Ultimate Marvel

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Hey guys,

 

 

With all the snow limiting my options, I'm trying to create some discussion on the Comic-Book Folder. With that in mind, I wanted to discuss Ultimate Marvel: The titles themselves, what should they be doing next, and what have they failed to do?

 

I thought Ultimate Spider-Man was fantastic till the final Issue of the Doc Ock/Kraven arc. Turning Kraven into a joke and killing off Ultimate Justin Hammer before he got to fight Iron Man smacked of bad descision making. The Return of the Green Goblin was the first arc they've done that felt just... wrong to me. Destroying the siginificance of the Gwen Stacy incident, and having Harry resolve the conflict were two more missteps. The inclusion of Ultimate SHIELD who are already worlds shittier than their MU Counterparts, was extremely unwelcome. The "Copycat" arc was just plain mediocre. It gave Capt. Stacy his send-off with none of the heart or class of the MU version of the events. There was a meaningless filler issue with the Rhino in there that I detested as well.

 

Ultimate X-Men felt like "X-Men for Dummies" since Issue 1. The first arc was pretty good, the next three SUCKED. (Weapon X, World Tour, Hellfire Club) Except for a pretty good tywo-issue story with gambit this title has been absoulutly awful.

 

The Ultimates is everything wrong with comics. A half-wit writer who thinks that characterization is just making characters unlikable bastards. There is no reason for me to care about these characters, so why should I buy the stories. The action feels like a bastardized Authority, the dialogue is forced, and now this "realistic" book is turning one of the most important conflicts in world history into a fucking alien invasion. WHY WOULD ANYONE BUY THIS?

[Guest the 1inch punch]

The Ultimates is everything wrong with comics. A half-wit writer who thinks that characterization is just making characters unlikable bastards. There is no reason for me to care about these characters, so why should I buy the stories. The action feels like a bastardized Authority, the dialogue is forced, and now this "realistic" book is turning one of the most important conflicts in world history into a fucking alien invasion. WHY WOULD ANYONE BUY THIS?

Ok, I only have The Ultimates Book One (The Trade Book), and the reason I like it is that Hank Pym, and Banner are completely unlikeable people

 

Since the followup hasn't been released yet, I can offer no opinion on Hawkeye

 

Anyway, I tend to stick to Punisher and Daredevil anyway, So I'm no help here

[Guest Luke Cage]

I picked up some of the Ultimate comics and decided that they weren't for me. It was a combination of...

Not caring to see stories I have already read being retold with an "edge" or with "attitude"....

Glacial pacing. It was bad enough the books I read were rehashing old stories...but to take 6 issues to cover what could be done in two? Don't even talk about the fact that some of these concepts were intoruced in 10 page stories. IMO, indulgent and page rate padding at it's worst.

I gave Ultimates a try but dropped it after I realized that it was following the same trend as other Ultimate books I had read.

I agree with you about the characters being "unlikable bastards" It seems like some people who write super hero comics don't really LIKE superhero comics. It's a shame.

Oh well...more time for books I enjoy!

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Cage, do you like the hero your name is based on, or did you just like the name?

 

 

I'm just curious because I happen to be a big fan of Power Man and I hated his recent MAX series so I wanted to know what another fan thought about it.

[Guest raptor]

Okay, I think that if you reaad my reviews, you can tell that I'm a pretty big fan of the Ultimate titles.

 

Ultimate Spider-Man: I don't have any of the problems that you seem to have with this title. It seems that you're looking for a total rehash of old events, instead of a reimagining of the entire mythos. I'd be very bored if I knew what was happening next. Capt. Stacy wasn't developed enough beyond "Gwen's Dad," and looking back, he's always been a plot device to move Gwen and Peter closer together and fuck with Mary Jane's head. Yes, "Copycat" was mediocre, but I think the ending and the impact it had on Spidey redeem its existence. Plus, "Ultimate Venom" has kicked so much ass that Copycat is just a distent memory.

 

Ultimate X-Men: I agree that I don't like this as much as some, but it isn't nearly as bad as you say. I think Millar is pretty talented, and it comes across in a majority of the issues, mediocre or not. It was great up until "Weapon X," and then it dropped in quality somewhat (although I enjoyed Austen's Ultimate Gambit a great deal). Things I like: Millar is using Wolverine better than anybody else right now and um... he killed Cyclops. Yeah, that was good. Plus, he's bringing perhaps his best character, Nightcrawler, back. Bad: Colossus' is gay (and a total stereotype. Instead of doing anything interesting with it, Millar has him staring at Wolverine too much), the pacing is horrible, and Dark Phoenix seemed like it was phoned in.

