Good matches that....

TheOriginalOrangeGoblin · February 12, 2003

Yah I was shocked at how good Flair/McMahon was too.

February 12, 2003

I second Austin/Show from before Mania 15.

Austin is the only wrestler I know of that can have good matches with Big Show.

TheOriginalOrangeGoblin · February 12, 2003

Show had a *** match with Sting(Wight's best match ever) at Slamboree 1996.

February 12, 2003

No that was the Giant. The difference is about 75 pounds in the wrong places, a lack of motivation and decreased agility.

TheOriginalOrangeGoblin · February 12, 2003

Ahhh ok I thought you meant Paul wight in general not just as The Big Show. But yha as Show his best is the Austin match.

February 12, 2003

I thought he had potential when he started. He was pretty lean for a huge guy. That's all gone now, of course.

TheOriginalOrangeGoblin · February 12, 2003

Well when he first debuted he seemed like one of the best giants in a long time since he was pretty carryable(as doen by Sting and even Luger) and very charismatic.

Ofcourse once WCW had him smoking on screen taht was all gone.

TheOriginalOrangeGoblin · February 12, 2003

Too lazy to edit so I wanna add two matches.

Lawrence Taylor vs Bam Bam Bigelow, WM11

Not great at all but ocnsidering the people involved shockingly decent. Great heat and a good agnle helped this make WM11 go form a bad WM to a average one.

Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs Steve McMichael & Kevin Greene, Great American Bash 1996

I know Flair and Arn are involved but look on theo ther side. Greene didn't embarass himself and it features one of the best heel turns in WCW history. Plus it features an awesome Horsemen beatdown of Ranyd Savage.

February 13, 2003

Booker T/Sting vs Road Warriors at Uncensored with the doomsday cage match was another

February 17, 2003

Bigelow/Headshrinkers vs. Tatanka/Smoking Gunns from 93 Summerslam.

The second best match on the card. I call it right around ***ish, which is way more than I would've expected.

By the way, to those that have been pimping that show, go back and watch it, because it BLOWS. Bodies/Steiners is good shit, around ***1/2 by my count, the 6-man was ok, but everything else was pathetic. Taker/Gonzalez was -***, Lex/Yoko was a straight-up DUD bordering on worse, Janetty/Borga was a total squash, the opener was about a 1/4*, and Michaels/Perfect was just brutally bad with absolutely no pacing or flow whatsoever. *1/2.

Not to mention the fact that the two singles defenses ended in cop-out finishes on the second biggest show of the year. Yes sir, 93 Summerslam blows dogs for quarters.

February 17, 2003

I've watched it many times AoO. It's a terrific show like all the Summerslams are.

Taker v. Gonzalez was awful but not as bad as I thought it would be.

Yoko v. Luger was pretty decent as they kept the rest holds to a minimum and each guy busted ass to make the match decent.

HBK v. Perfect was decent but albeit dissapointing. HBK jumping on Perfect's back and Perfect yelling: OH GODDAMNIT is great.

The stuff with Bret. King and Doink is awesome and worth the price of the tape alone.

Overall it's not a wrestling exhibition but it's a fun show and one of the first tapes I ever bought. I still watch it one or twice a year.

February 17, 2003

The stuff with Bret. King and Doink is awesome and worth the price of the tape alone.

I thought Bobby Heenan's commentary on that match was great. "That's the King Dammit!"

Goldberg v. DDP was decent.

TAKA v. HHH

Benoit v. Regal from the Pillman show. The greatest match I've ever seen live. Considering that Regal was just coming back I didn't expect much from it.

February 18, 2003

Juventud Guerrera vs. Blitzkrieg from WCW Spring Stampede '99. Both are really good cruiserweight stars, but WCW put them in the opening match so I'm sure they didn't expect them to put on a match that pretty much outshined the entire PPV. Spring Stampede '99 as a whole was a surprise, probably one of WCW's last great PPVs.

SS 99 SUCKED BALLS...

