What if Hogan never came to WCW?

[Guest JMA]

Just imagine for a moment that Hogan retired (while in the WWF) in 1993. His last match was against Bret Hart. Hogan submitted to the Sharpshooter and really put Bret over. Next week he gives a real classy retirement speech and thanks all the fans. He does some talkshows and interviews before retiring at his home in Venice Beach (finally able to spend time with his family). Thus, Hogan never comes to WCW (or brings his buddies with him). What would WCW be like if Hogan never joined? What would the WWF be like without Hogan? What would become of the fledgling ECW? What would be the scene at the indies?

 

What do YOU think would happen?

[TheFranchise 0]

Just imagine for a moment that Hogan retired (while in the WWF) in 1993. His last match was against Bret Hart. Hogan submitted to the Sharpshooter and really put Bret over.

Best. Finish. Ever.

 

Seriously, we never got to see that match

 

sorry to change topic.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

...this is actually a damn good question...

 

I honestly think WCW might've turned into a better overall product, or at least lasted 2 more years than it really did.

 

ECW would be missing the anti-Hulkster promo's and possibly the bWo, but they'd still have been around. Maybe not AS popular, but perhaps more so or slightly less.

[TheFranchise 0]

Maybe we would have had Benoit/Guerrero pushed into ME quicker?

[Guest JMA]

I think the New World Order would still exist (with Waltman being the third member) but they may have been called The Outsiders instead.

[TheFranchise 0]

I don't know, Syxx coming down to screw Savage et al? doesn't fit..

[Guest HartFan86]

WCW would focus more around the 1994 wrestling (You know, the GOOD stuff.) and the WWF would probably go in the same direction as it is now.

[Guest tpww7]

Just imagine for a moment that Hogan retired (while in the WWF) in 1993. His last match was against Bret Hart. Hogan submitted to the Sharpshooter and really put Bret over.

Best. Finish. Ever.

 

Seriously, we never got to see that match

 

sorry to change topic.

At the end of that match, have Owen Hart attack both Hogan and Bret and give Hogan a crippling injury that would send him into retirement. It would get Owen over big time as a heel, and lead right back into the Owen- Bret feud. Maybe Owen could get that WWF Title reign he never got.

[Guest JMA]

I don't know, Syxx coming down to screw Savage et al? doesn't fit..

Ah, but without Hogan, Savage would never come to WCW. He would have stayed retired. Waltman would be introduced without there being a match.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

Just imagine for a moment that Hogan retired (while in the WWF) in 1993. His last match was against Bret Hart. Hogan submitted to the Sharpshooter and really put Bret over.

Best. Finish. Ever.

 

Seriously, we never got to see that match

 

sorry to change topic.

At the end of that match, have Owen Hart attack both Hogan and Bret and give Hogan a crippling injury that would send him into retirement. It would get Owen over big time as a heel, and lead right back into the Owen- Bret feud. Maybe Owen could get that WWF Title reign he never got.

But Hogan's WWF retirement in 93 is a year apart from Owen's push.

[Guest razazteca]

Turner would of saved alot of money and maybe Sting would of done something else other than sitting on the roof giving WCW the silent clown treatment.

[Guest jester]

Hogan would have weasled his way back into the WWF somehow if he'd never gone to WCW.

 

The man will not go away.

[Guest JMA]

Hogan would have weasled his way back into the WWF somehow if he'd never gone to WCW.

 

The man will not go away.

In this hypothetical situation he DOES go away... for good. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what would happen if this came to pass.

[Guest bravesfan]

I'll just throw out a few that would've certainly not happened:

 

--If Hogan retired for good in 1993, we would've never seen guys like Duggan, Savage, Piper being offered a job or coaxed out of retirement, therefore people like Austin, Pillman and Foley (right time period?) would've never been depushed or jobbed out like they were.

 

--WCW (Bischoff in particular) would've never considered themselves a major threat to the WWF without Hogan, so Monday Nitro would've never been accepted by Turner executives. Therefore...no "Monday Night Wars". WCW would rely on their popular Saturday Night show to garner ratings, and WWF would counter that with Shotgun down the line. IMO, Nitro would've happened down the line, but never to the degree of success it had in 1996 and 1997.

 

--Steve Austin would've had multiple WCW Title Reigns.