 

The Ultimates: I don't think that Millar is substituting characterization for unlikeable characters, as the characterization is all done quite well, and some characters are likeable. Likeable: Hawkeye, Iron Man, Captain America, The Wasp, Fury, Black Widow, Thor. Unlikeable : Pym, Banner. Hawkeye is the best of all, as he's still a cocky bastard, and it's not a stretch to say Millar knows cocky bastards. The one thing I don't like: the pacing/time between issues. If you're going to come out once every two months, have something happen in your issues, Mark.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Um, Iron man was the guy who was talking about the DVD of a fight that resulted in the deaths of 300 people. What a great guy. Widow is an egotistical bitch who thinks that all the others are just a publicity stunt. Cap is Cap, and that's cool. Thor played games with the President and didn't give his help while people were DYING in New York. Wasp can't keep her fucking mouth shut either.

 

The fact that Ultimate X-Men is already, or already has, done Dark Phoenix Saga speaks VOLUMES about the depths of Millar's incompetance.

 

Ultimate Venom is about as good as the Kingpin arc, that is to say: Above Average. But it hasn't kicked any ass yet.

[Guest Luke Cage]

Cage, do you like the hero your name is based on, or did you just like the name?

 

 

I'm just curious because I happen to be a big fan of Power Man and I hated his recent MAX series so I wanted to know what another fan thought about it.

Yes, I am a big fan of Luke Cage. I have a complete run of the book leading up to just before Iron Fist became a permanent co star. I have most of the issues after that up until the book was cancelled.

I appreciate the campy nature of the character. I get a big kick out of reading what the writers must have thought was "hip black lingo" for the time. I also appreciate the attempts by some writers to make the character less of a sterotype and more well rounded.

If you've ever picked up the book, you'd be treated to some of the lamest villains...one that pops into min right away is Mr. Fish. IIRC, he ws some poor slob who got mutated into a humnaoid fish...why he became a villain slips my mind, but MY! was he funny. The old /Hero For Hire/Powerman comics were full of stuff like that.

I picked up the recent version of the character and it was not for me. The old book was filled with bad steroetypes and horrid dialogue, but it was so bad it was good. I'm not really sure what audience they were shooting for with the new book. Then again, what with some of the stuff I see on BET, maybe Marvel should peddle the book on that network...

 

Back to Ultimates talk (sorta), how do some of you feel about the cavalier attitude some creators display regarding deadlines? A lot of fans seem to have fallen into lock step with the creators in repeating the "It's worth wating for" mantra.

My problem with this? They solicit these books as monthlies and can't/don't get them out on time. Why promise a monthly periodical if you can't won't deliver it when you say you will?

[Guest SP-1]

I greatly enjoy USM simply because of the slow pacing. I have alot of confidence that the Ultimate Venom arc is going to kick ALL kinds of arse once it really gets going, but they're taking their time with it. Which I like, personally, as a writer

[Guest the 1inch punch]

Um, Iron man was the guy who was talking about the DVD of a fight that resulted in the deaths of 300 people. What a great guy. Widow is an egotistical bitch who thinks that all the others are just a publicity stunt. Cap is Cap, and that's cool. Thor played games with the President and didn't give his help while people were DYING in New York. Wasp can't keep her fucking mouth shut either.

The Bit in Norway with Thor, Fury and Banner was pretty cool though

 

Yeah, Wasp can't keep her mouth shut. The last I say, Pym and his Bugs had done nasty things to her. Since the followup isn't here yet, anyone wanna fill me in

[Guest raptor]

Iron Man: I think that all that shit he does is an exterior, as explained in the issue where he tells Thor and Cap that he has a tumor. I disliked him until that issue, but I now see him as a more tortured soul trying to do what's right with the last amount of time he has left. He doesn't want the world to know he's dying: thus, despite the fact that he's becoming a better person, he's still being a dick.

 

Thor: Again, a character who's growing, and that's the most likeable thing for me in a character. His deal with the President was to help out New York, and join the Ultimates on a limited basis. He's still there, which speaks volumes, I think.

 

Black Widow: She's bitter about doing the Ultimates dirty work for so long, and is now getting her chance to shine as a member of the team. I just like her interaction with Hawkeye. Is that because Millar's Hawkeye kicks ass? Maybe.

