I Want to Make a Jr. Heavyweight/Highflying comp

[Guest JohnSkins]

Allright, so rather than go out and get all the shows that I don't have that have and upgrade the sorryass VQ on the shows I do have I figure that I should just have Lynch or someone else make me a comp with all the decent Jr. matches (with perhaps a few guilty pleasures). Here are the matches I think that should go on there:

 

Lyger vs. El Samurai (4/30/92)

Lyger vs. Ohtani (3/17/96)

Lyger vs. Ohtani (2/9/97)

Ohtani vs. El Samurai (1/21/96)

Ohtani vs. Wild Pegasus (3/20/96)

Ultimo Dragon vs. Ohtani (8/4/96)

Lyger vs Sasuke (4/16/94)

Benoit vs Sasuke (4/16/94)

Benoit vs Black Tiger (BOSJ 1995)

Naoki Sano vs. Lyger (1/31/90)

Black Tiger vs. Pegasus Kid (6/11/96)

Black Tiger vs. Lyger (6/12/96)

Great Sasuke & Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus & Ohtani (10/16/94)

"These Days" 10-Man Tag (10/10/96)

Great Sasuke & Gran Hamada & Gran Naniwa & Super Delfin & Masato Yakushiji vs. Men's Teioh & Dick Togo & TAKA Michinoku & Sho Funaki & Shiryu (12/16/96)

Taka Michinoku vs. Hayabusa - FMW (11/16/96)

Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. Psicosis (12/13/95)

Ultimo Dragon vs. Lyger (12/13/95)

 

What does everyone think? Are there any glaring omissions? Is there anything on there that's not worth the tape space? Do you think that Lynch will have all of these matches in EX VQ? Thanks in advance.

[Guest wolverine]

If you have an urge to see Koji Kanemoto, get his 6/3/98 match with Dr. Wagner Jr. Wagner manages to reign him in pretty well. I needed to mention this before someone mentions the craptacular Samurai match from 6/5/97 that features some really ridiculous psych holes.

[Guest Jubuki]

There's little point in getting the J-Cup 94 and 95 matches on the tape. They're good, but you just want the whole tournaments, if you like Jrs. work. You also probably want to drop the three '96 Ohtani matches you've got, as Lynch doesn't get the NJ Classics stuff, and all he has are the clipped versions. The J*Crown is worth getting on its own as well, even if Ohtani/Dragon is the big draw. I can say for both of the other matches that the full is better. I would drop TAKA vs. Busa because it's just not anything special. I'd try to add some Lucha in the form of Rey/Juvi 3/16/96, Rey/Santo 2/21/97, and Santo/Psic 5/7/95. You may want to head after the ECW matches between Rey & Juvi/Psic if you don't already have them. Those, or the Ultimo Dragon from 1996 WCW stuff is about as good as you're going to get for Jrs. on this side of the ocean.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Eddy/Ohtani from 95 Starrcade is good stuff, too. I'd also recommend Benoit/Malenko from 96 Hogg Wild, although the crowd's totally dead for pretty much the entire thing. Ah, love those drunken bikers.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

I'd also add some of the Lyger vs. Sano matches that were wrestled prior to the 1/31/90 match, but that's partly the massive Lyger fan in me talking. They are all excellent though.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I'd snag some Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask as well, considering their influence on the Junior style.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Add Ohtani vs. Sakuraba, Lyger vs. Togo, and Delphin vs. TAKA (all on 6/17/96)

 

The Kanemoto/Tanaka tag team had some pretty good matches as well (most notably vs. Lyger/Makabe in September of 2000)

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Oh come off it Black Tiger, those J Crown tourny matches are really nothing special, this is meant to be a best of the best tape. They're good, but really, not that good.

[Guest JohnSkins]

I was thinking about the Lucha Libre but in all honesty I don't know shit about it. I did however look at the DVDVR "Best of the 1990's" results page and saw that the 16 Man Cibernetico Match from 4/18/97 was ranked first. Was this match the shit or something and would it be worth including?

 

As far as the Ohtani matches that I would get (JIP) are they worth keeping on or should I just get the NJ classics later, I read JDW's ballot for the DVDVR New Japan voting and he had the El Samurai vs. Shinjiro Ohtani (1/21/96) as his #1 match of the decade for New Japan, so I'm torn.

 

I figure I'm probablly going to have to get this tape from Lynch and I know his comp prices are kinda high, so which of the Mich Pro 10-man tags should I keep, unless they're both that good in their own rights. Also would he actually HAVE all of the matches I want? I allready have both J-Cups and the J-Crown it's just that the VQ is pretty shady and I'd rather just have the highlight matches until I get the $$$ together after I graduate and find a real job and the like. Again, thanks for all the help.

 

Anyway, here's the revised matchlist...