February 18, 2003

Juventud Guerrera vs. Blitzkrieg from WCW Spring Stampede '99. Both are really good cruiserweight stars, but WCW put them in the opening match so I'm sure they didn't expect them to put on a match that pretty much outshined the entire PPV. Spring Stampede '99 as a whole was a surprise, probably one of WCW's last great PPVs.

SS 99 SUCKED BALLS...

Nope, it didn't. Benoit/Malenko vs. Saturn/Raven was better than anything else produced in America that year.

February 18, 2003

Bob, are you drunk? That show had two decent matches, an entertaining Bret/Lawler bit, but the rest was full of dull filler and non-finishes.

Eh, maybe my standards are quite different, but I don't see how Taker/Gonzalez can possibly even remotely be considered to be even a DUD, let alone in positive stars. GG's "forearms" couldn't break a potato chip, and the match was basically them just lumbering around. How is that NOT brutally bad?

Luger/Yoko was just them doing sloppy moves, and no amount of effort can fix that. Not to mention the fact that it ended on a countout. Why not just have Yoko pin Lex? They obviously weren't going to do anything worthwhile with him anyway.

Bret/Doink/Lawler was fun for what it was, but the Bret/Doink match portion was pretty lackluster considering how good Bret was at that point. The Lawler match was all stalling until Bret beat his ass. Ok for an angle, but as a match, just plain bad. I didn't care for that feud at all, as Bret should've been doing so much more at that point. Why not give him the belt immediately after gaining momentum from KOTR as opposed to sticking him in a feud with a geriatric Lawler? Sure it drew plenty of heat and was fun, but Bret could've done that with anyone at that point.

HBK/Perfect is a whole other ball of wax, as they basically went in promising to give the fans a classic, which was a brutal failure. It wasn't even a fraction as good as Perfect's match at KOTR with Bret a couple months prior. Both guys just did their moves, didn't bother selling worth a crap, a few blown spots, and the pace and flow was totally out the window. The fact that they didn't connect at all during the match which led to a pointless non-finish just puts it on the level of meandering Raw crapola, only with workers I otherwise enjoy. The fact that they were capable of so much more just makes it that much WORSE to me.

Aside from the two good matches I previously mentioned, everything else is pretty clearly filler in my eyes. DiBiase looked really bad in the opener, and Razor wasn't anything special yet, and the Borga squash was totally pointless and dull.

The show didn't hold a candle to the Summerslam a year prior.

February 18, 2003

Sorry AoO I don't drink- I legit loved Summerslam 1993 and it turned me into a Summerslam mark. (Summerslam is my favourite PPV)

Taker v. Gonzales sucked but it was much better then their Wrestlemania match and well- it's not like they promised you a **** classic.

Speaking of matches where they promised you a ***** classic-

Okay- the match is not as good as it should have been and I blame that on Hennig's back being fucked and HBK being fat and lazy. That said the match is decent.

They didn't want Yoko to pin Lex because then Lex woud like the BIGGEST loser ever. They figured a countout victory would add more to the chase. It didn't but I can understand why they did it.

Bret v. Lawler v. Doink is great stuff. I don't see why Bret not fighting for a title hurts a match. In fact it got Bret more over as a face and probably helped his career. I thought the angle was terrific as

1)Bret became more over as a face

2)Jerry Lawler became the most hated man ever

3)Doink became the second most hated man ever

Bret v. Doink was alright but I loved King v. Bret. King uses all his cheap heel tactics to get over and then Bret is like: Fuck this shit and beats his ass locking in the Sharpshooter forever.

How can you not love that? Couple with that some great commentary and a hilarious King promo and you have one great fucking angle.

Borga v. Jannetty wasn't pointless at all since they were trying to get Borga over as a heel and what better then to squash a recent I-C champ.

Agreed that Razor v. Dibiase wasn't anything special but again- I think Ted was pretty banged up and burnt out.

Summerslam 93 is not a wrestling masterpiece but it's a fun card with some good matches and one terrific angle.

February 18, 2003

Bob, are you drunk? That show had two decent matches, an entertaining Bret/Lawler bit, but the rest was full of dull filler and non-finishes.

