Guest Just call me Dan Report post Posted February 6, 2003 Goldust does NOT need a heel turn. This guy got over on his own merit and is a huge crowd favorite. He can play both sides rather well, but he won't draw viewers as a heel. We've seen him be the deranged and vengeful character many years ago, and this is a great run for him. Putting a brick wall in front of this face run would be ludicrous. He has the crowd rallied behind him always, and like someone else said before, he looks to be becoming the next Foley. He deserves it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted February 6, 2003 He's not going anywhere as a face though, a heel turn would elevate both he and Booker and would hopefully stop outside parties killing their heat whilst they feuded Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Edwin MacPhisto Report post Posted February 6, 2003 I really don't think a heel turn would do anything for Goldust. He couldn't be a serious heel of any sort; he never really has been. He could be a comedy heel, but without an IC title in existence, I think he still does best as a Fun And Dependable Sidekick With A Complex Yet Appreciative Relationship To His #1 Guy. Basically, I think a Booker/Goldust feud would obviously conclude with Booker going over, and Goldust spending the rest of his career on Heat until they eventually reunite to win the tag belts when the WWE gets tired. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted February 6, 2003 well of course Book would go over but if they did the cape fearish obsession angle Goldy could continue to be associated with Booker by being connected with whomever Book was feuding with at the time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wwF1587 Report post Posted February 7, 2003 HHH should wrestle Booker T for the title... I mean it could be THE GAME VS THE PLAYER.. that would draw as Booker is one of the most over guys on RAW and he deserves it... Booker should win as well but I see a WM16 finish here with HHH getting the win by a screwjob.... I have a feeling it will be Battle Of The Roids III though... DAMN YOU WWE! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Report post Posted February 7, 2003 If Rock vs. Austin and Lesnar vs. Angle are the top matches, with others like Vince vs. Hogan and Jericho vs. Michaels as the 2nd tier attractions, HHH doesn't need a "big opponent" who will "draw" because the top 2 matches will be the draws and Vince/Hogan might draw some fans in as well for the curiosity factor. Of course, that might be the whole point: HHH wants to look like he's carrying the buyrate or somethnig while in reality he will just be riding along on the Rock-Austin train. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoSelfWorth Report post Posted February 7, 2003 There wouldn't be this worry over who is left as a credible opponent for HGH if he hadn't spent the last 4+ months burying everyone else on Raw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 7, 2003 That is what I am concerned about WMX19...Who can detirmine WHAT exactly brought the casual/non fans to watch WMX19? Hogan/McMahon? Hogan always drawn well and McMahon is a big name and the appeal of These two legends is amazing to Nonfans. Brock/Angle? A great fued that has been built for months and can argue they bring in Wrestling Purists to the show. Rock/Austin? The two biggest names since Hogan facing again...Rock coming off the heels of a Major Movie box office success and Austin's been in the news for weeks now... Then you got your under card Mains with Jericho/HBK, The likely Edge/Benoit match and HHH/Booker/Steiner/Nash/RVD/Kane/Goldust Raw title main. How will we tell what drew the fans in? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted February 7, 2003 3 Ideas: Idea #1: Combine HBK vs Jericho with HHH vs Steiner and make it for the title. Awesome way to get the most out of Steiner and then eliminate him and then eliminate Jericho and then have HHH vs HBK for the final. Idea 2: HHH vs a Super Secret Mystery opponent. I don't know how it would be set up, but it would allow them to wait until the absolute last second to figure out who his opponent would be (Goldberg, Sting, etc..) 3: HHH vs every RAW superstar in a Buried Alive Match..of course, HHH would easily win this even though the size of the hole would have to be huge to fit all the hosses in it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 7, 2003 3 Ideas: Idea #1: Combine HBK vs Jericho with HHH vs Steiner and make it for the title. Awesome way to get the most out of Steiner and then eliminate him and then eliminate Jericho and then have HHH vs HBK for the final. Idea 2: HHH vs a Super Secret Mystery opponent. I don't know how it would be set up, but it would allow them to wait until the absolute last second to figure out who his opponent would be (Goldberg, Sting, etc..) 3: HHH vs every RAW superstar in a Buried Alive Match..of course, HHH would easily win this even though the size of the hole would have to be huge to fit all the hosses in it... 1. God No. Keep HHH/HBK away until they meet at ShadyVille Retirement Home. Jericho/HBK already has been built...why throw Steiner and Trips in there? 