Heyman demoted as head writer of Smackdown

[Guest RedJed]

They still look almost the same aside from the better wrestlers being on one show.

I tend to disagree, there are plenty of workers on the Raw side that could work their asses off and have if given the opportunity

 

Did anyone ever think a guy like Edge would be in any MOTY candidates by years end? How did that happen anyway FINALLY when Heyman was writing Smackdown?

 

For example a guy like Chavo, he was never really noticed by the masses until they booked him in the matches on Smackdown in a better position.

 

And if it all just comes down to the better workers were on Smackdown, well then why was Smackdown right after the split up until about July just as boring to watch as Raw? Just adding Eddy and Benoit (and losing Jericho, Storm, Christian, and Test) cant drastically change a program THAT much as it did with Smackdown overnight like it did.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Just adding Eddy and Benoit (and losing Jericho, Storm, Christian, and Test) cant drastically change a program THAT much as it did with Smackdown overnight like it did.

 

Oh yes it can. Being that Guerrero and Benoit are like, you know, the two best ever and stuff.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Big woop. What exactly is Heyman's "new role" supposed to be? Supposedly it's the job Russo had for all of a couple hours before getting thrown out, but I was never clear on what they were going to have Vinnie Ru do either.

 

Heyman's been writing for both shows for a while now. Assuming that he's still involved in the creative process, what does this change? From the looks of it, the only difference is that now Paul can have an easier time taking credit for all the good stuff. Maybe he realized people were starting to smell the crap steaming from his writing?

 

It's funny that people talk of Smackdown being the better show when it has made zero headway in ratings since Paul "took over." Actually, as I recall, this year's sweeps period saw Raw average closer to what it drew last year than Smackdown! did. Funny how no one mentions that when discussing Smackdown!'s "success."

[Guest RedJed]

It's funny that people talk of Smackdown being the better show when it has made zero headway in ratings since Paul "took over." Actually, as I recall, this year's sweeps period saw Raw average closer to what it drew last year than Smackdown! did. Funny how no one mentions that when discussing Smackdown!'s "success."

Well seeing how the brand split hasn't actually been done correctly, its hard for the two shows ratings to really branch off into other directions, wouldn't you say?

 

Both shows have dropped in the ratings, as has every other facet of the companys business other than DVD sales. Basing the success or lack of success on the ratings doesn't mean much at this point, not until they full create this split the right way.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Did anyone ever think a guy like Edge would be in any MOTY candidates by years end? How did that happen anyway FINALLY when Heyman was writing Smackdown?

 

For example a guy like Chavo, he was never really noticed by the masses until they booked him in the matches on Smackdown in a better position.

 

And if it all just comes down to the better workers were on Smackdown, well then why was Smackdown right after the split up until about July just as boring to watch as Raw? Just adding Eddy and Benoit (and losing Jericho, Storm, Christian, and Test) cant drastically change a program THAT much as it did with Smackdown overnight like it did.

First off, Edge's first MOTYC was against Angle at Backlash last April, well before Heyman was writing. It became known that Heyman wrote SD one month later.

 

Second of all, the good match train didn't start moving on SD until September (with a few exceptions over the summer) and primarily October. Heyman certainly booked those 'boring' (not that I disagree) shows you speak of.

 

Good matches are good matches, but most of the time Heyman failed to build on them, and that is why many don't consider him to be as great as others do. I'm willing to give Pritchard and Lagana a chance. Heyman's had his.

[Guest Brian]

Who's a quality worker on RAW along the lines of Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, Angle, Knoble, or even Chavo? Maybe Jericho, and Regal if the guy gets in the right conditions.

 

Or play off them in most of the cases and plan for the long term, like Benoit/Angle at the Rumble. It's not hard to program two good wrestlers against each other but if the writings not there to support them, it accomplishes zero. Happens on both shows.

 

"Heyman's been writing for both shows for a while now."

 

Why else would he be getting into fights with Brian Gerwitz over storylines?

[Guest RedJed]

Who's a quality worker on RAW along the lines of Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, Angle, Knoble, or even Chavo? Maybe Jericho, and Regal if the guy gets in the right conditions.

As you mentioned, Jericho and Regal for sure.

 

Storm

Van Dam (safe to say he's at least on a similar level as Edge IMO)

Snow

Booker T

Christian (at least in a similar level as Chavo ever has been)

Rico

Hurricane

 

Those are just off the top of my head of what i would consider a qulaity worker, at least on the same lines of even midcarders such as Rey or Knoble.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

[[Well seeing how the brand split hasn't actually been done correctly, its hard for the two shows ratings to really branch off into other directions, wouldn't you say?]]