Eh, maybe my standards are quite different, but I don't see how Taker/Gonzalez can possibly even remotely be considered to be even a DUD, let alone in positive stars. GG's "forearms" couldn't break a potato chip, and the match was basically them just lumbering around. How is that NOT brutally bad?

Luger/Yoko was just them doing sloppy moves, and no amount of effort can fix that. Not to mention the fact that it ended on a countout. Why not just have Yoko pin Lex? They obviously weren't going to do anything worthwhile with him anyway.

Bret/Doink/Lawler was fun for what it was, but the Bret/Doink match portion was pretty lackluster considering how good Bret was at that point. The Lawler match was all stalling until Bret beat his ass. Ok for an angle, but as a match, just plain bad. I didn't care for that feud at all, as Bret should've been doing so much more at that point. Why not give him the belt immediately after gaining momentum from KOTR as opposed to sticking him in a feud with a geriatric Lawler? Sure it drew plenty of heat and was fun, but Bret could've done that with anyone at that point.

HBK/Perfect is a whole other ball of wax, as they basically went in promising to give the fans a classic, which was a brutal failure. It wasn't even a fraction as good as Perfect's match at KOTR with Bret a couple months prior. Both guys just did their moves, didn't bother selling worth a crap, a few blown spots, and the pace and flow was totally out the window. The fact that they didn't connect at all during the match which led to a pointless non-finish just puts it on the level of meandering Raw crapola, only with workers I otherwise enjoy. The fact that they were capable of so much more just makes it that much WORSE to me.

Aside from the two good matches I previously mentioned, everything else is pretty clearly filler in my eyes. DiBiase looked really bad in the opener, and Razor wasn't anything special yet, and the Borga squash was totally pointless and dull.

The show didn't hold a candle to the Summerslam a year prior.

Two decent matches, eh?

The card:

Ramon-DiBiase (7:30) *1/2 - Blah opener, which was essentially DiBiase's last hurrah.

Steiners-Bodies (9:28) ***1/4 - Pretty good match. Probably the Steiner's second best WWF match. Cornette was gold at ringside and even the prematch "Steiner family" interview was quite funny. I would consider this decent.

HBK-Perfect (11:18) **1/4 - Definitely disappointing, but the match still feel into the decent category. Look at that, we have reached two decent matches already.

Kid-IRS (5:45) * - I didn't really see the point in IRS going over here. Either way, it was kept short like the opener so whatever.

The Jerry Lawler storyline. This was a classic. No doubt about it.

Hart-Doink (8:56) *** - Fun storyline-driven match. Without a doubt "decent".

Hart-Lawler (6:33) *** - Another fun match. While watching it you could feel the intensity while Bret finally got to beat the shit out of Lawler, only to get the decision reversed in the end. As for the finish, I thought it was great because it prolonged a compelling feud. As for Bret not being Champion, believe it or not Yokozuna was drawing pretty well at the top. Plus Bret would get his shot starting at the Royal Rumble. Every main event star isn't in the Title picture at the same time. It just doesn't work that way. Like Bob said, this feud solidified both Bret and Lawler as mega stars. Oh yeah, I thought this also fell into "decent" category at the very least.

Borga-Jannetty (5:15) 1/2* - Yes it was crap, but it was quick crap.

Undertaker-Gonzalez (8:04) -* - It wasn't WrestleMania IX bad, but it still sucked big time. The only plus was that the Giant would never be seen again.

Gunns/Tanaka-Shrinkers/Bigelow (11:15) ***1/2 - I think everyone agrees that this was a very good match that didn't have any right to be. After saying that, I believe this exceeds the "decent" category.

Yokozuna-Luger (17:57) ** - I thought this was OK, decent, unoffensive, etc. The finish made sense to a certain extent. At least the WWF stuck to their guns and had Luger co-win the Rumble, thus ensuring he got "one last shot". Although, Luger's celebration was definitely over the top.

Overall (from my original review): Aside from the lame booking at the end, this was a kick-ass show. Easily the best WWF PPV of the year and it only falls behind Superbrawl 3 as the best overall PPV of 1993. If you haven’t seen this show yet, you should really check it out. Even if only for the Lawler-Doink-Hart saga.

