Rob Liefeld

[Guest Luke Cage]

I'd like to go on record stating that I hope this doesn't degenerate into a bashing thread.

 

I lurk on a lot of comic boards, and Liefeld seems to inspire a passionate response from both fans and detractors, but I don't remember reading anyone share why they liked his work.

 

Having said that, Can someone who has bought books by RL, please share why his work appealed/appeals to you?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any reponses!

[Guest crandamaniac]

I've personally never liked his work. His characters just seem like they're too overly muscled, and he piles on so much crap on them, it doesn't look realistic. Just look at his designs for Cable. The dude looks like he has a piano on each of his shoulders or something.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I'd like to go on record stating that I hope this doesn't degenerate into a bashing thread.

 

I lurk on a lot of comic boards, and Liefeld seems to inspire a passionate response from both fans and detractors, but I don't remember reading anyone share why they liked his work.

 

Having said that, Can someone who has bought books by RL, please share why his work appealed/appeals to you?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any reponses!

Come on, you HAD to know that this is going to become a bashing thread. If you start a thread about an IMAGE founder who's name ISN't Lee or Larsen, you will get tons of hatemail about that guy.

[Guest starvenger]

I'd like to go on record stating that I hope this doesn't degenerate into a bashing thread.

 

I lurk on a lot of comic boards, and Liefeld seems to inspire a passionate response from both fans and detractors, but I don't remember reading anyone share why they liked his work.

 

Having said that, Can someone who has bought books by RL, please share why his work appealed/appeals to you?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any reponses!

Good luck on not having this turn into Liefeld bashing. I remember the flame wars waaaaay back in 96 on the rac-marvel newsgroup about him. Yes, I was using the "starvenger" id back then as well...

 

OK, let's see if I can stay on topic without too much bashing...

 

I think Rob's art can be condensed down to three things: boobs, gear and dynamic poses (which is an oxymoron, but I think you know what I mean). He was listed as a co-plotter on New Mutants/X-Force, but it would seem that Nicieza carried his ass in that regard based on the higher quality stories that were produced after Rob left the book.

 

To be honest though, I think that his popularity came down to being in the right place at the right time. New Mutants was not a popular book, but the X-Tinction Agenda made you pick up NM and X-Factor, and Rob's take on overly muscled mutants took off.

[Guest Sassquatch]

I'd like to go on record stating that I hope this doesn't degenerate into a bashing thread.

 

I lurk on a lot of comic boards, and Liefeld seems to inspire a passionate response from both fans and detractors, but I don't remember reading anyone share why they liked his work.

 

Having said that, Can someone who has bought books by RL, please share why his work appealed/appeals to you?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any reponses!

 

I'm still surprised that fans are still mentioning his name.

 

[Guest Luke Cage]

He has a new version of his Youngblood property that has been stirring up talk on other boards.

The fans who still follow him defend him so vigorously. I'd like to know why he inspires such loyalty.

A little more background.

I am aware of the potential for bashing in a thread like this. Perhaps I should have said bashers welcome, but I'm looking for fans...

I'm still looking for people who buy/bought his books to share why his work grabbed them.

[Guest Luke Cage]

I'd like to go on record stating that I hope this doesn't degenerate into a bashing thread.

 

I lurk on a lot of comic boards, and Liefeld seems to inspire a passionate response from both fans and detractors, but I don't remember reading anyone share why they liked his work.

 

Having said that, Can someone who has bought books by RL, please share why his work appealed/appeals to you?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any reponses!

Good luck on not having this turn into Liefeld bashing. I remember the flame wars waaaaay back in 96 on the rac-marvel newsgroup about him. Yes, I was using the "starvenger" id back then as well...

 

OK, let's see if I can stay on topic without too much bashing...

 

I think Rob's art can be condensed down to three things: boobs, gear and dynamic poses (which is an oxymoron, but I think you know what I mean). He was listed as a co-plotter on New Mutants/X-Force, but it would seem that Nicieza carried his ass in that regard based on the higher quality stories that were produced after Rob left the book.

 

To be honest though, I think that his popularity came down to being in the right place at the right time. New Mutants was not a popular book, but the X-Tinction Agenda made you pick up NM and X-Factor, and Rob's take on overly muscled mutants took off.

The boob fetish is a good angle. He certainly emphasized exaggeration of the female form at a time when superhero cheesecake ruled the day.

The weapons fetish is another good point. There was a time when every comic character seemed to toting around a big energy gun...even the Hulk!

I forgot all about the big X-cross overs...that makes a LOT of sense. Thank you for the reply.