 

--Not too sure about the "Clique", and Nash/Hall's situation. I doubt they would've ever left the WWF if Bischoff wasn't in hot pursuit of Vince. WCW would grow their own wrestlers with the occasional signings while the WWF would have Nash, Owen, Bret, Helmsley(?), Undertaker and Michaels. Not sure where they would've gone after they exhausted those 6.

 

--ECW would still be dead.

 

--Seemingly since the WWF would have complete control this whole time, the Vinces would've never pushed the envelope with certain gimmicks; therefore no Nation & no "Rock". With his amount of charisma, he would've found his niche in another gimmick though.

 

It all really depends on whether Bischoff really thought he had a shot at catching Vince, without the aid of Hogan's mainstream drawing power. If he'd stay put and just grown his own crops of guys with the occasional Lucha Libre and Japanese imports, the scene would be A WHOLE LOT different.

[Guest JMA]

I'll just throw out a few that would've certainly not happened:

 

--If Hogan retired for good in 1993, we would've never seen guys like Duggan, Savage, Piper being offered a job or coaxed out of retirement, therefore people like Austin, Pillman and Foley (right time period?) would've never been depushed or jobbed out like they were.

 

--WCW (Bischoff in particular) would've never considered themselves a major threat to the WWF without Hogan, so Monday Nitro would've never been accepted by Turner executives. Therefore...no "Monday Night Wars". WCW would rely on their popular Saturday Night show to garner ratings, and WWF would counter that with Shotgun down the line. IMO, Nitro would've happened down the line, but never to the degree of success it had in 1996 and 1997.

 

--Steve Austin would've had multiple WCW Title Reigns.

 

--Not too sure about the "Clique", and Nash/Hall's situation. I doubt they would've ever left the WWF if Bischoff wasn't in hot pursuit of Vince. WCW would grow their own wrestlers with the occasional signings while the WWF would have Nash, Owen, Bret, Helmsley(?), Undertaker and Michaels. Not sure where they would've gone after they exhausted those 6.

 

--ECW would still be dead.

 

--Seemingly since the WWF would have complete control this whole time, the Vinces would've never pushed the envelope with certain gimmicks; therefore no Nation & no "Rock". With his amount of charisma, he would've found his niche in another gimmick though.

 

It all really depends on whether Bischoff really thought he had a shot at catching Vince, without the aid of Hogan's mainstream drawing power. If he'd stay put and just grown his own crops of guys with the occasional Lucha Libre and Japanese imports, the scene would be A WHOLE LOT different.

Nice and detailed. I like it. But what would have happened if Bischoff capitalized on the following ECW had? He could have worked out a deal with ECW and Heyman.

[Guest crandamaniac]

Turner would of saved alot of money and maybe Sting would of done something else other than sitting on the roof giving WCW the silent clown treatment.

I remember reading somewhere that if Hogan would have pulled out, that Bisch had Sting waiting in the wings to become the 3rd member of the nWo. So that could of happened

[Guest HartFan86]

Turner would of saved alot of money and maybe Sting would of done something else other than sitting on the roof giving WCW the silent clown treatment.

I remember reading somewhere that if Hogan would have pulled out, that Bisch had Sting waiting in the wings to become the 3rd member of the nWo. So that could of happened

Sex, Lies and Headlocks.

 

If Hogan backed out from turning Heel, the backup plan was for Sting to turn.

[TheFranchise 0]

Thanks, you just blew another part of the book for me, i'm about 1/4 through and its been discussed so many times on here i already know it

[Guest snuffbox]

Before Hogan came in in 1994 WCW was on a definite upswing. The quality of shows with Flair as booking champion were off the charts and WCW was allready gaining ground on the stale WWF product. Had Hogan not come in with his three ring circus of queers its probable that WCW would have continued moving forward with a much more serious wrestling company, with a much more stable future. Flair would have had another few good years, with Austin rising as the next big main event star. Sting, Foley, etc would have all been much better used. WCW shows would be gradually increasing buyrates and ratings with good angles and matches. Their rise would have probably eventually forced Vince to still take on an edgier product with WWE, but with someone else in the Steve Austin role (Pillman? Owen?). The NWO could have very well still come to be, but with the successes of Austin, Flair etc and a healthy book, their would have been less chance of backstage bullshit.

 

I think a lengthier, more detailed chronology of events from Starrcade 93/Hogan tapping out to Bret (WM10?) could be in order here. Anybody interested in writing such a scenario? I might, with time, it could be amusing to see how good the current product really could be!

