Michael Jackson: Declaration of J. Chandler...

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Norm MacDonald said he was a homosexual pedohphile. That's the end of it.

 

Next argument please.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

I don't recall that ever happening, but I can see how a situation like that is possible. I mean, if your friend was getting tipped off for millions im sure you'd want in too.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[Guest bob_barron]

Norm MacDonald said he was a homosexual pedohphile. That's the end of it.

 

Next argument please.

Hmmm- that's a good point

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Norm MacDonald said he was a homosexual pedohphile. That's the end of it.

 

Next argument please.

Hmmm- that's a good point

Yes it is, however just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. That works both ways, of course.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Does anyone find Jackson's new material good or are people just fans of his old stuff.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

I like some of Invincible..like 'You Rock My World', that's a pretty kick-ass song.

 

However, I'm a much bigger fan of his earlier stuff, specifically Off The Wall, Thriller & Bad, all being some of my favourite albums ever.

 

His latest album is good, it's just people expect the impossible when they hear the name Michael Jackson.

[Guest papacita]

I never really cared for "You Rock My World", but "Butterflies" is a nice song. That's all I've heard from his latest album.

[Guest EricMM]

Jackson looks like an alien.

 

He looked normal, and then he got 6000 surguries done, and now he looks like an alien.

 

You can debate that he is a pedophile. Personally I believe that he is. But I think it's clear that he's a warped individual, if not just because of what he's done to himself, then what has been done to him. Someone who has been so seriously warped should not be spending nights alone with children.

 

And you could find plenty of parents willing to sell out anything for money. This argues both of our points really since they could have forced that kid to like to get the 25 mil or they could have let their kids be molested.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Can I play the "Devil's Advocate" for a sec?

 

Some might argue that the reason the statement doesn't read like a 13 year old is because the lawyer wrote it based on the kid's testamony.

 

Some also might argue that it was MJ that wanted the settlement so that this wouldn't be dragged out into the public anymore than it already was.

 

[/Devil's Advocate mode]

 

Now with that said.........I don't really care either way. It's not something I need to lose sleep over.

[Guest DrTom]

Ignorance seems to be a detriment of quite a few in here...

Physician, heal thyself.

 

1. Judging from your logic here, your comfortable with condeming those who are mentally sick for performing serious crimes.

Absolutely. It’s because I believe that “mental sickness” is, in almost all cases, a complete and utter crock of shit. Shrinks decide on behaviors they don’t like, invent syndromes relating to them, then prescribe drugs to prevent people from behaving in the manner they don’t like. Have you read the DSM? Have you taken courses in psychology? Have you researched the APA? I’ve done them all, and believe me when I say there are a lot of turds swimming in that bowl. Back to the issue, any adult who commits a crime should be held responsible for it. Double standards are unconstitutional; that’s a legal point, not a statement of sympathy or its lack.

 

2. Bullshit it is meaningless, I'm sure if you had experienced half of what HE has over the last 40 years then you too, would be a very different person.

Since I haven’t, I guess we’ll just never know, will we?

 

3. Your obviously rather ignorant to the affect bad childhoods have on people, and I'm guessing you've never experienced one either, which would explain your instant distaste to those who use that 'excuse'.

You’re a bad guesser.

 

My “instant distaste” for that excuse (and yes, it IS an excuse), is that it’s a cop-out designed to claim that someone isn’t responsible for their own actions. That’s bullshit. If you do something in conscious action, then you’re responsible for it. I don’t care if your father cuffed you around when you were a kid, or your mommy made you watch scary movies until you cried. Again, double standards are unconstitutional. If one person commits a crime, he gets off because he had a “rough childhood;” another person could commit the same crime and get no such free pass because he had an easier life. It’s a festering pool of shit, lad, and I can’t believe you don’t recognize it as one.

 

If you knew anything on the subject at hand...

Don’t presume what I know or don’t.

 

You took what i wrote out of context. I was using that as an example to showcase the legal document as childish, poorly constructed and fake.

Fair enough.

 

6. Your ignorance astounds me, honestly. I've already addressed this, but if your so closed minded that you wont accept the fact that child beating is NOT A FUCKING EXCUSE then your beyond help, and i dont want to talk to a person who thinks this, as they obviously have never experienced it themselves. Death and being beaten by your father are two TOTALLY different things, dont compare apples and oranges.

Christ, get a grip on yourself. It’s unbecoming for you to froth at the mouth so much. There, there, put a nice Beethoven CD in, sip some wine... isn’t that better. All right, now to your “point.” Cop-out claims like bad childhoods and past parental abuse are absolutely an excuse, which I stated a couple paragraphs ago. Now, to your next statement, concerning the “apples and oranges.” I’m comparing apples and apples here. Your argument is that people who haven’t experienced the things Michael Jackson has experienced cannot argue them, nor their effects on him, meaningfully. Tell me if I’m wrong there, because that’s what I perceive it to be. Stripping the specificity away, we’re left with the claim that you can’t argue something meaningfully unless you’ve experienced it. That is patently untrue. My example was death: I’ve never experienced it, but I can still have a discussion about it. If anything, I think a person can argue something better if they haven’t experienced it (presuming they still know something about it, of course), simply because they don’t have the emotional attachment to it that can muddy the debating waters.

