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Guest HBK16

The one and only wrestle mania 18 thread

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Guest Some Guy

No but Jericho wasn't really over either.  That stupid band who played HHH to the ring drowned out any reaction he got anyway.

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

If next months ppv is headlined by Rock & Hogan vs. Outsiders...and HHH winning again over someone...ugh.

 

I think my ppv streak will come to an end.

 

I think I'll start waiting for the dvds.

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Guest Sakura

Well, he's been back from the injury for a while now. Last year he was "rewarded" for coming back with a WWF Title win at Wrestlemania. It is pretty lame he fought Hall though.

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

I don't know if I buy the fact that he was just "rewarded" the title.

 

I mean...he did hold the belt for like 9 months...and his heel turn was the catalyst for most of the years event.

 

If he'd have lost it back right away...it would have been a reward.

 

But he was positioned (as he has been since 98 when healty) as the top guy.

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Guest Some Guy

Austin really had no one else to fight that he hasn't before a million times.

 

Observation: this is the 2nd Mania in a row in which the fans have turned on Rock and they still haven't turned him.

 

Observation #2: the pop for HHH pedigreeing Steph was small, will this send the message that it isn't working properly?  HHH did get a huge pop when he won but it died out quickly will this deliver the message?

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Guest The Man in Blak

I suppose they could have tried Austin/Jericho again, but somehow, I think that you could throw those two together 400 times and not one time will you get above a *** match.  They just don't mix, even though you'd think that they would.

 

Otherwise, you gotta take into consideration the people that the Rock has fought over the last WM's - last year, it was Austin, who could be considered the 90's version of Hogan, no matter what comparisons you make with the Rock and his movie career.  This year it was Hogan himself - give him a break, he's popular, but he's still young and he doesn't have nearly the character or the reputation that Austin or Hogan has.

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Guest Some Guy

On the bright side Benoit is coming back and he and Austin have an issue, we can only hope that they feud.

 

Rock is truly not on or really close to the level of Hulk Hogan in terms of popularity and drwing power.  He has only been on top for 3 years and even then he had Austin above him in stardom.  Hogan has had about 20 years as the absolute top guy, Rock can't compete with that reputation, as the fans demonstrated tonight.  I'm not a huge Hogan fan but the guy is really the man in terms of drawing money in wrestling.

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Guest
Who ever decided the order of the matches should be fired.  No one could have followed Hogan/Rock as far as crowd intensity and it really ruined the HHH/Jericho match.  There was very little heat, which surprises me considering Y2J is Canadian.  Rock/Hogan was booked and promoted to be the top match and should have been it.  I understand that the world title match is supposed to be the main event but this should have been the exception.  They did it for Hogan at Mania 8, they should have for this one.  While I'm bitching about a show that I enjoyed, they need to cut out all the comercials and music acts, they added nothing to the show except about a 1/2 hour of excessive time.

 

 

I think the crowd would still have been hot if they would have went straight from Rock/Hogan to HHH/Jericho.  Having the women's match in there was really out of place.  I totally agree with you.

 

I'm hoping that they split HHH and Jericho after the roster split and make them both champs of their respected fed, if only to keep Jericho in the main event scene.  It's sad for a guy like him to sink back down to the midcard when he was barely given a chance to have a good character in the first place.  At least get him away from Steph Booking.

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Guest The Mighty Damaramu

Why the #### is Vince so scared to make new stars? So Jericho didn't get over IMMEDIATELY. Well ####....let's just give it to HHH. I'm really getting tired of them giving the title to someone new and then getting scared and handing it back off to an established star. I say that like it's a common occurence....wait in the past 3 years the only new guys to get that are Angle and Jericho! HHH, Rock, and Austin have beent he 3 Main Eventers and everyone else is just there. Angle and Jericho flirt with it but don't get anything beyond a crappy short run.

Jericho should've lost it 6 months from now to another up and comer.