[Guest Dmann2000]

I got news for you guys, Foley was not forced out by Hogan et al. Remmember he had a problem with Flair as booker.

[Guest Celtic Jobber]

Eric Bischoff would've been replaced after a year or so. Without Bischoff holding him down, Steve would've introduced his Stone Cold gimmick in WCW. But, Turner's standards and practices would ruin the gimmick by not allowing Steve to swear or flip the bird.

[TheFranchise 0]

Or drink!

[syxx2001 0]

I read that Bret Hart was intended to be the 3rd man in 96 cause his contract was coming close to ending, but he didn't sign with WCW so Vince gave him that 20 year contract or whatever, and Hogan was chosen to be the 3rd man.

[TheFranchise 0]

Nah, i don't think so, Hart would have been too over as a face in 96 (saying that, Hogan was)

[Guest DawnBTVS]

Choke on THIS~! I've only done WWF and am up to late 1996 though. Here's what I think WWF would've done(Some of it is a bit far reached but look for the cool RR95 rumble match)

 

WWF

-King of the Ring 1993: Owen Hart goes on to win the "1st ever" KoTR torunament over Bam Bam Bigelow. Hogan jobs the Title to Bret in a 16 minute(***) match. Owen walks out, disgusted that his brother is getting all the glory.

 

-Summerslam 1993: Bret/Owen feud is building each show. Finally they square off in a 30 minute Iron Man match for the Title. Bret wins 3 falls to 2 after Owen gets nailed with powder and rolled up. Owen argues it should've been a DQ, keeping both strong while furthering the feud. Shawn Michaels wins the IC Title from then champion Razor Ramon, setting up a feud over the belt. Steiners retain the Tag Titles over 1-2-3 Kid/Marty Jannetty as they form a team.

 

-Royal Rumble 1994: Owen upsets Bret in a non-title match. British Bulldog returns and unites with Bret. Owen says he'll come back with a partner of his own. Razor Ramon wins the Rumble Match but later loses the #1 Contendorship to Diesel in Diesel's debut match. Shawn Michaels successfully defends his IC Title against Crush in a nothing match. Steiners lose their Tag Titles to 1-2-3 Kid/Marty Jannetty, now managed by Johnny Polo via cane shot.

 

-Wrestlemania 1994: Bret beats Diesel via Sharpshooter. After the match, Jim Neidhart runs in and takes out Bret as Owen and Bulldog brawl in the entryway. Shawn Michaels beats Razor Ramon in their epic ladder match.

 

-King of the Ring 1994: Diesel, slowly turning Face beats Jeff Jarrett to win the KoTR. Bret beats Neidhart and Shawn beats Adam Bomb.

 

-Summerslam 1994: Razor Ramon beats HBK for the IC Title in a rematch of their Ladder classic. Owen/Neidhart beat Bret/Bulldog in a tag elimination as Owen manages to get Bret to submit to the Sharpshooter. 1-2-3 Kid/Marty Jannetty continue their domination of the tag ranks as they beat Lex Luger/Tatanka.

 

-Royal Rumble 1995: Shawn Michaels wins the Rumble, thanks to eliminated Owen dumping Bulldog. Diesel beats Ramon to win the IC Title. Steiners beat the 1-2-3 Kid/Jannetty for the Tag Titles, after the match the Road Warriors run in and take apart the Steiners. Bret Hart defends his Title against Jeff Jarrett.

 

-Wrestlemania 1995: IC Title Owen Hart beats Diesel. Owen says that he'll be better then Bret ever was. Shawn Michaels beats Bret to win the World Title after Owen interferes. Road Warriors beat Quebecers, 1-2-3 Kid/Marty Jannetty for #1 Contendor's spot. Randy Savage makes his return to cost Lex Luger a match vs Yokozuna.

 

-Summerslam 1995: Shawn Michaels defends his Title successfully against Undertaker who makes his big return. Owen beats Bulldog in a FCA anywhere match, w/Bret and Neidhart both interfering a ton. Road Warriors and Steiners draw after both teams get counted out. Lex Luger beats Randy Savage but gets attacked by a heel 1-2-3 Kid and Marty Jannetty.

 

-Survivor Series 1995: Shawn Michaels beats Owen, Bret and Razor Ramon in a 4 corners match. Diesel beats Undertaker in a casket match. Lex Luger/Steiners b. Road Warriors/Randy Savage, after the match, Jannetty/1-2-3 Kid attack Luger again.