My count says that there were six decent or better matches on this card.

Also, why do you have to compare this show to SummerSlam 1992? Going by that logic, if any show doesn't exceed the previous year's attempt it means nothing.

February 18, 2003

Heh, I wasn't totally insinuating that you were tipsy, bob, it's just that alcohol can make wrestling better than it has any right to be. I never touch the stuff myself.

Bret v. Lawler v. Doink is great stuff. I don't see why Bret not fighting for a title hurts a match. In fact it got Bret more over as a face and probably helped his career. I thought the angle was terrific as

1)Bret became more over as a face

2)Jerry Lawler became the most hated man ever

3)Doink became the second most hated man ever

Bret v. Doink was alright but I loved King v. Bret. King uses all his cheap heel tactics to get over and then Bret is like: Fuck this shit and beats his ass locking in the Sharpshooter forever.

How can you not love that? Couple with that some great commentary and a hilarious King promo and you have one great fucking angle.

Point by point: Bret not fighting for a title doesn't hurt the match itself, but I find it bothersome that he was stuck in THAT feud rather than being in the main event when he was clearly being groomed for a long run up there, and had already been there once. He was the most over face in the company, and IMO, LAWLER was more over because of Bret's heat, not the other way around. They could've made another main eventer EASILY by playing another young heel off of Bret's momentum. Lawler was just incidental.

Doink didn't do anything worthwhile after this, unless you want to count the nonsense with the midgets, and a brutally horrid "comedy" match at survivor series, so his involvement here didn't lead to anything big anyway.

The match itself was nothing special in terms of work. Lawler was just doing his thing, which consists of cheap memphis heat which gets old fast, then Bret whips him. Why bother with the stalling and nonsense prior to their match? By that, I don't mean the promo, because that was without a doubt the best part of this whole segment. I'm talking about all the lazy shit Lawler ALWAYS does in the early stage of a match. I obviously wasn't expecting a lucha libre high-flying masterpiece, but come on...

In a nutshell: Good angle, good payoff, bad match.

With Shawn/Perfect, Hennig's back was dinged up, but he had a match with Bret only a couple months prior that was every bit of **** stars at KOTR, why didn't it detract from anything then? I agree that his back was fucked, but that's not a good excuse to use in this particular match. 93 was also Shawn's worst year, aside from the present, that I can remember, so IMO, this was a recipe for disaster in hindsight.

91 Perfect, and 92 Shawn, and this would've fucking rocked, but we're talking 93, where Hennig was messed up, and Shawn was a mess in different ways. That said, they didn't work around their limitations, which both guys are generally exceptional at.

Look at Shawn vs. Bret at 92 Series. Bret carried a more haphazard Shawn to the best match between the two, but Shawn busted ass not to go into a spot frenzy. He worked a smarter match, and as a result, it ruled.

Look at Bret vs. Perfect from 91 Summerslam. Hennig's back was ROYALLY fucked in that match, and it still didn't stop him from being part of a **** killer match that launched Bret into the big picture as a singles star.

In 93, it seemed that they basically forgot all of that, and had a trainwreck as a result.

As far as Borga/Janetty goes, No one bought Janetty against anyone other that Shawn, and that was due only to their past history. After HBK beat him decisively, Marty was done. A Sacrificial lamb to the new evil foreign menace. No way could he have come back and mattered, Borga or no Borga.

DiBiase was majorly messed up in his match with Razor, as it was his last WWF match and all. Ramon wasn't quite busting ass yet, and as a result, wasn't any good.

I think it's a show that's more rooted in nostalgia than anything else, with a damn good tag match, and another solid one. When looked at against the previous year, though, there's absolutely no comparison.

February 18, 2003

It doesn't have to exceed the previous year's show, I was just stating that the 92 show was infinitely better.

Our definitions of decent differ quite a bit.

Here's how I rated it:

Ramon-DiBiase (7:30) 1/4* Dull, bad opener where DiBiase looked old and tired. Razor tried somewhat, but wasn't anything special yet.