 

The ONLY party to say Jackson did anything wrong was the 'victim's' parents. Not ONE child came forward and said Jackson had EVER done anything wrong to them, they found NOTHING in his house and the parents of the children staying there spoke in volumes of Jackson's generousity and compassion. Yep, he's a monster alright, ain't he?

I’ve never said he’s a monster. I think it’s weird as hell that he sleeps in the same bed with children not his own, but that doesn’t make him a monster. What I said is that it’s entirely possible the kid was the originator of the lies, his parents believed him, and it snowballed from there. It’s also possible the parents were the liars, and used their son and his friendship with Jackson as a vehicle for getting rich. And, as much as you might like to avoid it, it’s also a possibility that Jackson did the things he’s accused of. I don’t know what happened, since I wasn’t there and I’m not privy to any information that’s not available to the public at large. I’m completely indifferent when it comes to Jackson, so I can acknowledge all the possibilities, while you seem to dismiss out of hand the chance that he might be guilty.

 

9. Go back and find where i said Jackson was perfect and I'll shut up.

Ok.

It's truly sad that a person perfectly innocent who is trying to make the world a better place is the person who cops the most bullshit from everyone.

Logically, no one can be “perfectly” anything unless they’re perfect. Maybe it’s splitting hairs, but claiming someone is “perfectly innocent” is absurd to begin with.

 

I never said that stories hailing his accomplishments would be WRONG, i said they'd be hypocritical.

Fair enough. Not everyone in the press is a Jackson basher, so not all of them would be hypocritical. However, if his biggest detractors in life trip over their own feet in the rush to praise him after his death, then yes, that’s definitely some grade-A hypocrisy.

 

11. Different person, very different circumstances, next please..

Of course he’s a different person. Your claim, though, was that “Jackson has been a musical phenom since the age of 12 and his star only got brighter and brighter. No one else has had their entire life given to them THAT way,” and I don’t think that’s true. Tiger Woods was a prodigy long before the age of 12, has had a lot of hype surrounding him since his high school days, became rich before ever playing a round of pro golf, and has been one of the most popular subjects in the sports media since he started on the Tour. He had his “entire life given to him” at a young age, also, and he’s played it out on the public stage ever since. He’s much younger than Jackson, so how he copes with everything over the long haul is still unestablished, but there’s definitely a comparison to be drawn between Jackson and Tiger Woods.

 

12. All children involved with Jackson are there on their parents permission. You wouldnt let your kids stay somewhere without your permission would you?

Of course not. However, not all parents are responsible, and – again, as much as you might hate to admit it – there’s always the chance Jackson is lying. Maybe he’s not (and I sincerely do hope that’s the case), but it’s always possible that he is.

 

However, if you ask an ignorant individual like you, he's old therefore no problem he's encounterd in the past MATTERS and every child he invites into his house is there because they ran away from home and are about to become Jackson's sex toys.

You should enter the Olympics. As well as you jump to conclusions, I’m sure you’d do even better with a running start and some Spandex. You’re grossly and deliberately misrepresenting what I said to make your own weak arguments look better. Splendid. Somehow, I also apparently concluded that Jackson was a chronic pedophile who encouraged children to leave their homes and become his concubines, but I can’t recall saying anything remotely so preposterous. I’ll make a deal with you, Skippy: since you do a poor enough job putting words in your own mouth, I’ll take care of putting the words in mine.

 

Im surprised at half of what you said, because i always viewed you as a very open-minded individual who was willing to see things from multiple angles do to your diverse line of thought.

 

Y’know, I really didn’t want to be patronizing or condescending, but your rather execrable attitude demanded it. Despite what you apparently think of me, I’m quite open-minded. However, I’ve seen and read about a lot of very shady things in the field of psychiatry, and because of that, I tend to view apologist screed like yours as a cheap cop-out full of tepid excuses. It’s nothing personal, though: I don’t invest my ego in the things I write here, so I’ll have no problem being completely amiable outside this discussion.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

On the mental illness note, here's something interesting. (And before you start pointing fingers, I got this off of a recent episode of Oz, but it's still interesting)

 

They say it's wrong to execute the mentally retarded, but each state has it's own criterion of what constitutes retardation. So the exact same guy commiting the exact same act could find himself in the chair in one state, and have his life spared in another. Life and death decided by geography. Fucked up, yeah.

 

edit: I've realized that seemed completely off topic, so I'll clarify that it was in support of Tom's claim that mental illness is hardly legitimate. I still feel the same about Jacko, however.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Watching the old footage of the Jackson 5. Man could that kid sing. He was a great talent.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Okay, Dr.Tom if we keep going we'll write a novel.

 

I respect your opinion, you have it.

 

I have mine, you've shown you can accept parts of it.

 

That's all i care about right now, i don't have 3 hours to 10,000 words countering your arguements, as neither of us will achieve anything, unless Michael Jackson is secretly a smark..

 

Stranger things have happend, i mean, they let IDRM in here.

 

UYI

[Guest Retro Rob]

Norm MacDonald said he was a homosexual pedohphile. That's the end of it.

 

Next argument please.

Hmmm- that's a good point

Yes it is, however just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. That works both ways, of course.

I think they were being sarcastic.