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Guest Some Guy

Damaramu don't forgrt about Big Show's epic run with the belt in late 99.

 

I just realized that this was the 1st Mania since 14 that Vince didn't interfere in the main event.  And probably the 1st since 9 that he didn't even appear on.  It was a different McMahon interfering in this years main event.  Who says they don't create new stars? :)

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Guest The Mighty Damaramu

#### it wasn't Vince. But it might as well have been. I mean all the McMahon's are the same. They all book themselves over the wrestlers and give themselves all the TV time.

I beginning to believe Bret Hart about Vince treating wrestlers like Circus Animals. The McMahons are the ring leaders so they are better than the dumb animals. They use the animals to get themselves over for the crowd.

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Guest Judas14
When is Scott's review going to be up?

Provided Scott hasn't gone insane with rage, I'd say about 6-7PM Monday night....

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Guest goodhelmet

Ok, I've let the show sink in and watched a couple of matches again to get a grasp on it. Here's my thoughts

 

6 man tag- 1/4*. Absolutely nothing special here. I feel bad for Lance Storm.

 

RVD-Regal- **1/2. I was loving the match but it was way too short. I'm glad they got all stiff on each other. It was the only way it could work.

 

Christian-DDP *1/2. After watching the match again, it wasn't anything special at all. A few nice near falls but nothing special.

 

Goldust-Maven- 1/4*. A couple of nice Maven bumps but a really weak hardcore match. Al Snow would have been ten times better in the role. Mentor vs. student. Smell the money!

 

Kane-Angle- ***. The best actual match of the show. Beside the weak ending, the work was solid. Only problem is we've seen it before and they didn't really build off their past matches.

 

UT-Flair- **. Taker's no broomstick but Flair did a great bladejob. Picked up toward the end but the early portion dragged horribly.

 

Booker-Edge. *. A friggin 5 minute match for what could have been a great showcase of young talent. What a waste. The botched rana didn't help either.

 

Stone Cold- Scott Hall- DUD. This match sucked. The most overbooked and convoluted match on the card. Kevin Nash dragged it down ten notches and he wasn't even a player. Stone Cold needs a new enemy and quick.

 

4way tag match- DUD. This match sucked and I've never seen so many botched and telegraphed moves. The double DDT was a friggin handstand for chrissakes!!! D-Von's face first dive through the table elevated it a little but not by much. We need the Flock in the tag ranks now!!!

 

Hogan-Rock- **1/2. As a match, I've watched it twice since it has aired, it's really thin. The end is solid but the early portion was all heat and no wrestling. If I ever felt like I was in a twilight zone, this match was it. I'm glad it was clean too. What more can you ask from Hogan? This was so friggin weird! If there was ever a time for a Rock heel turn, the time is NOW! that's two Manias in a row where the fans have turned on him.

 

Woman's match- *. Jazz and Trish bust their ass and Lita sucks. She botched her moves, her cues and couldn't even throw one believable strike. Pathetic!!! Fire her now! Bring in Hamada's (grand)daughter and let Jazz and Molly and trish run wild.

 

Trips-Steph- **3/4- Jericho busted his ass but Trips is useless right now. the screwiness was less than I thought and no shock turns or swerves but Trips is Sid2002. That sucks because him and Lucy will be shoved down our throats for the next two years. Adios Jericho! RVD and the midcard are waiting.

 

Overall: No way this show was worth $40. Not one standout match although Rock-Hogan went way beyond my expectations but it was so surreal I don't think I can knock it down. Did anyone else notice that Trips, Rock and Austin all won their matches. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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Guest Tony149

I also watched some of the watches again...well, I only saw Flair/Taker & Hogan/Rock again. I now enjoy the Flair/Taker match. I'm biased towards Flair, but he did a helluva a bladejob. Plus, it's always good to see a cameo from Double A. Hogan/Rock has incredible heat. Kinda weird how the last two WM's The Rock has been given a heel reaction from the fans. I think the Hogan/nWo stuff is a swerve to sucker in The Rock. We'll see on Raw.