Steiners-Bodies (9:28) ***1/2-Very good tag action with excellent double team stuff from the Bodies. Cornette was in all his glory, the Steiners busted ass and were over huge.

HBK-Perfect (11:18) *1/2. Reasons state previously. Both men looked bad, no flow to the match, botched spots, non finish. Sucked.

Kid-IRS (5:45) DUD-Just a squash with some token jobber offense from Kid.

The Jerry Lawler storyline. Marvelous heel promo.

Hart-Doink (8:56) ** - Fun storyline-driven match. Without a doubt "decent". Agreed.

Hart-Lawler (6:33) **- Dumb stalling crap from Lawler as usual, Bret kicked his ass. That was pretty much it.

Borga-Jannetty (5:15) DUD-Shitty squash, and being short doesn't make it any better.

Undertaker-Gonzalez (8:04) -** A complete and utter abortion with both men having no idea what to do, just lumbering around "punching" each other.

Gunns/Tanaka-Shrinkers/Bigelow (11:15) ***-Better than it had any right to be. Definitely decent.

Yokozuna-Luger (17:57) 1/2*-way too damn long, neither man did anything of note, Yoko and Lex were both totally GASSED to the maximum, non finish.

Like I said before, two decent matches with a fun angle. Pretty bad overall, but a bright spot in a terrible, awful year.

February 20, 2003

TAKA v. HHH

why did this have no right to be good? TAKA is a damn good wrestler who just never got a chance to shine in the fed, and triple h was on the streak of his life.

February 21, 2003

why did this have no right to be good? TAKA is a damn good wrestler who just never got a chance to shine in the fed, and triple h was on the streak of his life.

Did you expect the Champ to put on a good match with a low card cruiserweight? I'm well aware of TAKA's skill but didn't feel this match would do much to showcase it.

Even when TAKA was the Lightheavyweight Champ and at his most over he was getting squashed by Jeff Jarrett.

February 21, 2003

Big Vito V Reno at WCW Sin 2001.

At this time, i hadn't seen either of these guys before their WCW stints and i didn't like any of their matches that i can recall, so this was a huge surprise to me that this was decent.

February 21, 2003

Virgil vs Ted Dibiase from Summerslam 91 was an outstanding match especially considering that Virgil hadn't really wrestled before.

February 21, 2003

Virgil had worked in either Memphis or Florida under the name Soul Train Jones before becoming Virgil.

February 21, 2003

Well a Mr.Perfect match I always liked for some reason was his match with Lex Luger at WWF WrestleMania IX,I know most people thought it stunk but I really enjoyed it and the Virgil Vs.Dibiase match at WWF SummerSlam 1991 was a great match and a lot better than their match at WWF WrestleMania VII.

Thanks.

February 26, 2003

What about Vince and Stone Cold from the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre?

I think the Undertaker/Jeff Hardy ladder match was a lot better than I expected, but that was mostly because of the crowd.

February 26, 2003

Test/albert/trish vs hardyz/lita from fully loaded 2000 is a damn fine opening match, I kinda liked albert back then (BACK THEN) and there was a minimum of fuckups from all the other idiots involved. It was one of trish's first matches too, she did look pretty lost but she didn't fuck anything up. And I REALLY LIKED BROCK/HOGAN, DAMMIT.

February 27, 2003

Another match that was much better than it should have been was X-Pac vs. Shane McMahon from Wrestlemania XV.

February 27, 2003

"I think the Undertaker/Jeff Hardy ladder match was a lot better than I expected, but that was mostly because of the crowd. "

I agree with the 1st part..i actually thought Jeff might get the win..i know that makes me an idiot cause Taker wasnt losing..but i enjoyed it..it was one of those few matches that i really got caught up in the suspension of disbelief

March 1, 2003

I'm going to be forced to metion Taker/Diesel from WM12, really good match considering the guys involved I thought

Raven and Rhyno (although they don't suck) surprised me by bringing the house down at Backlash 01 too

Good matches that....

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