 

Wasp: Likeable because of the sympathy thing. It's a cheap tactic, but the result is the same. She's just a talkative character, I think, and "she can't keep her mouth shut" isn't enough for me to hate her.

 

I agree about Ultimate X-Men, but I'm really enjoying the Venom arc, but then again, I like The Kingpin one a lot too.

[Guest pochorenella]

I'm somewhat of a follower of the Ultimate books, specially Ultimate Spider-Man, which I think is one of the best titles out there right now.

 

But I'm ashamed to say that I haven't followed Spidey's title since the end of the "Legacy" storyline in USM. Up until that point I've been totally pleased with the stories and the way Spidey/Peter has been handled, and Mary Jane also. I think Peter's relationship with Aunt May is a strong point in the series, too. After that I can't really say so I can't comment on Venom or Rhyno, but I'll try to get up to date soon.

Thing is, I didn't mind Peter's slow build towards becoming Spider-Man on the first few issues, and I don't mind the somewhat "rushed" introduction of new characters like Gwen and their new approach in personality or demeanor. If I want to remenber the old Gwen, I might as well check out my old Spidey issues. The point I think is not to totally rehash old stories and introduce the same tipe of characters all over again. This is a new Universe, the Ultimate Marvel Universe. Some stories are sure to be based on previous ones but the real appeal is to make them interesting all over again while introducing new spins and surprises. Some people feel that it's too soon to introduce Venom in this series. You wanted to wait what, till USM #300 or what? Until Ultimate Spidey went to the Ultimate Secret Wars? Come on!

 

Ultimate X-Men I've only followed up to the "Weapon X" storyline, and while I liked it, it's really not my cup of tea, since I'm not that big of a follower of the X-Men, although I try to read most of the titles. Wolverine has been handled wonderfully here and I hope some of this can be translated to the regular Universe Wolvie.

 

The Ultimates? All good IMO. Iron Man was somewhat of a jerk at first, but I started to warm up to him lately, after his conversation with Cap. Captain America? He's great, a great soldier, and a great character. Thor is very funny I think, I still don't totally dig him, but I don't dislike him either. Nick Fury being black? I don't mind at all, and I find him pretty cool sometimes how he acts.

 

There's my two cents. Thanks for listening. I'll keep an eye on this great thread for further discussion.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

No one wanted Ultimate Venom to come as late as 300, but it would be better if the series progressed IN SOME WAY simalar to the originals. I would have liked to see more of the Lee/Ditko villains before debuting a character just to pop a sales chart.

 

 

The Ultimate books arn't retellings at all; they're a Cliff's Notes of the good arcs the character has had.

 

Funny, no mentioned my issues with USM as far as redundant storytelling, and the horrible treatment of Kraven. I smell question-dodging.

 

The fact that Millar needed to pull out Dark Phinoex only four arcs into the book is very telling of how he operates. He looks for whatever will pop a sales chart. So EVERY MONTH becomes a special event.

 

Oh and by the way, if it takes 8 issues do Green Goblin in Ultimate S-M, and in the standerd MU it only took one, wouldn't that mean we should be waiting LONGER for stories like Gwen Stacy's Bridge Incendent? Because it's taking them longer to get through the arc.

[Guest Luke Cage]

If my (admittedly limited) exposure to Mr. Bendis' pacing tells me anything, it would take her a whole issue to fall and another issue for Spidey to save her. j/k

[Guest pochorenella]

Funny, no mentioned my issues with USM as far as redundant storytelling, and the horrible treatment of Kraven. I smell question-dodging

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to look like I was dodging your question. It's just that I felt I was almost rambling nonsense right there at the end and wanted to stop.

 

Regarding Kraven, I think you should remember that, this being the "Ultimate" Universe and not the "regular" Marvel Universe, supporting characters are all fair game with their abilities, personalities, etc. So the "Ultimate" Kraven turned out to be a Crocodile Hunter-wannabe. I find no disrespect at all. It's a different character than the long-deceased hunter in the regular Spidey-mythos. Maybe next time he returns he honed his abilities and drank all those potions to enhance his strenght and senses. Let's see if that happens.

 

Redundant storytelling? I agree with you somewhat, but that doesn't deter me in enjoying the new takes in the stories. Some are better than others, as usual. But I think that comes with the territory in trying to re-introduce long-familiar characters which we all know and love so much. Some people are bound to like it and some will hate it. I mostly like it, so no complaints on my part.