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Guest Rabies

What I liked:

 

1. RVD winning IC title- Just common sense folks.

 

2. Rock/Hogan- This was worth the $40 alone, 'nuff said.

 

What I didn't like:

 

1. Rock/Hogan NOT being last- Obviously.

 

2. Saliva/Drowning Pool- The acts were very underwhelming and sucked heat from any aspect of the show. The only time there should be live acts performing should be under different special circumstances such as the suprised Motorhead performance of HHH's entrance at WM17 and the DX theme at WM14.

 

3. The Hardcore pinfalls throughout the show: I did not find this amusing or funny at all. But of coarse, I am biased against having a HC title in existance in the first place. The segments is something that SHOULD NOT be at Wrestlemania.

 

On a scale from 1 to 10, I give WM18 a 7.5

Without Hogan/Rock, I would have given it a 4

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Guest goodhelmet

"I think the Hogan/nWo stuff is a swerve to sucker in The Rock. We'll see on Raw."

 

the beatdown looked good. hall even threw the toothpick. Now is the time for A Rock heel turn. At Backlash, Outsiders vs Hogan/Rock with Rocky turning heel.

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

I actually enjoyed the Hardcore stuff.

 

Al Snow missing everyone with the golf cart.

 

Hurricane swinging in.

 

Molly hitting him with a frying pan.

 

Christian hitting Molly with a door.

 

Christian losing AGAIN in Canada.

 

I thought it was funny.

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Guest goodhelmet

It was more entertaining then the shitty live acts that's for sure, but a better actual match would have been Maven-Al Snow.

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Guest J*ingus

A lot of people have been fussing about Hogan-Rock not being the last one.  Well guys, the World Title match should ALWAYS be the main event, and everyone bitches hard whenever it's not.

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Guest goodhelmet

"A lot of people have been fussing about Hogan-Rock not being the last one.  Well guys, the World Title match should ALWAYS be the main event, and everyone bitches hard whenever it's not."

 

That's not necessarily true. With the weak buildup to the title match, it was doomed to come off flat. That's just HHH ego stroking. Look back on the Ground Zero PPV. The Bret HArt-Patriot title match should not have come after HBK-Taker. That's just setting a match up to fail. Certain circumstances should be the exception to the general rule.

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Guest chirs3

I agree, the world title match should be last...

 

... unless they book themselves into a shithole, like this year.

 

I know I preached "Title match for main event!" on the boards, but looking back, if the buildup and crowd reaction were that poor, it should have been switched on the card with Icon/Icon.

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Guest Kahran Ramsus

The Main Event should be the match that people are there to see.

 

For example, at Summerslam 1992 it was the IC Title match and it was rightfully the main event.

 

As for a time when not having the WWF Title match last was stupid, just look at Summerslam (or Survivor Series for that matter) where the WWF Title is placed below a horrible Undertaker match, despite the fact that Bret/Owen & Bret/Backlund were the biggest things going on at the time.

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Guest converge241

My first access to the comp after WM X8 so let me chime in..

I loved it. I think one of the best I've ever seen. Rock-Hogan really should have been last. I was positive that Bret was going to come out to pop the crowd up, they blew their load on that Hoagn match. I couldnt believe we got some Rocky sucks chants, It's been a while since that happened. I won 5 bucks on a bet that Christian , at some point would win that hardcore title, but lost it with no Bret appearence. I marked out bigtime when Anderson interfered and got that slam in. Even the women's match , while crap compared to the men's matches, was great on the scale of women's matches.

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Guest Mystery Eskimo
I loved it. I think one of the best I've ever seen.

this is sarcasm, right?

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Guest Midnight Express83

Music crap well sucked, enough said.