2. Yes and It will turn out to be Road Warrior Animal. 3. Nah...It's the biggest show on earth...They need to include Smackdown as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Austin3164life Report post Posted February 7, 2003 I think I can see Triple H vs. Austin as much as Rock/Austin III. Many of you guys are jumping to conclusions about a Rock and Austin threematch. With Austin's pseudo-shoot comments on Triple H it's just as much a possibility. Besides, Austin would most likely appear on Raw, since SD is stacked with more big names. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted February 7, 2003 That what I said awhile ago but they are all convince that Ibob is correct in Austin/Rock although I haven't heard a single thing said about the two on Network...As opposed to when J.R made mention of the Words austin said about the Game...Indicates that Austin/HHH could go down... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted February 7, 2003 3 Ideas: Idea #1: Combine HBK vs Jericho with HHH vs Steiner and make it for the title. Awesome way to get the most out of Steiner and then eliminate him and then eliminate Jericho and then have HHH vs HBK for the final. 1. God No. Keep HHH/HBK away until they meet at ShadyVille Retirement Home. Jericho/HBK already has been built...why throw Steiner and Trips in there? Well..Im only going to comment on #1 since thats the one that I see as most feasible. Jericho - feuds with HHH and HBK, wrestled Stiener which could be parlayed into a feud if they wanted to. HHH - feuds with all 3 at some point HBK - fueds with HHH and Jericho. Wouldn't have a fued with Stiener but that wouldn't make sense given current storylines. Steiner - current fued with HHH. Match with Jericho could set up feud if they wanted to. Honestly, I can't see how a 4 Way match would be worse than sitting through a 3rd straight Steiner HHH match, and you could end the HHH vs HBK fued at Wrestlemania which would seem appropriate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FeArHaVoC Report post Posted February 7, 2003 LoL Smackdown is on Cruise Control going into WM, and Raw is such a Mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest converge241 Report post Posted February 7, 2003 They could build up Booker T vs HHH well if they play up the revenge on Goldust them against the "evolution" Hell, HHH can even point out that he "needs" to win because you dont want 2 new face champions (Brock over Angle) Id be happy with the program even if Booker doesnt get the win But yes as pointed out it will be HHH- Nash if nash is ok (well..as ok as he gets) This is how I see the card (not my booking but where im guessing they are going) Brock- Angle HHH- Nash Y2J-HBK Taker - Show Team Angle - Benoit/Edge or maybe Rey in there Storm/Regal - Duldleys in some kind of gimmick/last shot type of match Trish - Victoria- Jazz (or some kind of combination of those gals) Booker/Dust - Orton/batista (or Booker - dust) RVD - Kane Hogan- Vince Rock - Goldberg maybe Austin- Steiner?? of course a lot of monkey wrenches can chang those matches (like no Goldberg, no Nash..or if they sign someone else) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shanghai Kid 2003 Report post Posted February 7, 2003 The best case scenario would be Austin vs HHH, the top face vs the top heel on Raw. If you have to go the tired Austin/Rock route, than HHH vs Booker T is the way to go....only if Booker goes over though. Sting vs HHH, I wouldn't complain, Sting could come in as a huge automatically over face. HHH vs Goldberg....if Goldberg signs, he should face Rock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest THE MIGHTY THOR Report post Posted February 7, 2003 Personally i think the right thing for the business, not just WWE but the whole wrestling business is for HHH to loose the belt to either RVD or Booker(i would choose RVD over Booker ) and that will automatically elevate either of those 2 as main eventers and serious contenders, even though RVD's pops have decrease they are still bigger than Booker's believe it or not, but either way any of those 2 would do a better job entertaining the fans in the ring than Steiner as a champ, Nash(wtf?)as a champ or even Trips as a champ, my heart goes out