactus Jack in their promos.

By his facial expressions yes...........but in my opinion I think Cactus Jack was made long before he ever met HHH.

[Guest Sakura]

HHH was totally awesome selling their street fight and Hell In a Cell match.

 

 

 

Whatever...it's simple fact that if you bash Jericho in TSM and say HHH is good then you will get bashed for it.....

 

 

Which is really lame. I didn't even bring up HHH or want to talk about him.

[Guest bcu1979]

Catcus Jack MADE Triple H by putting over how much he wanted to win the WWE title in his home state and then putting over how much he wanted to win HIAC so he could fulfill his dream of main eventing WM in his promos. And then he let Triple H beat him clean both times to squash all of his dreams.

 

And have there been any examples given of good promos Triple H has cut since the beginning of 2000? It's sad that all the arguments for Triple H deserving his spot revolve around matches and promos that happened 3 years ago.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

HHH was totally awesome selling their street fight and Hell In a Cell match.

 

 

 

Whatever...it's simple fact that if you bash Jericho in TSM and say HHH is good then you will get bashed for it.....

 

 

Which is really lame. I didn't even bring up HHH or want to talk about him.

If I'm not mistaken your whole discussion has beeen HHH's promos vs. Jericho's promos so what do you mean by you didn't bring him up or want to discuss him?