 

RVD vs Regal: This match was a good solid match that was stiff as ####. Jesus, both men busted each other up and Regal tried to Kill RVD with that Half-Nelson suplex. Knucks come in and not a factor as RVD kicks them away, then kicks them into Regal's face. ***** frog splash for the win. I say *** and best Regal match since his bouts with Jericho/Benoit of 2000.

 

Christian vs DDP-short solid match with Heyman's booking written all over it, #### he did most of this card. DDP wins with the Diamond Cutter after they tried for finishers all match. And thats not a bad thing.:D THATS A GOOD THING! :D**3/4

 

Maven vs Goldust- Crap crap crap. Goldust blew a spot than pulled the can away from his face. He screwed this match up. Only bad match on the card. Spike-Hurricane-Molly-Christian-Maven win the hardcore title. Only funny skit was the Molly losing to Chrstian. DUD for this one.

 

Kane vs Angle-Angle works his wonders and pulls another good match out of Kane. Great match here and just proves why Angle is a god. Great Crowd heat for Kurt. And this match was one of the greats of the night. Angle wins with a Flairish Roll-up ***3/4

 

Flair vs Undertaker- Flair pulls a good match out of Taker while getting his ass handed to him. Great  match and great to see Arn do what he does best. PLANT people with a spine buster. God, I miss the horsemen. But both get to be victims of Taker's mania streak. 10-0 by tombstone ***

 

Booker vs Edge- Good match all around but too short. Many cut one of those groups playing and this match would have been better. Too short to be anything good. But not bad by any means. Edge gets the DDT and Bookers got the Spinoroonie**

 

Stone Cold vs Scott Hall-The best actual match that a member of the nWo could have with Austin. Fell flat with Hall being Austin's bitch and Nash making the semi Dusty finish possible. The two stunners together did kick ass. *3/4

 

Billy and Chuck vs Hardyz vs Dudleys vs APA-Stacy Dancing makes up for the crappy band. Good Tag team match but the streak of GREAT tag team matches crashes into a brick wall called Billy Gunn. Passable match with nothing bad but nothing to write about. AGD© wins this one by pinning the AGDhicks. **1/2

 

Hogan vs Rocky- This match was Hogan vs Andre without it being a title match and 500pounds of suck in the ring. A true dream match that lived to the hype. GREAT match. I saw myself marking out for both. And I am not a fan of either really. Great old school style of match which saw Rocky being booed like it was 1998 all over again. But Hogan did the clean job as a pass of the torch that might not be as bad of an outcome like the pass to Warrior and Goldberg were. There is nothing to bitch about in this match.  ****1/4 crowd heat+solid match+clean ending makes me a happy man.

 

Jazz vs Lita vs Trish- Women's match but on the good side. Short but crowd killer. If you want a reason why the crowd was dead in the main. here it is. Right here. Jazz wins with a top rope brainbuster. Or atleast Lita fell like it was one. *

 

Trips vs Jericho- Save the title match for last. Trips leg was worked on all match. And Jericho had a great match here with the game. the only real suck was Drowning Pool and Steph. Yet both of those weren't real issues. Match was a Ric Flairish old school match. Jericho went after the leg like it was a big bullseye and Trips turned into Sting for the win. ****

 

Overall: Great show with 2 **** matches and 3 *** matches. Makes this a good show. Wasn't a WM17 and it wasn't a WM9. More like WM8 great top card and solid undercard. And the crap was kept to about 15 mins tops.

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Guest WWF4Life

Awesome show! I find it funny that people were ripping into it, but still watched it! =) That suplex Regal delivered to RVD was sick, good opening match. The only lame thing on the show was the studd with the Hardcore title. Apart from that, it was an excellent show from top to bottom. Flair-Taker, Hogan-Rock and Jericho-HHH were entertaining, and that's what I ask for in a PPV. Roll on Backlash!!!