to RVD and Booker 2 guys that got over without Vince's help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BobbyWhioux Report post Posted February 7, 2003 You know, the upside to the compressed feud cycles we usually complain so much about ("damn feuds these days are so short and compressed!") is that they CAN start a wrestlemania feud from scratch in February. MEANING... that they could start up a program for RVD or Booker T vs. HHH. Especially since this match is going to be low on the card (no matter how high it's placed, its a lowcard match. Remember in the old days of Wrestlemania they'd do a four minute throaway garbage match like Owen Hart vs. Skinner really late in the card right between the two big ones? That's what HHH's match is gonna be like) its not a priority to have an epic buildup to it. Already got Angle vs Lesnar for the Real World Championship [contrasted with HHH's fake world title], Hogan vs Vince (which cannot POSSIBLY go too long), Jericho vs Michaels. If that doesn't sell a PPV, nothing will at this point. Here's my idea: Why not have Kane turn on RVD and become the Forth HHHorseman? [4th wrestling one I mean; I count Flair as the manager, the new JJ Dillon if you weeeeeeel] Bam. RVD has motivation to start going after Randy Orton and Neanderthals. Maybe mix in Booker for some tag action against The Four Hoss-men. Maybe an injured Goldust limps down the aisle to neutralize (or at least occupy) the Hoss-men at ringside while RVD and Booker win tag matches or one on one matches. RVD thumps Kane, Booker whatcks Orton Backstage and beats Batista in the ring. HHH, the "cerebral assassin" decides that RVD and Booker can wrestle each other for the right to wrestle him for the title. Do a couple spots backstage where he talks about nipping this alliance in the bud or whatever. Of course the match is a trap and they both get beat down by The 4 Hoss-men {H, Orton, Kane, Batista} but because it's a no contest, neither man loses, and thus you just play the Deus Ex McMahonica card and have Shane (because Bisch will be gone by this point) make it a three way for the title at WM. Built up in about a month. Enough time to start now and get there before WM. Sure, you may balk at the idea of a wrestlemania world title match being a three way, but remember this: Already had that 4 way world title match at WM16. This ain't so bad as that, is it? This is a midcarder match. This is a midcarder title, even though it says "world" on it. It's like the hardcore title or WCW's old TV title. It's that kind of level. It's not really a world championship, in spite of what HHH would like you to believe. Neither Booker T nor RVD have to face the unenviable (impossible?) task of coaxing a good match out of Hunter alone. Plus, when they BOTH upstage him, it will be that much more obvious that HHH is the problem (Vince probably still won't notice and blame both of them, but it'll at least be more obvious to the common fan, at least. I think. Right?) Meanwhile, let Goldust play the revenge angle. Let him hunt down the Hoss-men. Why not let the guy get his own vengeance? Besides, that's the other upside to the short PPV cycles; everybody heals from serious injuries much more quickly. Goldie will be back in plenty of time from his heinous electrocution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted February 7, 2003 Booker T and RVD aren't ready though. Noth need to be re-tooled and built up, which won't happen in the course of a month a a half. Go with Austin/HHH now, it's got the backstory, some intrigue, the star power, and it's just generally the right story to culminate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2003 Booker T and RVD aren't ready though. Noth need to be re-tooled and built up, which won't happen in the course of a month a a half. Not ready yet. Now, where have I heard those arguments before ? Oh, right, WWE writers have used this argument consistently for certain people waiting to be pushed but haven't been thus far. There's got to be a time where these guys ARE pushed, and what better time than around WrestleMania ? You can sit there and say they're not ready yet, but when IS the right time to start their rise then ? If you keep holding it off, it will never happen. I personally found that RVD/Booker/HHH idea great, and it would be a fine Raw Title Match if they did that. Builds up both guys but doesn't leave them to carry on a one-on-one match with HHH if some don't think they're ready. But I mean...if you don't build them up now, when are you going to ? It's time to either shit or get off the pot when it comes to the rise of RVD and Booker T.