[Guest Annoyed Grunt]

I remember liking him during the New Mutants/X-factor run. Of course, I was 10 at the time, so I would have liked any comic with tits and guns.

[Guest starvenger]

I forgot all about the big X-cross overs...that makes a LOT of sense. Thank you for the reply.

Hey, no prob. I hope you find some actual Liefeld fans, though...

[Guest Vyce]

Come on, you HAD to know that this is going to become a bashing thread. If you start a thread about an IMAGE founder who's name ISN't Lee or Larsen, you will get tons of hatemail about that guy.

I'd just like to throw out that I hate Larsen sooooo much more than I have ever hated Liefeld.

[Guest starvenger]

I'd just like to throw out that I hate Larsen sooooo much more than I have ever hated Liefeld.

I'm not a big fan of Larsen's work either, but I enjoy it when he shoots off on whatever...

[Guest starvenger]

Via Movie Poop Shoot, I found something that may explain some things...

 

"I was pretty much coked out for the better part of two years before I got clean, everybody at Extreme was dopin' it up. The place was a wall-to-wall drugstore. How do you think we all stayed up for forty-eight hour binges getting all those books out?"

That was Rob Liefeld on the Millarworld forums. Or, presumably, it was Liefeld...

[Guest raptor]

I haven't heard a lot of people backing Rob Liefeld, and since I don't actively hate the guy, I was interested in finding a different spin. And then, my opinion column god, A.K. of Moviepoopshoot's Title Bout graced me with this gem (check the bold):

 

A recent quote by ROB LIEFELD: "I was pretty much coked out for the better part of two years before I got clean, everybody at Extreme was dopin' it up. The place was a wall-to-wall drugstore. How do you think we all stayed up for forty-eight hour binges getting all those books out?"

 

…I have to top that this week? How am I going to top that?

 

Okay, here’s where I lose every reader this column has: I don’t hate Rob Liefeld.

 

There, I’ve said it. I don’t hate the guy. And I grant you -- I don’t know him. It seems that people who have known him all hate the guy now -- all the Image founders, ex-Extreme employees, etc. As Dan Fraga once put it, in what I will contend forever is the greatest quote in comics history, “You hit me Rob, more than once, and yes I do forgive you. You have to remember that most of my decisions that I made around you were based on fear, not love after that point. I really was your bitch.”

 

I don’t like him, no, but I don’t hate him. I’m so ashamed. What’s the point of being a comic book fan if you’re not going to hate everything?

 

Hating Liefeld is your birthright. He doesn’t draw well, and his comic books didn’t have good writing… BASTARD. Everyone else in comics draws great and writes amazing, beautiful stories -- why can’t Liefeld? Everyone else is like some weird hybrid of Michelangelo and Shakespeare, but Liefeld’s bringing down the average.

 

Liefeld is like Gerardo (aka Rico Suave) or IN LIVING COLOR or rock cocaine -- fascinating reminders for me of the early 1990’s. The early 1990s, when any star-eyed kid who could cross-hatch past all sane reason could be a comic book superstar, regardless of lack of knowledge about anatomy or perspective or storytelling or responsible business practices or knowing what the words “getting all those books out” means (what is he talking about???) or what have you.

 

He doesn’t know anatomy? Well, shit, man, neither do I. When did everyone become fucking Quincy? Hey, Trapper John, if you purchased a comic called X-FORCE or YOUNGBLOOD, why the fuck were you were seriously expecting ANATOMY to begin with??? “The use of chiaruoscuro in BLOODPOOL was sorely lacking. It distracted from the textural qualities of the Rub the Blood covers.”

 

I mean, yeah, he just admitted that all those shitty, SHITTY comics were the product of a coke binge. Which was the only plausible explanation to begin with. This should be a slam dunk for me. But Liefeld was always Dirk Diggler -- we always knew he was Dirk Diggler. Dirk did the coke; so did Liefeld; so what? I think we’re all waiting to find out about Liefeld being in a house in the Valley at a drug deal gone wrong, with “Sister Christian” playing and some Chinese kid throwing firecrackers around. It’s only a matter of weeks at this point.

 

But no… I’m not keeping my end of the bargain. If you’re a comic book fan, you can’t actually LIKE anything or anyone in or near comic books. You can’t even not-hate it. You must hate everything. It’s the LAW. I could start complaining irrationally about the WEST COAST AVENGERS for another 30 pages, but as soon as you see me go easy on Liefeld, you’ll dismiss me as just another “peacenik” and that’ll be it for TITLE BOUT’s heyday, our salad days. The bling- bling lifestyle will end. Government will repossess my rollies.