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Guest Cataclysm911

Jericho's promo that he cut on the Rock a few months ago where he said "I am not a joke you son of a bitch!" was reason enough for him the keep the world title at Wrestlemania in my opinion. That promo is more than HHH has done in the entertainment department in my opinion.

 

Hogan & The Rock were both on fire. You could tell from The Rock's promo in the middle of the show that he was hype. The crowd was in a frenzy for Hogan too. I "marked" out many times during the match. I "marked" for Hogan posing, I "marked" for the Hogan "Hulk up" & The Leg drop. I "marked" when the Rock kicked out of the leg drop and when Hogan kicked out of the Rock Bottom. It wasn't Lyger Vs. Benoit type wrestling, but the heat involved in the match made this by far the match of the night.

 

I don't care what anyone says about the WWF, or the man but Hogan has solely made me interested in wrestling again. That has to account for something. He is more entertaining than Steph & HHH.

 

As for the rest of the night, I'm glad that RVD won the IC title, though I wish that the Dudleyz would have won the Tag Team belts.

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Guest TheMikeSC

Awesome show! I find it funny that people were ripping into it, but still watched it! =) That suplex Regal delivered to RVD was sick, good opening match. The only lame thing on the show was the studd with the Hardcore title. Apart from that, it was an excellent show from top to bottom. Flair-Taker, Hogan-Rock and Jericho-HHH were entertaining, and that's what I ask for in a PPV. Roll on Backlash!!! >>>

 

 

As a hint, a fed should be REALLY worried when people pay for their events and rip into them.

 

Those same people will be far less likely to pay for events in the future.

                 -=Mike

 

...For example, see Starrcade 1997

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Guest cabbageboy

I loved this show, in fact I enjoyed it more than last year.  The WM last year had better wrestling per se, but the whole Austin heel turn was so dumb that it has turned me sour on that show.  

 

RVD is the man.  Write it down.  He got a cool match out of Goldust and Regal on consecutive PPVs, I can't imagine hardly anyone doing that.  

 

I am laughing at people bitching about the women's match being next to close.  Don't you get it?  That is the point!  It was in what I call the Killer Bees position.  At Wm3 the Bees vs. Volkoff/Shiek was second to last (Hogan/Andre was the main), but everyone knew it was a nothing match just there to chill the crowd, let them piss, let them get food, until the main.  No one has mentioned it, but Jazz did the coolest move of the night with that Fisherman's Buster off the top rope.  Why waste that spot in a women's match?  ####, that move was used as a catalyst in a major ECW feud when RVD did it to Sabu and #### near broke his neck.  It could draw some money if used in a match that mattered.

 

Another thing is that I am amazed so many people are on here bitching about the show.  Go fuck yourselves.  I can't think of any truly bad matches on the entire show and nothing sucked aside from the 2nd rate bands.  Rock/Hogan was an amazing experience to see.   Did anyone think that Jericho was gonna win?  Did anyone care?  It had solid work in it but man the crowd was just dead.  That's a sign of HHH not being that over as a face, Jericho not being over as a heel, and the whole angle being crap to begin with.    Comparing this show to WM 9 or 11 is idiotic, since there was some #### good stuff on it and nothing offended me.

 

I laugh at people who think "Gee, Edge and Booker is gonna rule!"  Why would it?  Edge underachieves daily and Booker is basically a Buckwheat job boy at this point, so to expect **** there is absurd.  Angle and Kane was an ok match but certainly not the ***1/2 affair the Angle marks on here make it out to be.  #### they had better on SMDN.  

 

Tag match was pretty decent since they kept B and C out of the ring and concentrated mostly on Boyz vs. Boyz.

 

Flair is still the man.

 

No one has said it but Patterson deserves a lot of credit for his booking on Rock/Hogan.  The man is a wrestling genius when it comes to booking a big match, that is why Vince puts up with his disturbing gay fantasy booking such as the evening gown match with Brisco.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure where to rank it among the Manias, but WM 8 seems about right to me.

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