 

Liger vs. El Samurai (4/30/92)

Liger vs. Ohtani (3/17/96)-maybe

Liger vs. Ohtani (2/9/97)

Ohtani vs. El Samurai (1/21/96)-maybe

Ohtani vs. Wild Pegasus (3/20/96)-maybe

Ultimo Dragon vs. Ohtani (8/4/96)

Lyger vs Sasuke (4/16/94)

Benoit vs Sasuke (4/16/94)

Benoit vs Black Tiger (BOSJ 1995)

Naoki Sano vs. Liger (1/31/90)

Black Tiger vs. Pegasus Kid (6/11/96)

Black Tiger vs. Liger (6/12/96)

Great Sasuke & Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus & Ohtani (10/16/94)

TAKA Michinoku & Sho Funaki & Dick Togo & Shiryu & Men's Teioh vs. Gran Naniwa & Super Delfin & Tiger Mask IV & Masato Yakushiji & Gran Hamada (10/10/96)

Great Sasuke & Gran Hamada & Gran Naniwa & Super Delfin & Masato Yakushiji vs. Men's Teioh & Dick Togo & TAKA Michinoku & Sho Funaki & Shiryu (12/16/96)

Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. Psicosis (12/13/95)

Ultimo Dragon vs. Liger (12/13/95)

Koji Kanemoto vs. Dr. Wagner Jr (6/3/98)

Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. Juvi (3/16/96)

Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. El Hijo ee Santo (2/21/97)

El Hijo de Santo vs. Psicosis (5/7/95)

16 Man Cibernetico Match (4/18/97)-maybe

[Guest Jubuki]

As I said, they're all better full. They're great, but get them elsewhere. I would leave off the Cibernetico match as well, as it's about an hour long and probably doesn't have much of a payoff in terms of this tape. And, if you're getting from Lynch, make sure you specify to add the full version of the 2/97 Liger/Ohtani, or he'll give you the TV edit instead.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

For Lucha, just go to Barnett and get the AAA 3/1996 tape with Rey v Juve. Best Juniors lucha match you will find.

 

Tim

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Well I had heard that the AAA When Worlds Collide show was pretty good.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The Double Hair Vs. Double Mask match is a must-see, but nothing else on that show is worthwhile. I'd suggest that you stick that one on a comp somewhere also.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Ah, but then you'd be depriving yourself of that Konnan/Perro Aguayo barnburner in the cage...*snicker*

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

Ohtani vs Kanemoto from 1998 I think it was.

 

 

The one which at the end Kanemoto is almost in tears because the match had just ruled the world but Ohtani in full rudo dickhead mode refuses to shake his hand.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

Ah, but then you'd be depriving yourself of that Konnan/Perro Aguayo barnburner in the cage...*snicker*

I loved this match. Total guilty pleasure chaotic Lucha brawl.

 

Good backstory, massive jacked up crowd, great bladejob by Perro, the five minute section where Eddie is casually throwing the brassknucks into the cage and the whole finish with Eddie getting into a fight with a fan. Then no selling the worst weapon shot of all time and Perro who threw it just laughing.

 

Forget star ratings and workrate reports and switch your brain of and enjoy the madness.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Well...that's a different way than I would've described it. Personally, It might be in the top five worst matches I've ever seen, and is easily in my top three least favorite.

 

Eddie was SNAPPING on that fan, though. He kept going back for more. Good shit, that.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Try to find at least one match with Ohtani/Takaiwa defedning the Jr. Tag Titles, their matches vs. Black Tiger/Jericho, Ka Shin/Tanaka and Kanemoto/Tanaka were all really good.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

The Konnan/Aguayo cage match probably is the worst non-American match I've ever seen. Eddie is the only good thing about it, and he's not wrestling the match. It's the most boring and repetitive crapshoot that a proper headlining non-gimmick match could possibly be.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

Baah ignore the haters its a fun match. The wrestling is piss poor but all the other things going on make it a good watch.

 

 

The whole of When Worlds Collide was a great card as well. Its Art Barr's finest hour that makes it a must see though.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

"the wrestling is piss poor" - and that about sums it up.

 

The Hair vs. Mask match on WWC is very, very good due to a cracking story, good work, and the pushing of the face comeback about as far as it can believably go. The rest of the card is average at best, horrible at worst, I certainly regretted picking it up and not just getting the Hair vs. Mask match on a compilation.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

That Eddie thing reminds me of the HHH/HBK cage match. You have two shitty workers in there having a bad match and then someone interferes and the match is so bad that the workrate sky rockets.

When Flair interfered(in his shitty oldness) he was still better than both of those men.

I'm guessing the same was true with Eddie.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Wait is the Mask vs. Hair match the 2/3 falls tag match on that show?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Yes.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

The rest of the card is average at best, horrible at worst

I would strongly disagree with your opinion on the show. And considering the cult status the tape has with fans and tape traders almost 10 years after it happened I am sure many others would disagree as well.