 

This is a great thread, let's keep the discussion going!

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Funny, no mentioned my issues with USM as far as redundant storytelling, and the horrible treatment of Kraven. I smell question-dodging

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to look like I was dodging your question. It's just that I felt I was almost rambling nonsense right there at the end and wanted to stop.

 

Regarding Kraven, I think you should remember that, this being the "Ultimate" Universe and not the "regular" Marvel Universe, supporting characters are all fair game with their abilities, personalities, etc. So the "Ultimate" Kraven turned out to be a Crocodile Hunter-wannabe. I find no disrespect at all. It's a different character than the long-deceased hunter in the regular Spidey-mythos. Maybe next time he returns he honed his abilities and drank all those potions to enhance his strenght and senses. Let's see if that happens.

 

Redundant storytelling? I agree with you somewhat, but that doesn't deter me in enjoying the new takes in the stories. Some are better than others, as usual. But I think that comes with the territory in trying to re-introduce long-familiar characters which we all know and love so much. Some people are bound to like it and some will hate it. I mostly like it, so no complaints on my part.

 

This is a great thread, let's keep the discussion going!

It's not about the character. You don't build someone for four issues to have them job in one punch, it's stupid. It's bad story-telling. Not to mention the fact that Kraven was the most anticipated villain when Ultimate Spider-Man was announced. He's always been one of Spiedy's toughest enemies, this was misrepresentation of characters who have to be *somewhat* simalar to their counterparts. (Or it's not a retelling as we've been told by EVERYONE.)

 

I have a simalar beef about Green Goblin, who has, to this point, NEVER been beaten by Spider-Man. He's been knocked off a bridge by police gunfire, and he's been stabbed by Harry. That, again, is just bad storytelling. It also takes away from Norman's frustration at being "foiled again" by Spider-Man since he seems to have bigger problems with SHIELD. (Who ruined that arc, IMO.) GG and SM are supposed to be ARCHENEMIES, not a side-feud while Norman battles SHIELD. That's BAD storytelling.

[Guest raptor]

I didn't mean to seem like I was question dodging, but I didn't really feel the need to respond to the Kraven comment.

 

Like ponchorella said, this comic is a different beast than the original Spider-Man tales. It (the comic) doesn't have to keep the characters true to the original, since it's not so much a retelling as more of an Elseworld thing. It's telling the story of Spider-Man as if it began in this generation, so things are going to be different.

 

Kraven's character was a not-so-subtle representation of the reality T.V. genre, and his trouncing was showing that real heroism will always triumph over that fake crap on T.V.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I didn't mean to seem like I was question dodging, but I didn't really feel the need to respond to the Kraven comment.

 

Like ponchorella said, this comic is a different beast than the original Spider-Man tales. It (the comic) doesn't have to keep the characters true to the original, since it's not so much a retelling as more of an Elseworld thing. It's telling the story of Spider-Man as if it began in this generation, so things are going to be different.

 

Kraven's character was a not-so-subtle representation of the reality T.V. genre, and his trouncing was showing that real heroism will always triumph over that fake crap on T.V.

1. I don't care if it's new. I thought it was BAD. And if you're going to call it Spider-Man you are KIDDING YOURSELF to think it won't be compared. They should be upping the ante, not making excuses. Oh and using the Kraven character to bash reality is stupider than the other excuses. Here's a character with a potential that was never realized in the original MU, and they do even worse here.

 

2. This is not an Elseworlds, everyone from Quesada to Bendis has been calling this a RETELLING.

[Guest raptor]

I didn't mean to seem like I was question dodging, but I didn't really feel the need to respond to the Kraven comment.

 

Like ponchorella said, this comic is a different beast than the original Spider-Man tales. It (the comic) doesn't have to keep the characters true to the original, since it's not so much a retelling as more of an Elseworld thing. It's telling the story of Spider-Man as if it began in this generation, so things are going to be different.

 

Kraven's character was a not-so-subtle representation of the reality T.V. genre, and his trouncing was showing that real heroism will always triumph over that fake crap on T.V.

1. I don't care if it's new. I thought it was BAD. And if you're going to call it Spider-Man you are KIDDING YOURSELF to think it won't be compared. They should be upping the ante, not making excuses. Oh and using the Kraven character to bash reality is stupider than the other excuses. Here's a character with a potential that was never realized in the original MU, and they do even worse here.

