JasonX 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2003 <I had one HUGE problem with last night's DAY ONE episode. And that is, in The Shield's pilot it gives the impression that Vic and Aceveda are working together for the first time.> Actually the pilot shows that not only did Aceveda and Vic know each other but that Vic had been at the Barn longer than Aceveda as opposed to them being assigned to the Barn at the same time. It also made it clear that Vic and the Strike Team had been been involved in illegal activities like sponsoring drug dealers before Aceveda entered their lives.... <I thought that no one at the Barn knew Aceveda but everyone had already worked with and respected Vic, regardless of his methods because of his track record of getting results.> Actually the pilot showed that everyone knew Mackie was corrupt (as well as being corrupt LONG before Aceveda came into Vic's life) but that Aceveda was the only one who was refusing to turn a blind eye to it. <Which is why Claudette advised Aceveda to back off of Vic when he made it clear to her that he wanted to take Vic down.> Actually that scene was supposed to show that Claudette respects Vic to the point that she's willing to turn a blind eye to Vic's evil because he made the city safe and to set things up so that when Claudette found out HOW corrupt and evil Vic was that it would give her decision to go after Vic more depth as Claudette would feel utterly betrayed at knowing how evil Vic can be when he needs to be.... <However, last night we see that Aceveda and Vic arrived at the Barn at the same time and Vic even said "Yes sir" to him at one point. I was like, "what happened to the 'I don't havta listen to you, not even on Cinco de Mayo!' Vic that I know?"> That was retconning on the part of the writers. By changing things so that Vic and Aceveda were inititally friendly with each other when they first met, it gives the writers an excuse to play Vic and Aceveda as being willing to be friendly with each other in terms of how they interact with each other as opposed to following what was established in season 1 which showed that the two were so fundementally different in terms of ideology that it takes an a crisis of monumental proportions to get them to work together... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonX 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2003 I would love if Dutch became the focal point of Season Three and they left Vic to toil around the background and then Give the show BACK to Vic for the final season... If the writers don't bring Ronnie back onto the team, I wouldn't mind seeing the writers shipping Dutch onto Vic's team to replace him. Given that we've seen that Dutch can be just as nasty and cruel as Vic when properly pushed, I wouldn't mind seeing a season or have a season devoted to Mackie taking Dutch under his wing only to have Dutch stage a coup-de-ta and boot Mackie from the STRIKE team and take control over it and showing Vic trying to retake control of the team.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 6, 2003 I wouldn't want Dutch on the Strike Team, I like Dutch's character just where he is. Although I was funny seeing him get harassed like he did back in the day. But does the old cop who got outshined by Dutch just leave by day 2? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonX 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Although I was funny seeing him get harassed like he did back in the day. But does the old cop who got outshined by Dutch just leave by day 2? I have no clue. Watching the episode, I thought that they would have given the character a reason for not being around like say having him throwing a hissy-fit that Dutch upstaged him and getting reassigned back to his old spot as punishment by Aceveda (which would have worked extremely well with the duel plotline of Vic being terrified tha Aceveda was going to shitcan him, by having one of his old friends get fired by his superior). My guess is that he's still at the Barn but that we just haven't seen him. Speaking of further unresolved plot-holes: 1. We aren't shown the incident that made Dani and Vic close friends/occassional fuck-buddies 2. We don't know if Vic is the father of the hooker's son. 3. We don't learn anything about Ronnie or how he got made part of the Strike Team. 4. We don't know how Aceveda discovered that Vic was a dirty cop or any of the information required for his "show and tell" field trip with Terry in the pilot... Not to mention the continuity problems involving Terry, who goes from being an cop sent into the group to investigate Vic so that Aceveda can bust him to being a ringer put onto the Strike Force to take over if Vic didn't meet his quota in terms of arrests..