Guest Spicy McHaggis Report post Posted February 16, 2003 Question: Saddam continues his current course and war closes near... If France doesn't fold and instead uses its veto... Assuming the US, UK, and other allies proceed regardless, do you think that would be it for the UN? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted February 16, 2003 Question: Saddam continues his current course and war closes near... If France doesn't fold and instead uses its veto... Assuming the US, UK, and other allies proceed regardless, do you think that would be it for the UN? No. I think the UN will exist for a long time. But I see America and maybe most of the Middle East withdrawing. This could be a blessing in disguise for the UN. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mad Dog Report post Posted February 16, 2003 The U.N. will continue to exist as long as the U.S. is in it. Once the U.S. finally withdraws the U.N. will fold within 6 months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted February 16, 2003 I don't care for the U.N. but I don't see it going away for a long time. Things will change, but so far no President has had the nerve to actually leave. Bush, isn't going to be the one to do it. For argument's sake. Let's say the U.S. does leave, would the entire UN fold within 6 months like mentioned above, or would only a select few countries leave along side the U.S. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mad Dog Report post Posted February 16, 2003 If the U.S. does leave the U.N. loses it's home, a quarter of it's budget and almost all of it's peace keeping forces. Plus the U.N. is pretty much a joke as is and the only reason it seems to still have any stroke left is due to the U.S. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted February 16, 2003 Well, France using a veto in the Security Council wouldn't mean the demise of the whole organization. Also, you forget that China and Russia could also use a veto. However, I believe that when all this business comes to a Security Council vote, there will be indisputable evidence of Iraqi infractions. As things are now, they really have no reason to call a Security Council vote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tyler McClelland Report post Posted February 16, 2003 If we pull out of UN, I almost guarantee that NATO will fall to the wayside as well. If that happens, heh... I guarantee that we won't know what the hell is going on as far as who is on our side if a large-scale war comes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted February 16, 2003 The UN is a nice idea, but it's obviously difficult to make it work. Hell, the EU isn't exactly harmonious, and that has a lot fewer countries with a lot fewer agendas involved. Personally, I've been in favor of the US pulling out of the UN for a while now, and I would have taken our expulsion from the Human Rights Committee as the final slap in the face. Let France host the UN if they're so eager to look down their noses and tell other people what to do while continuing to support a dangerous regime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted February 16, 2003 Actively supporting a regime and asking for discretion in how we dispose of it are two different things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BDC Report post Posted February 16, 2003 Hell, let's just expel the French. We should have after they wouldn't let us fly over their airspace against Khadafi (sp?). I mean, quite frankly, who do the exactly think they are? Really? I'm not trying to sound like an American Supremecist here, but what does France exactly have in the way of influence? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted February 16, 2003 I wonder why they aer even on the Security Council. What the fuck does France know about fighting a war or even protecting their own country? France is not even a world power. World powers WIN wars, they don't fold after a few weeks. They haven't won a war in over 100 years, WWI (Brits and US won that one), WWII, Indo China (Vietnam), etc... The UN would cease to exist if America left simply because they would go bankrupt. They couldn't sustain their spending without American money. The UN is a joke anyway. They pass a resolution and instead of enforciong it they debate endlessly on whether to pass another resolution. That's like your mom going, "if you do that again I'm sending you to your room!" and you do it again and she debates with her self for a while and then says teh same thing again and so on. If you don't back up your word then no one will believe it and hence you lose credibility. The UN had become little more than a hiding place for cowardly countries (most likely with something to hide) like France and Germany and a safe haven for dictators. It has no real purpose anymore (if it ever really did) and is a self-parody. NATO is pointless now anyway. it was formed to fight the Soviets, but we beat them, now it just sits there and brings in new Eastern Euro. countries for fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Report post Posted February 16, 2003 If the US withdraws I see it as more likely a small group of pro-US nations would start their own club. eg, Britain, Australia, some of the former Soviet countries, like Hungary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted February 17, 2003 UN is a joke, but it's not going anywhere... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted February 17, 2003 Actively supporting a regime and asking for discretion in how we dispose of it are two different things. Indeed there is. However, France and Germany are the two biggest European bankrollers of Iraq and Saddam. Which two countries seem to be having the biggest problems with the threat of impending war again? Follow the money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted February 17, 2003 France and Russia or China are the two biggest problem-makers in my eyes, since they've got the Security Council votes, but I know what point you're trying to make. Can you really blame them? I mean, would you want to help build a nice shed in someone's yard and hear that your friend wants to go over and smash it? Same principle. They're protecting their investments, and I can't really blame them. It's a really BAD investment, but so be it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Report post Posted February 17, 2003 Actively supporting a regime and asking for discretion in how we dispose of it are two different things. Indeed there is. However, France and Germany are the two biggest European bankrollers of Iraq and Saddam. Which two countries seem to be having the biggest problems with the threat of impending war again? Follow the money. Well, the country equal with France which is the biggest in imports to Iraq is Australia, and the largest purchaser of Iraqi exports is America. Food for thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted February 20, 2003 I think the problem is that the UN doesn't follow through on its commitements. The US has always been a major pain in the ass, vetoing things it doesn't like. But it doesn't sign on, then decide not to follow through. What France is doing is accepting a role, and then saying nah....i didnt really want to do that. Thats much worse, as it makes making resolutions at the UN somewhat pointless. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted February 21, 2003 I think France likes the UN so much because it seems that every time the UN is faced with adversity, they drop their guns and run away... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Version 3.0 Report post Posted February 28, 2003 The UN is a nice idea, but it's obviously difficult to make it work. Hell, the EU isn't exactly harmonious, and that has a lot fewer countries with a lot fewer agendas involved. Personally, I've been in favor of the US pulling out of the UN for a while now, and I would have taken our expulsion from the Human Rights Committee as the final slap in the face. Let France host the UN if they're so eager to look down their noses and tell other people what to do while continuing to support a dangerous regime. The UN is a horrible idea the idea being that we should all join together and do what is what for the world and help every failed state and resuce every damsel people in distress. Even worse it tries to bring morality into Foreign Policy a place where they have no place. A country shouldn't give a damn about what's morally right just do what is in its national interest. Nothing more, nothing less W.W.I COOLING Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted February 28, 2003 France and Russia or China are the two biggest problem-makers in my eyes, since they've got the Security Council votes, but I know what point you're trying to make. Russia and China will at least abstain if the US can get France not to veto. Nobody gives a shit about Germany. Make no mistake, France is the problem. Everybody else can be worked around or is at least willing to talk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted February 28, 2003 France is always the problem. They've developed a foriegn policy based around disagreeing with the Americans at all costs. They're a very contrary people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted February 28, 2003 I'm a little curious about this "veto" the French have. If they use it does that mean we can't go to war with UN approval? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LooseCannon Report post Posted February 28, 2003 yup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted February 28, 2003 yup. Damn, dude. That's gonna really hurt us internationally if we go to war without the UN. Not to mention feed a lot of anti-French attitudes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted February 28, 2003 If alot of the UN countries support us in our war effort, though, despite a France veto, it may not be so damaging. From a paperwork point of view, but still. Though, most countries are on the anti-US bandwagon now, so it doesn't really matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mad Dog Report post Posted February 28, 2003 If the French veto it I think it'll do more harm to the UN than to the U.S. They'll make the UN look like pussies if they don't enforce the resolutions. And it'll hurt the UN even more if the pro-war countries just get together anyway and do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted March 1, 2003 France is always the problem. They've developed a foriegn policy based around disagreeing with the Americans at all costs. They're a very contrary people. Hey, you got it easy. I'm an English-Canadian, they've been giving us shit for 300 years. At least they have only been causing the US problems for 100. Even most French-Canadians hate France. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Powerplay Report post Posted March 1, 2003 yup. Damn, dude. That's gonna really hurt us internationally if we go to war without the UN. Not to mention feed a lot of anti-French attitudes. Dreamer, a lot of people ALREADY have anti-French attitudes. I'm sure if you took a poll among the Americans today on who to invade, Iraq or France, we'd be gearing up for a second invasion of Normandy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted March 1, 2003 If the French pull a veto, I have little doubt that Bush will go ahead with war without them. The U.S. didn't ask for the UN's permission to go after Iraq - we asked for their support. Very different. The UN is a joke. It's a way for smaller countries with no power to feed off larger countries like the United States and it gives them the power to tell us what we can and cannot do. Things would be better if the UN acted more like the Super Friends. Everyone took orders from Superman (the US) and Batman (the UK) and there was never a disagreement. They all worked together against the Legion of Doom (Hawk, Animal, Droz, Saddam, Qui-Gon Jinn or whatever his name is in North Korea, etc). Aquaman never tried a power play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted March 1, 2003 We call Flash! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