 

2. This is not an Elseworlds, everyone from Quesada to Bendis has been calling this a RETELLING.

1) I don't mean that they shouldn't be compared, only that to decry Bendis' version as inferior because it doesn't jive with the original is a fool's argument.

 

2) Could you direct me to a place where Bendis said that (don't really trust Jemas)? If he did say that, and I believe that you've seen it, then they're wrong about their own project. Perhaps they started with that intention, but with the expansion of the universe, this is not a retelling.

 

Sorry for my brief comments, but I have to get to class. I'll be back soon to continue the discussion.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

1.) I decry Bendis' as inferior for many reasons, the LEAST of which is unfaithfulness to the originals. The first arc was fantastic, and it was different.

 

2.) Quesada said on the Spider-man DVD that it was a retelling of the Spider-Man story with Peter as a teenager in the year 2002.

[Guest raptor]

1.) I decry Bendis' as inferior for many reasons, the LEAST of which is unfaithfulness to the originals. The first arc was fantastic, and it was different.

 

2.) Quesada said on the Spider-man DVD that it was a retelling of the Spider-Man story with Peter as a teenager in the year 2002.

I realize that Bendis is an aquired taste. Some readers are put of by his pacing and dialouge, so I can't fault you for that.

 

What I disagree with is the fact your arguments this far seem to be that you don't like Ultimate Spider-Man because signifigant events differ between canons. For example, Justin Hammer and Iron Man are very different from their MU counterparts, so their prior relationship in the comics has almost no weight to Ultimate titles. Hammer never had a relationship with Iron Man in the Ultimate universe, so there is little cause to be upset because the writers didn't start it.

 

Okay, I'll concede that the intent of the series was a retelling of the Spider-Man story (and that my Elseworlds analogy wasn't used correctly). However, when something is referred as a retelling of a myth (a category which any cultural icons can fall into), it is usually meant to say that this is something that moves away from the source material. IE: "Smallville" is a "retelling" of the Superman myth.

 

So, would you rather that Bendis completely rehash all the old Spider-Man stories instead of using what he needs from the source material to craft new mythos?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

1. I disliked the Justin Hammer was handled simply because it was unfair to whoever decides to do an Ultimate Iron Man. It would be like killing off Ultimate Leader in X-Men before he got to fight Ultimate Hulk. It could be entertaining, but it isn't fair. I'm sure you can see my point in this.

 

2. I would rather Bendis tell a SOMEWHAT faithful rendition of Spider-man. I'm no Nazi about it, but I would like to see things devoloped in RELATIVE EQUIVELENCE to their origins in the MU, If only because if you build Capt. Stacy for 40 issues, his death means something. It's just good storytelling. I want the storytelling to be as good as the originals. Not the same as, but AS GOOD AS. I think that he's not concentrating on building a consistent title, but instead looking to doing every arc that will sell.

[Guest raptor]

I can see a lot of your points, actually. I understand, and admit I was wrong, about Justin Hammer. I didn't even think about the possibility of Ultimate Iron Man, and I suppose that is robbing someone of a major cog in IM's continuity.

 

I also understand, yet still disagree with your second point. I think we're hung up on "As Good As," because I think that USM has been.

 

This is a very refreshing discussion, actually. Well played, Zsasz, well played. *golf clap*

[Guest pochorenella]

I had a very nice and long post ready but my computer fucked up and now it's lost. I won't repeat it word for word but basically what I wanted to say is:

 

The point about Justin Hammer is totally valid. Being a big Iron Man fan myself I find that the possibilities for interaction between Ultimate Justin and UIM could have been tremendous. Based in our 21st Century business/industrial wars and current economics, the possible storylines between them could have been memorable.

 

And about USM, I too understand your qualms about continuity and respect for the source material. Wether it's a retelling (I'm getting tyred of the word) or re-interpretation is topic for long debate. I also think most of the stories are AS GOOD AS the originals, and I'm sticking to that. That's my taste, and if you don't like it then fine. I completely respect your point of view, too.

 

So far we've had a polite and intelligent discussion on the subject, even though I didn't contribute that much to it because I enjoyed the exchange between raptor and Zsasz. Well done, guys.

[Guest Sassquatch]

I don't think any of you would want me to put my two cents into this discussion.

 

 

Most of you who posted in this thread already know my feelings on the topic anyways.

[Guest HellSpawn]

My $0.02

 

U.Spidey.