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 6, 2003 2. We don't know if Vic is the father of the hooker's son. 3. We don't learn anything about Ronnie or how he got made part of the Strike Team. Vic explained he wasn't the dad last season when he brought the kid home to his wife. Ronnie just kinda fell into like Lem I guess. They really don't explain it any other way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Madmartigan21 Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Although I was funny seeing him get harassed like he did back in the day. But does the old cop who got outshined by Dutch just leave by day 2? I have no clue. Watching the episode, I thought that they would have given the character a reason for not being around like say having him throwing a hissy-fit that Dutch upstaged him and getting reassigned back to his old spot as punishment by Aceveda (which would have worked extremely well with the duel plotline of Vic being terrified tha Aceveda was going to shitcan him, by having one of his old friends get fired by his superior). My guess is that he's still at the Barn but that we just haven't seen him. He was talking about retiring. So I imagine he did. I believe he was the cop that was investigating the murder of the husband of the woman Dutch is currently banging. If I remember correctly, in that episode she was looking for a detective that Dutch informed had retired. That's because (as stated on the Season 1 DVD commentaries) they are building up a Claudette/Vic showdown which is based upon the fact that Claudette and Vic's working relationship is based upon the fact that Claudette is the only cop in on the show that Vic actually respects/wants her respect and the fact that Claudette, while she respects Vic's ability to get results, deep down knows that he's evil and should be stopped... This opens another plothole. It's made quite clear that Vic and Claudette meet for the first time during their first day at the Barn. Before she started investigating him, how the hell did Vic know that she was as good as she is, to garner as much respect for her ability as he has. In season one, the episode where the two of them are paired together (incidentally the same episode that I mentioned above), it was quite clear that he already had a WORLD of respect for her. Seeing as how they would have barely know each other, and worked together even less, what's this respect based on? I think having Vic kill Terry in the first episode was a HUGE mistake in retrospect. Three quarters of the way through the first season I though that. It seems WAY out of character for Vic after seeing all the other episodes for at least two reasons. First, Vic is too smart to have to just resort to killing Terry as his first option. Why not frame him? Not even on a large scale. Just enough to give him the power to kick Terry of the Strike TEAM (it really irritates me that people keep referring to them as the Strike FORCE). Or he could have framed him well enough to get him fired. ANYTHING short of killing him. Which brings me to the second reason it seems out of character now. Vic has way to much respect and love for cops in general to take out one of his own as though he were some common street thug. I think the writers probably never thought the show was going to last, so they decided to have this shock ending to the first episode. Other than that, Vic has never really done anything EVIL as I keep reading him described in this thread. You're shown, that despite his methods, he does A LOT more good at the end of the day than bad. You start to believe that the ends do indeed justify HIS means. But killing a cop? That's the ONLY thing that could possibly make Vic unlikable as a character. But I just don't buy that he would have ever done it. It tainted the character unnecessarily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TUS_02 Report post Posted March 6, 2003 2. We don't know if Vic is the father of the hooker's son. 3. We don't learn anything about Ronnie or how he got made part of the Strike Team. Vic explained he wasn't the dad last season when he brought the kid home to his wife. Ronnie just kinda fell into like Lem I guess. They really don't explain it any other way. Lemonhead had a connection through Shane, which is how he got in... I missed what they said about Ronnie because I was laughing at the mustache joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 6, 2003 I think having Vic kill Terry in the first episode was a HUGE mistake in retrospect. Three quarters of the way through the first season I though that. It seems WAY out of character for Vic after seeing all the other episodes for at least two reasons. First, Vic is too smart to have to just resort to killing Terry as his first option. Why not frame him? Not even on a large scale. Just enough to give him the power to kick Terry of the Strike TEAM (it really irritates me that people keep referring to them as the Strike FORCE). Or he could have framed him well enough to get him fired. ANYTHING short of killing him. Which brings me to the second reason it seems out of character now. Vic has way to much respect and love for cops in general to take out one of his own as though he were some common street thug. I still like the way this went down, it let you know right off the bat this Vic wasn't a good guy...although Day One really hurt this whole thing more then it helped it. I was hoping Day One would've taken place a couple years before the first episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crucifixio Jones Report post Posted March 6, 2003 I'll agree that this Day One episode certainly created more problems than it solved. It's a shame that a few guys on a messageboard can EASILY and QUICKLY