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted February 7, 2003 They are going to do whatever they can to pop a buy-rate. And we all know that Booker, RVD, etc. aren't capable of doing that in the WWE's eyes. I'll be surprised if Steiner is still in the WWE by 'Mania. His burial will be complete at NWO and he'll be gone. Nash is sadly an option, as well as Goldberg and Sting. Goldberg won't work with HHH so he's out. Between Sting and Nash I'll take Sting 365 days a year. Sting for the WWA might not be a draw. But, Sting in the WWE for the 1st time, in a high profile match, with Ric Flair managing his opposition wouldn't cause anyone to not buy the show (which could be done by having HHH v. Nash). Actually Flair v. Sting in a WWE ring at 'Mania might draw more then HHH v. Sting, but I doubt that they could really go anymore. I still know a lot of people that would mark for Sting in the WWE. That's who I would choose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2003 They are going to do whatever they can to pop a buy-rate. And we all know that Booker, RVD, etc. aren't capable of doing that in the WWE's eyes. Is it Booker T and RVD's job to pop a buyrate for WrestleMania ? We have Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho and (presumably) The Rock vs. Steve Austin. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't buy the card for that, nothing will get you to. HHH does not need to have a blockbuster-superstar match for this card since other matches are supporting it. If HHH went against RVD or Booker (or a combination of the 2), it would do just fine in a card filled with possible Main Events. Like I said before, you keep holding out on these pushes, they will never get done. Put HHH vs. RVD ( or HHH vs. Booker, I guess ) at WrestleMania and go for the freshness and possible success of it. If fans don't buy this card for Angle/Brock or Jericho/HBK, I highly doubt they'll do it for HHH/Nash.....HHH/Austin isn't horrible but I'd rather something fairly new instead of the same hashed-up match we've seen for the past few years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted February 7, 2003 Is it Booker T and RVD's job to pop a buyrate for WrestleMania ? We have Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho and (presumably) The Rock vs. Steve Austin. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't buy the card for that, nothing will get you to. I know that and you know that, but the WWE doesn't want to acknowledge that. It seems they're trying to stack every match on the card with drawing power. (Drawing power in there eyes) Like I said before, you keep holding out on these pushes, they will never get done. They've been holding out on these pushes for a while already. I'm pretty sure they're not going to get done. These are just other examples of people getting over when it wasn't planned and then the rug gets pulled from under them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted February 7, 2003 There ready to main event as wrestlers, but they haven't been built up that way. Booker is still a loser as a singles wrestler, never having a big win over anyone, and he only held the tag titles for two weeks and that was because Golddust cheated. He's been just sitting around too long with no direction for them to just go in and thrust him up there. This case is only magnified for RVD, who had a strong push at the start, then a de-push, then stagnant mid-card work, then a push only to be proven he wasn't at Trips level, and back to the tag division. These guys need work on their credibility (whereas RVD has some, Booker has less than zero) and they need some strong wins. That's why I think they should come off WrestleMania with the momentum, beating Kane and Golddust respectively. Booker's hardly been tested as a face singles player (in the WWE), unfortunately, and the world title at WrestleMania against Triple H in a slow paced match is not the place to do that. It's crash and burn. RVD might have a chance but they really need to hit the reset button on what they've done with him, start from block A (Kane) and head up the ladder. Maybe even turn him heel. It's an unfortunate but Book needs some strong wins and credibility and RVD's been floating so long, unless he can add a lot of depth like Jericho did, he needs to be re-tooled and they have to set him back up again. When you miss out on pushing these guys when they should have been pushed, it's going to take much more than a month to prepare them for the biggest match and wins of their respective careers to that point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest THE MIGHTY THOR Report post Posted February 8, 2003 Yup you are right, RVD is not at Trip's level, in the suckittude level that is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