I havent read very much of this one, just the 1st 6 issues and a little of the Venom story. BUT, I know something about some plots, like the Gwen thing. You said they killed Gwen’s dad? already? WOW ! Whats next? Jackal and his clon stuff? Oh well, about what I read....

 

Mmm... Actually I cant even remember something, I guess it must be a good sign. I rememer stuff from late 80s Spidey books but I cant remember some plot from a 2K1 (2K?) book.

 

The Venom twist was, different but... Oh whatever, better move to a book actually read.

 

U.X-Men.

Never was interested on this one, only for “collector thing”, but I recently got #16-27, World Tour, Hellfire and Magneto returns 1st chapter. Oh yeah, and the 2 Gambit (my Fav X men) issues.

 

Good things (IMO) first:

 

Magneto as an Ultimate Badass rules.

 

Gambit story was nice and a semi-fresh origin.

 

I like this new Cyke & Jean.

 

The Iceman lawsuit and Kitty’s mom thing was nice. Very real for this times.

 

Nice hidden plot about Prof. X being a manipulator... I think its a good possibility, you know, Magneto also thought about that, thats why he got the helmet.

 

Bad Issues:

 

So, in every Universe Wolverine must be a main eventer and THE GUY, damn, even Colossus wants him?

 

Of course, if Xavier is soo good to be manipulating his students... how in the heck he didnt saw the Shaw betrayal?

 

So, the Phoenix thing was or wasnt real? oh and btw, Jean killed several people, and what‘s Xavier’s punishment for her? Oh yeah, I guess she is grounded for this weekend.

 

I think Zsasz said it, some of this guys are not likable, Xavier cares zip about his son or his wife (“We didnt talk in weeks” & “He only cares about that awful american wrestling and playstation”) but Eric talk with him and faster than a speeding bullet he went to a “sacred” mission and mindchange a bunch of mutant killers, later Xavier is crushed ‘cause Peter killed Proteus, mostly because HE KILLED not because he killed his son and also Betsy, BUT, again, went to talk to Erik and only ‘cause Erik wants to know more about Xavier BS he thinks again and goes back to “School is open.“ How about the Proteus yarn? David said something about Australia been in the tour just to get more signed books for Xavier’s book.

 

I remember some of you guys talked about Millar tryng to create some kind of sin based flaws to make the Ultimates “real”, well, I guess Xavier’s sin is Arrogance.

 

What the Heck (remember we’re talkin about a Marvel book... you cant say HELL in a Marvel book) is happening with this writers? I know a dead in comics is not always definitive, but Bendis already killed Capt. Stacy, Justin Hammer (one of you guys already talk about him) and turned the GG into a freakish monster, and brought Venom. Millar killed Sebastian Shaw, Psylocke, Hammerhead (a Spidey’s villian) create the Acolytes, brought Proteus and... some kind of Dark Phoenix plot, I think he even drop the seed to Excalibur... Oh and that Xavier is manipulating his students could be the seed of Onslaught. So

 

Ultimate War.

Good, again Magneto is kicking ass. I just need to read #3-4.

 

Ultimates.

Capt. America is really good. Fury is good too.

 

I just have #7, good one (I gave **** I think in my review, it was exaggerated.)

Luke Cage said something about “I agree with you about the characters being "unlikable bastards" It seems like some people who write super hero comics don't really LIKE superhero comics. It's a shame.”. Agreed, Its a shame. Why I should read a book where the heroes are just a bunch of MF? because that made them “real” ?

 

and for a bonus... U. Elektra.

Nice story, I like the way Rucka handle his women, but now that I read the whole yarn, is good but maybe a little to slow, how many times this Trey guy went free, and in fact... Trey didnt get punishment, so Mel was raped just to be a subplot? What about El’s dad? what he thinks about this?

 

Also, DD was just a supporting character, in fact, he wasnt even there, only Matt Murdock was in the story.

 

 

 

You know, after reading some “Ultimate” books, it looks like several things happen outside the book time, meaning, I got UXM#24-27 and UWar #1-2 and Im still looking for the moment when Scott was killed, I guess it happen in some momment after #24 but I never saw it, Trey will be punished? when? what about all that deaths in Europe caused by Proteus? another one, when the X-men move off of the HQ ? in UWar #1 they’re already out.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Oh and Sass....

 

I probably know what you think 'bout UM, but...