 

I mean, maybe it’s weird I’m saying this because I’m not exactly writing the most positive column about comics ever. This is a pretty negative column. Is it the most negative? I hope not. Seriously. I wouldn’t be proud of it if it was. Shit, I wouldn’t be proud of it if it managed to cure a kid’s polio. If I ever admit to doing this column years from now, it’ll be after shock treatment to the genitals. But ranting about Liefeld… what would the point be? If you take it seriously enough to rant about it, then aren’t you a bigger joke than he is? (well, maybe that applies to all these books…)

 

Still, it’s gotten to the point that anytime I read the comic news, I find myself going, “Oh, that’s okay/boring news. I wonder how fans are going to tear that news apart” and then ghoulishly reading all the negative comments the news draws. Sometimes I read BORING news on purpose just to watch the negativity fly.

 

Fuck it -- I love the underdog, and who is a bigger underdog in comics than Rob Liefeld? Imagine if Liefeld were to put out his own personal FROM HELL. Tommorow. Imagine the steam that would pour out of people’s heads. It’d be as if the entire planet turned upside down. The only thing that unites all comic fans is their hatred for this guy -- imagine if we could rob them of that. Imagine the chaos.

 

So, in conclusion I don’t irrationally hate Rob Liefeld. I irrationally hate you. God, if only you were halfway cool…

[Guest raptor]

Oh, and just to show that A.K. is a great source of insight, he references an obscure Arn Anderson finisher in his column. I mean most people would say Spinebuster, but not A.K.

 

The guy who created this manga calls himself MONKEY PUNCH. That was his NAME. Don’t you wish comic creators in America did that? We’ve essentially turned them into professional wrestling characters, as is. All the columns and message boards and whatever -- they might as well be Arn Anderson at this point. ANDERSON FUN-FACT: Arn’s finishing move? The GOURDBUSTER. Top that with your comic books… Until Batman gourdbusts some gebroni, he’ll always be second-class to Arn… I don’t even know where the gourd is exactly, not anatomically speaking -- me and Rob Liefeld? Completely oblivious to the gourd. Still, I’d sure hate to have my gourd busted, or in any way be gourd-impaired…)

 

The GOURDBUSTER! There are so many people who’ve had long careers in comics who’ve never come up with anything half as delightful as GOURDBUSTER. Arn Anderson should be worshipped by these people, goddammit. An angry, vengeful, gourd-busting, sweaty god.

[Guest razazteca]

was he responsible for Savage Dragon or Wild Cats?

[Guest converge241]

hes awful

 

how many times has he relaunched Youngblood et all?

How many deadlines missed?

How many charcters look the same?

 

Hes a hack. the only good thing he ever did was getting Moore on Supreme and some of the other titles

 

"Fuck it -- I love the underdog, and who is a bigger underdog in comics than Rob Liefeld? Imagine if Liefeld were to put out his own personal FROM HELL. Tommorow. "

 

lol

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!

underdog does not equal idiot

 

i wouldnt rip his art style..ive never been a fan of it since i got exposed to it on New Mutants but some seem to like it

 

while running my comic store we used to have many hours of mirth thanks to Rob press releases or news

 

Larsen = dragon

Lee = Wildcats

[Guest HellSpawn]

(Hellspawn walks the aisle, spits water like HHH and finally speak)

 

I like some of his work.

 

(less than a second later, he has to use his teleporting powers to avoid the hellish bashing from his fellow forum pals)

 

 

I know his bodies are awful (just look at his feet and boobs), Capt. #1 was a bunch of pinups, and OMG, I dunno how many Youngblood #1 are out there, but still, I dont know why but I do like some of his work.

 

I like...

His X-Force

Deadpool

I like (lets say 5.5/6 of 10) Heroes Reborn Avengers #1

 

 

I mean, C'mon, he has to have something if Alex Ross and Alan Moore worked with him.

[Guest Sassquatch]

Rob is worthless today but he had a huge buzz in the early '90's when he actually looked like he had potnetial.

[Guest converge241]

"I mean, C'mon, he has to have something if Alex Ross and Alan Moore worked with him. "

 

yeah he had something allright --$$$$

 

 

i liked deadpool as well when he first appeared in NM98 or so

[Guest starvenger]

Here's the thing with Deadpool though. While Liefeld co-created the character, it was Nicieza that really helped make him popular.