point out continuity errors that guys who are paid to do such things can't. As far as Vic shooting Terry in the pilot, I've ALWAYS said it was a huge mistake. As the lead and anti-hero of the entire show, I thought it would be a tremendous uphill battle to get the audience to gain any sympathy or support for Vic after he shoots another cop in the face and kills him. Looking back on it now it was terribly out of character for him. I thought they are either gonna make this guy so unlikeable that the show gets cancelled and he dies in the final episode, or they're gonna have to do some serious backtracking to clean this up. I understand wanting to have Vic do something to show us that The Shield is going to be different in the pilot, but having him gun down another cop in cold blood, we see now, just isn't Vic's way. And correct me if I'm wrong, but this Day One episode took place 14 months before The Shield pilot, right? That means that the detective who Dutch and Claudette were working with didn't necessarily have to leave the very next day, he had a 14 month window where he could've left at any time in that span. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Madmartigan21 Report post Posted March 6, 2003 And correct me if I'm wrong, but this Day One episode took place 14 months before The Shield pilot, right? That means that the detective who Dutch and Claudette were working with didn't necessarily have to leave the very next day, he had a 14 month window where he could've left at any time in that span. I believe it said "14 months earlier" after showing the "previously on the Shield" scenes. I think that means Day One was supposed to take place 14 months ago from NOW. If we want to use real time as a judge that would place Day One just over two months before the pilot. The problem with using real time, is that I'm CERTAIN that Vic says something about it being 6 weeks since the whole Gilroy thing during the second season premiere. The more I think about it the more I think not only that Day One was a wasted opportunity, but an out and out mess to the series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 7, 2003 And correct me if I'm wrong, but this Day One episode took place 14 months before The Shield pilot, right? That means that the detective who Dutch and Claudette were working with didn't necessarily have to leave the very next day, he had a 14 month window where he could've left at any time in that span. I believe it said "14 months earlier" after showing the "previously on the Shield" scenes. I think that means Day One was supposed to take place 14 months ago from NOW. If we want to use real time as a judge that would place Day One just over two months before the pilot. That's how I saw it. They confused us more then they helped us. Bastards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 12, 2003 I hate to sound like a broken record, but another great episode. I liked they way they brought Gilroy back actually, and I like the way they sent him off...paid his own hitman to set him on stand by. I like the new strike team member...unless he's a rat, which I hope not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonX 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2003 I hate to sound like a broken record, but another great episode. I liked they way they brought Gilroy back actually, and I like the way they sent him off...paid his own hitman to set him on stand by. I like the new strike team member...unless he's a rat, which I hope not. Having the new Strike Team member be a rat would work since 1. it would bring Ronnie back and give him a new running gag to play with in the form of Ronnie always bringing up the fact that the foursome can't trust anyone outside the original four and 2. would give the writers the excuse to finally give some closure towards the Terry storyline by having Vic finally confronting the fact that he killed Terry and having him come to grips with it while having to find away to neutralize the rat while not repeating his earlier crime.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EQ Report post Posted March 12, 2003 I don't want the new strike team guy to be a rat. I like him already. This episode was GREAT. Having Gilroy pay off his own hitman was just incredible. I LOVE THIS SHOW. Shield owns 24 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted March 12, 2003 Question: During the first 5 minutes parts of the show weren't shown due to feed problems (I'm guessing). It happened during the first showing -- did this happen to anyone else?... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 12, 2003 Not for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Madmartigan21 Report post Posted March 12, 2003 I hate to sound like a broken record, but another great episode. I liked they way they brought Gilroy back actually, and I like the way they sent him off...paid his own hitman to set him on stand by. I like the new strike team member...unless he's a rat, which I hope not. Having the new Strike Team member be a rat would work since 1. it would bring Ronnie back and give him a new running gag to play with in the form of Ronnie always bringing up the fact that the foursome can't trust anyone outside the original four and 2. would give the writers the excuse to finally give some closure towards the Terry storyline by having Vic finally confronting the fact that he killed Terry and having him come to grips with it while having to find away to neutralize the rat while not repeating his earlier crime.... I thought they already established that the new Strike Team member IS a rat. At the end of the episode in the meeting with the Chief and Laney, they played a tape. It was Vic talking about how they don't have to cross the line to intimidate, or something to that effect, explaining what they do. Who else would he have been talking to? I must say that Claudette is BAD ASS. She's the best kind of bad ass too. She doesn't need to get the least bit physical, but she has the balls (metaphorically speaking of course) to take on Vic AND intimidate him. Now THAT'S bad ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted March 12, 2003 I believe that tape came from a tape recorder Gilroy had on him which I believe Shane found. I'm figuring Laney made some sort of deal with Gilroy. At least that's what i got from the tape stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted March 12, 2003 "I thought they already established that the new Strike Team member IS a rat. At the end of the episode in the meeting with the Chief and Laney, they played a tape. It was Vic talking about how they don't have to cross the line to intimidate, or something to that effect, explaining what they do. Who else would he have been talking to?" I could be (and probably am) wrong, but I thought Vic and Gillroy (sp) just re-dubbed the found tape because it seemed to show that the Strike Team wasn't doing anything wrong. (Didn't the tape say that all the civil-rights violations were myths but it makes the Strike Team more intimidating?) And I love Claudette -- I hope that she doesn't get written out since her and Vic are feuding... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted March 12, 2003 I missed the part when they actually found the tape/tape recorder. Did they find it on Gilroy or not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted March 12, 2003 Yes they did. Vic missed the tape recorder the first time he searched him, but then they got him in his boxers and Gilroy got busted... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 12, 2003 They made a new tape then left it at the appartment before they got Gilroy out of there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TUS_02 Report post Posted March 12, 2003 From what I got... I think Laney and Claudette are on the same "side" now. I knew Laney wasn't gone gone when she was dismissed... it would have been too simple for a character like her. While I don't think the new kid is a rat... he'll say something at the wrong time to the wrong person but I would love to see this turn to Strike Team vs Ronnie. Money train is going to fucking rock! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 12, 2003 I was glad they went back with the money train deal...could be a cool way to end the season...maybe they get busted robbing the money train to end the season... God I love this show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted March 12, 2003 I don't think the new guys a rat, but I think at some point his actions are going to comprimise the whole money trai situation. I've got a weird feeling with Gilroy telling Vic not to get too greedy. I'm wondering right now if the plan is to resurrect his character at some point out of Mexico. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 19, 2003 *BUMP* Don't want to have to look everywhere for the thread after the episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted March 19, 2003 God I love this show. (Paraphrase) "Vick parked less than 6 inches from the curb" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- I was howling throughout the commercials at that line... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted March 19, 2003 By my count only 2 episodes left this season, money train HAS to be the final. I was yelling to yell out "You motherfuckin rat!" when he followed her in the bathroom...I like this guy. Plus Ronnie's back, good times. I have a bad feeling that the season's going to end with them taking down the money train...ONLY to be caught by Claudette. Was the store owner the same guy who played Willow's magic dealer last year on Buffy? Also played the vamp Buffy had to face in "Helpless" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted March 19, 2003 The Money Train HAS to be a cliff-hanger, and I know I'm going to be p*ssed at waiting a year for Season 3... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted March 19, 2003 By my count only 2 episodes left this season, money train HAS to be the final. I was yelling to yell out "You motherfuckin rat!" when he followed her in the bathroom...I like this guy. Plus Ronnie's back, good times. I have a bad feeling that the season's going to end with them taking down the money train...ONLY to be caught by Claudette. Was the store owner the same guy who played Willow's magic dealer last year on Buffy? Also played the vamp Buffy had to face in "Helpless" Yes it was that same guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