 

 

I would call the show incredible at best [the tag match] and average at worst [the main event]. Although as I have said before theres alot to enjoy in the main event. The opener is top class midget wrestling, Octagoncito who was good here has become an insane high flyer and awesome worker. The two six men tags both had solid wrestling and lots of carny lucha silliness. Louie Spiccoli taking the piss out of Rey Misterio and La Parka causing his usual madness The english commentry with Mike Tenay is a great bonus for lucha fans like myself who speak barely any spanish. The tag match is icing on the cake with Art Barr getting so much heat you feel the crowd would probably have rioted if Santo and Octagon had lost their masks.

 

 

Its not as good as some of the Art Barr comps I have but as a complete show its defantly a keeper and one I like to rewatch every few months. Great intro to the world of Lucha Libre as well.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

Well since it was meant to be my introduction to the world of lucha, and it failed miserably to capture my imagination and make me want to buy more, I'd disagree strongly with that.

 

I am greatly entertained by the midgets, but the match, as with all midget matches I'm sure, was nothing more than an exhibition. The six men tags were considerably less than solid for me. There are good elements, like La Parka's mannerism stuff and Rey's crisp high spots, but most of the workers in there were just plain sloppy, and because they weren't used to the single fall format, the matches ended anticlimactically.

 

Your comment that the hair / mask match was the 'icing on the cake' is way off. The match IS the cake. And yes, this is a superb match, but I can't say that the show is good when there is only one good match on it. Following a match like this with a main event like they had was just an abysmal decision too. Endless repitition of poorly executed moves from Aguayo, slow and meaningless brawling from Konnan, and to top it all off, it's in a cage, just to charliehorse any possibility of moving away from the wrestlers limitations.

 

As for the Americanised production from WCW, well, it just makes a dodgy show all the worse. The commentators haven't got a clue of how to call the action, especially the sudden finishes for the matches, which they handle very poorly, only twigging that the matches had actually finished considerably after they had. The camera work is also horrible, frequently missing spots. It all contributes to making When Worlds Collide a bad show, and something I doubt i'll ever watch in full again.

[Guest wolverine]

On top of that, it was held at the L.A. Sports Arena - the crappiest venue I've ever been to. That isn't a place I'd want to go back to, after going to a basketball game there 5 years ago.

[Guest JohnSkins]

Thanks for the assistance everyone, aside from the three JIP Ohtani matches from 1996 I'm pretty set on what I'm going to e-mail to Lynch, here's the final list and I think it looks pretty damn solid.

 

Liger vs. El Samurai (4/30/92)

Liger vs. Ohtani (3/17/96)-maybe

Liger vs. Ohtani (2/9/97) - Full Version, not the TV edit

Ohtani vs. El Samurai (1/21/96)-maybe

Ohtani vs. Wild Pegasus (3/20/96)-maybe

Ultimo Dragon vs. Ohtani (8/4/96)

Shinjiro Ohtani vs. Wild Pegasus (3/20/96 - WCW Cruiserweight Title Final)

Lyger vs Sasuke (4/16/94)

Benoit vs Sasuke (4/16/94)

Benoit vs Black Tiger (BOSJ 1995)

Naoki Sano vs. Liger (1/31/90)

Black Tiger vs. Pegasus Kid (6/11/96)

Black Tiger vs. Liger (6/12/96)

Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Misterio, Jr. (11/96) - WCW

Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. Eddy Guerrero (10/97) - WCW

Great Sasuke & Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus & Ohtani (10/16/94)

TAKA Michinoku & Sho Funaki & Dick Togo & Shiryu & Men's Teioh vs. Gran Naniwa & Super Delfin & Tiger Mask IV & Masato Yakushiji & Gran Hamada (10/10/96)

Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. Psicosis (12/13/95)

Ultimo Dragon vs. Liger (12/13/95)

Koji Kanemoto vs. Dr. Wagner Jr (6/3/98)

Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. Juvi (3/16/96)

Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. El Hijo de Santo (2/21/97)

El Hijo de Santo vs. Psicosis (5/7/95)

El Hijo Del Santo/Octagon vs. Love Machine/Eddy Guerrero (11/6/94 When Worlds Collide)

 

 

EDIT: Almost forgot, are any of those NOAH vs. NJ jr's matches worth putting on the tape?

[Guest wolverine]

I would STRONGLY advise to get the complete 1/21/96 Ohtani/Samurai. It is far too great, complex and deep--with Ohtani turning in possibly his career best performance--to not see in its entirety. The 8/96 Dragon match would probably appeal more to newer fans because of the accessibility of the highspots, but this one is far better because of how all the early limb work plays so beautifully into the stretch run. Very well might be the best NJ match of the 90's, with the 4/92 Liger/Sammy and 3/96 Liger/Ohtani being the only ones coming close.

[Guest JohnSkins]

Which NJ Classics tape are those matches on? I'm looking around Highspots and I can't find em, and should I even go to Highspots or is there another site that has better VQ and the like?