 

I like the way you turned yourself into a HULK when some title didnt likes you... so lets hear what you have on mind for Millar & Bendis Universe.

[Guest Sassquatch]

If this all sounds a little bit familiar than you are correct in thinking that.

 

Ultimate Spider-Man has been monotonous for the last 20 or so issues with Bendis dragging these stories out for an ungodly number of issues that could have been easily resolved in less than half of the issues that he has taken to do each storyarc. This is another reason why TPB's are hurting the industry because the writer's are expected to do these long and drawn out storyarc's so that they have some pages to put into a TPB. Most of the issues in between the start and the finish of the storyarc's have been filler and could have been chopped down to half of that number.

 

The concept of Ultimate Spider-Man is not original nor is it as good as most fans believe it is. But it is the best title that Bendis is currently putting out which is hot and does have it's decent moments of interest. Bendis is just getting to live out his fanboy wet dreams of "creating" his own version of Spider-Man which is "hip" or "k00l" with today's youth. Yet there are thousands of other writers out there past and present who would have killed to get to do what Bendis is doing and many of these people smoke Bendis as a writer six ways from Sunday. But Marvel decided to take the easy and lazy way out of actually having some necessary backstory to their books and felt that Spidey needed to be entirely revamped since the company was too incompetent in finding a writer who truly knew what made Spider-Man a cool character to read about in the first place.

 

I downright despise Mark Millar and he is the perfect example of what is wrong with today's comic book creators.

 

Millar writes for shock value, plain and simple. Shock value writers are just like they sound. They can maintain a couple issues of non-stop action with a little comedy/romance/suspense thrown involve. But the style gets old very quickly. The writer has now shot his load with the BIG climax and has no real build-up to the story he/she is trying to tell. Quick and dirty is what the results of the build-up are and by the next story arc, everything is either forgotten or never mentioned again. There are no long-term results that have occurred from the story and in the end the story was like a getting a blowjob from some chick and then moving on after you have shot your wad.

 

For whatever the reason, Millar feels that every story he writes must have big explosions and gore all around. This might all look great on paper and might lead some fanboys to get a chubby from the destruction but after the story has wrapped up, it does not mean anything and has no lingering affects from the story. Millar does not show the consequences or results from his massive war and all we know is that there were some causalities and a big fight. Why should people care about the battle then if it heeds no actual standing results? It's all for naught and is throwaway in the long run after everything is said and done.

 

The attitude Millar holds in regards to his work is also a factor that is shown in his finished product. He feels that his work his so great that he does not have to change-up his cookie cutter style of writing. The man honestly believes that his shit doesn’t stink and while a lot of people might agree with that assessment, there are other people that would be willing to beg differently. Millar became big at a time when the industry was in creative limbo and when Millar burst onto the scene with his work with the Authority, the fans ate it up. Millar was different from most of the writers out there at the time and combine that with the fans apathy or disgust with the product in 1999/2000, then the perfect stage is set for the man to receive the critic blowjob from fans and critics alike. Millar showed promise when he first started out and many people (myself included) thought that he would grow as a writer and be able to change up his style whenever he would want/need to.

 

Millar does big battles and gore very well if you have not read a lot of his work like I have. But now it is all masturbatory because if you have read his work on the Authority, then you can figure out how an Ultimate X-men or/and Ultimates story will build-up and end. Reading a Millar book is like watching Gone In 60 Seconds and coming. You watch the movie, some cool things happen and then the movie is over. As you leave the theater, you go back and think of the movie like what your favorite part was or whom you thought did the best job as their character. But when you get home, there are two things that will happen to you and this is where the analogy to Millar comes in:

 

1. You will continue to reflect on the movie after it ended and it will stick in your mind for an amount of time.

 

Or...

 

2. You will forget about the movie after everything is said and done and you will move on with the fact that you blew 2 hours at a theatre and got your money's worth.

 

Simply put, Millar writes a shock style book that will get fans talking about it but in the long run, it's a throwaway that will be replaced with another installment from another Millar story with big fights and needless gore. Rinse, lather and repeat. His books don't make you stop and think about what he just wrote and that is what makes someone a good writer. Someone who can leave a meaningful and lasting impression as a writer is what helpes someone is remembered 10 years down the road.

 

Of course people still remember Rob Liesfeld and Toad McFucker but that's because they have outstayed their welcome and won't go away because they refuse to take a hint.

 

The statement above about Mark Millar reflects on what I think about his work on the Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men.