 

Actually, that's the one thing that I can credit Rob with - he can (at times) come up with some pretty decent characters. The problem is that he doesn't have the ability to flesh them out, hence the need for guys like Moore and Nicieza to carry that load for him.

[Guest converge241]

i should have stated = visually liked Deadpool cause there wasnt a whole lotta depth when he showed up on that cover and interior with Gideon and Domino or whomever (shatterstar ?)

[Guest Sassquatch]

The shame of it all is that Marvel revamped/got rid of Deadpool and Cable just because they were Liesfeld creations which had Marvel pay Liesfeld a royalty's check whenever those two were in a book. Not to mention the original X-Force has slowly been erased out of history by Marvel since Quesada despises Rob so much.

 

It also doesn't surprise me that Rob did drugs but methinks in this case it is being used as his scapegoat.

 

Just saying.

[Guest starvenger]

It also doesn't surprise me that Rob did drugs but methinks in this case it is being used as his scapegoat.

 

Just saying.

Um, isn't that always the case with drugs?

[Guest Sassquatch]

In this case, Rob used drugs as the reason for why his career and work were sporadic and makes it seem like he did nothing wrong since "everyone else was doing them."

 

Rob isn't saying that drugs brought down his career later on. He is making them out as the sole reason for why he could never get his work done which ironic since Liesfeld has stated in the past how he never did do any "hard drugs" or do drugs "to the point of total burnout" which I find amusing.

 

Rob needs to get his lies straight.

[Guest Steviekick]

why I don't like Rob Liefeld...

* the faces of all of his characters are exactly the same

* he has no concept of body proportions

* all of his characters have the same musclebound/heavily armored look to their costumes

* variations of the three above

 

the best example of how much he sucks is in Avengers #1, where Scarlet Witch's costume changes every freaking costume~! WORST PENCILLER EVER~!

[Guest Luke Cage]

Rob L. kinda reminds me of Vanilla Ice or MC Hammer...very popular in their heyday, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would admit to every liking them these days.

After reading the posts here and elsewher, I think the following is true( no earth shattering revelation, mind you).

 

Mr Liefeld's initial appeal was due to his lack of finely honed talent...he drew comics like many of the 12-14 year old readers would have and in some cases, did. However, his books had lotsa action, lotsa weapons and highly detailed costumes. A poster here brought up the "hot babes and weapons" deal and it makes perfect sense to me.

He seemed to be a likable guy in interviews and had a kind of dopey charisma. Due to an appearance on a TV commercial he became a star of sorts. I remember one comic shop actually had his commerical playing on a loop...with people standing around watching it! He was also fortunate enough to be promoted to the moon by Marvel. "Hey, Marvel told he he's good, so he MUST be."

 

The people who rail against him so passionately now seem to be former fans who either...

Feel betrayed by Rob due to his lack of focus. After awhile even the most ardent fan will turn on a creator who spins his wheels or does not make good on promises.

OR, readers whose tastes have changed/evolved to the point where they have lost appreciation for his style.

 

Am I/was I a fan? No. I understand that art is subjective, so I'll just say I didn't like Rob's style. Nor was I a fan of his penchant for swiping from other creators.

 

Thanks to those who took the time to respond. It was fun reading the posts!

[Guest starvenger]

The shame of it all is that Marvel revamped/got rid of Deadpool and Cable just because they were Liesfeld creations which had Marvel pay Liesfeld a royalty's check whenever those two were in a book. Not to mention the original X-Force has slowly been erased out of history by Marvel since Quesada despises Rob so much.

Speaking of X-Force I was just reading some bios on X-Fan and it mentioned one of the stupidest plots ever - the X-ternals. Fortunately the X-books current take on it is "ok, Cannonball's immortal, now let us never speak of this again"...

[Guest Sassquatch]

Cannonball was a Marvel creation but since he became so closely associated with Liefeld that Marvel has just clumped him together with the rest of Liesfeld's red-head step children.

 

Cannonball was doomed the day he became a member of X-Force.

[Guest raptor]

Cannonball is joining X-Treme X-Men under the "Cannonball" name, so maybe they realized that they don't have to pay Liefield for using him anymore.

[Guest starvenger]

Cannonball is joining X-Treme X-Men under the "Cannonball" name, so maybe they realized that they don't have to pay Liefield for using him anymore.

Well, they don't have to, period, but I was just pointing out one of the dumber running plots that Liefield came up with at Marvel. I suppose it was intended as a coming of age story for Sam (which basically happened during the Nicieza/Capullo era) but even that was tossed aside when Cannonball joined the X-Men, and I'm sure it could have been handled better without Sam dying and coming back to life.