 

-Royal Rumble 1996: HHH beats Yokozuna in a career match, signalling the end to Yokozuna. Steiners b. Road Warriors to keep the Titles in a tables match. Bulldog beats Owen to win the IC Title after Neidhart turned on Owen. Bret Hart beats Shawn Michaels as the Hart Foundation is formed, Bret and Bulldog turn heel. 1-2-3 Kid beats Luger, Marty attacks Johnny Polo after the match, turning himself face.

 

-Wrestlemania 1996: Triple H begins a feud with Jeff Jarrett after Jarrett el kabongs Rena Mero, HHH's manager at the time. Road Warriors b. Scott Steiner after Rick abandons Scott. Diesel/Shawn Michaels b. Bret Hart/Owen Hart, after the Hart Foundation attack. Lex Luger and a now face Marty Jannetty make the save.

 

-King of the Ring 1996: Mick Foley makes his debut as Cactus Jack. He wins the KoTR tournament after beating the Undertaker, when Bearer turns on Taker. Jeff Jarrett b. HHH in a guitar on a pole match after HHH el kabongs Rena by mistake. Hart Foundation b. Jannetty/Michaels/Diesel after Luger no showed. After the match, 1-2-3 came down to make the save, turning himself face as a result.

 

-Summerslam 1996: Degeneration X forms as Bret defends his World Title against 1-2-3 Kid with Hart Foundation running in. After DX makes the save(Diesel/Jannetty/HBK). Undertaker beats Razor Ramon when Cactus Jack attacks Taker with a shovel. HHH beats Jarrett when Rena nails Jarrett with her shoe. Owen loses the IC Title to Marty Jannetty after HBK superkicks Owen.

[Guest papacita]

While I've always said that Hogan ruined WCW, had he retired in 93, Turner's money still would've allowed Bischoff to steal more mainstream wrestlers away from the WWF, possibly resulting in the financial problems WCW had right before McMahon bought it out. They might not have attracted as much mainstream attention without Hogan, and creatively, they probably wouldn't have gotten as goofy as they did from late 94 to early 96, but I really can't see things being that different without Hogan.

[syxx2001 0]

yea, i was gonna say, bischoff still would have created nitro and stolen luger and maybe gotten savage. but ddp wouldn't have been held down either

[Guest bravesfan]

While I've always said that Hogan ruined WCW, had he retired in 93, Turner's money still would've allowed Bischoff to steal more mainstream wrestlers away from the WWF, possibly resulting in the financial problems WCW had right before McMahon bought it out.

 

Bischoff admitted he NEEDED Hogan to succeed. Not because of the mainstream publicity, but because most of the Turner executives already frowned on Saturday Night as it as. Turner execs wanted a "big star", even beyond Sting and Flair standards, to garner ratings. Nitro would've never gotten past the developmental stages if Hogan wasn't there to convince everyone else besides Turner and Bischoff.

 

 

They might not have attracted as much mainstream attention without Hogan, and creatively, they probably wouldn't have gotten as goofy as they did from late 94 to early 96, but I really can't see things being that different without Hogan.

 

Bischoff would've never had the balls to sign half of those wrestlers, convinced he didn't have a chance to upstage Vince and his brand.

 

 

yea, i was gonna say, bischoff still would have created nitro and stolen luger and maybe gotten savage. but ddp wouldn't have been held down either

 

You're right, Luger would've gone back to WCW anyway considering the depush he brought upon himself, but old men like Savage and Piper wouldn't have gotten a contract without Hogan in Bischoff's ear.

 

DDP was horrible in 1994. I can't think of a single good match he had until about his Raven/Benoit feud in 1997 and 1998.

[Guest JMA]

I think a lot of older WWF stars would have retired once Hogan did (following his lead, so to speak). I see the following people as retiring after Hogan:

 

"Macho Man" Randy Savage

"Rowdy" Roddy Piper

"Hacksaw" Jim Duggan

Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake (no Hogan to help him)

Jake "The Snake" Roberts

Ted DiBiase

and others

 

Although keep in mind some would remain as managers, commentators, or road agents. I don't see much (if any) of them migrating to WCW. Without Hogan's lead there would be no reason.

[Guest JMA]

Just bumpin'.