 

I don't think you understood what I was trying to say. Both show' ratings have decreased since last year's sweeps period, but as I understand it, Smackdown! fell further from last year than Raw did. More dammage done, essentially.

 

[[both shows have dropped in the ratings, as has every other facet of the companys business other than DVD sales. Basing the success or lack of success on the ratings doesn't mean much at this point, not until they full create this split the right way.]]

 

Not if you're WWE Creative. How often have we seen the flip out over Ratings? As far as I can tell, Raw's ratings have withstood the decline better than Smackdown! If Smackdown! is such a "success" why has it not reflected in the ratings?

 

[["Heyman's been writing for both shows for a while now."

 

Why else would he be getting into fights with Brian Gerwitz over storylines?]]

 

Yep. It's not suprising that Heyman's cheerleaders at 1wrestling didn't make the same connection that you did, but I really have no clue how Keller and Meltzer haven't. Either Wade and Dave are protecting Paul or they're being worked. In journalism, is it better to be dishonest or incompetent?

[Guest Brian]

Jericho, maybe. He has a style that really tends to mesh well with larger guys, and he's starting to pick up the carry-end of matches rather than just bumping, but he's still not at the ability of the top six guys on SmackDown. Regal can be, but that's not going to happen. He has the mindset, but just won't get to work his way.

 

Storm's not even close. I'd put him at Edge's level. He throws some of the shittiest strikes in the business.

 

Rob Van Dam. Oh jeez, that's a can of worms.

 

Booker T, probably right up there with Jericho. Very good at working his style of match, and tends to have an offense (though somewhat repetitive to some) that works it's way into the match better.

 

Rico's still very green in the ring.

 

Christian has an awkward pacing to his matches, that's generally inconsistent, and outside of tags is not too good. Really been banking on the restholds as a singes worker and really hasn't shown too much.

 

Once again, I'm not seeing anyone on RAW that's up to par with the top six SmackDown guys aside from possibly the two I listed earlier.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Hurricane is a good talent.

[Guest Brian]

But he's not as good.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I think he can put on an equally entertaining match.

[Guest Brian]

Entertaining, yes. But as good of a match? Helms has always been a great spot worker like Jericho. And when I say that, I don't mean highspots. I mean they have a certain way of working their spots into a match and stringing it together by bumping. But the spots tend to not have a lot of build to them and there's no sense of layering things in. It's like Matt Hardy, on the SmackDown side, though sometimes Matt can actually control the general flow.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I won't argue that - I am just saying that Helms is a good talent.

[Guest Brian]

Yeah he's a good talent.

[Guest RedJed]

[[Well seeing how the brand split hasn't actually been done correctly, its hard for the two shows ratings to really branch off into other directions, wouldn't you say?]]

 

I don't think you understood what I was trying to say. Both show' ratings have decreased since last year's sweeps period, but as I understand it, Smackdown! fell further from last year than Raw did. More dammage done, essentially.

 

[[both shows have dropped in the ratings, as has every other facet of the companys business other than DVD sales. Basing the success or lack of success on the ratings doesn't mean much at this point, not until they full create this split the right way.]]

 

Not if you're WWE Creative. How often have we seen the flip out over Ratings? As far as I can tell, Raw's ratings have withstood the decline better than Smackdown! If Smackdown! is such a "success" why has it not reflected in the ratings?

Well Smackdowns ratings are STILL essentially higher than Raws when you factor in total viewership, since the broadcast and cable ratings reflect a differing total number of viewers. So Smackdown must have really been high and above Raw's average in the past if this is the case. I haven't seen any sort of number that show that Smackdown has taken a harder drop than Raw.

 

About the butting heads with Gerwitz thing, does any of us know how the booking meeting are ran? I don't think so. For all we know, they have every writer in the company (both brands) at all of the meetings to at least oversee if not add their varying opinions on the current scheme of things, to take notes on the other show to maybe grab hints for themselves. I don't think thats out of the question of happening since its clear Vince doesn't want that friendly competition between the two shows.....more than anything he wants to keep them as even as possible it seems. Just because Heyman and Gerwitz don't get along and possibly disagree with each others ideas for storylines doesn't neccesarily equate Gerwitz or Heyman are actually WRITING the opposite show. Theres a difference between full out writing and expressing an opinion on a storyline.

[Guest RedJed]

Jericho, maybe. He has a style that really tends to mesh well with larger guys, and he's starting to pick up the carry-end of matches rather than just bumping, but he's still not at the ability of the top six guys on SmackDown. Regal can be, but that's not going to happen. He has the mindset, but just won't get to work his way.

 

Storm's not even close. I'd put him at Edge's level. He throws some of the shittiest strikes in the business.

 

Rob Van Dam. Oh jeez, that's a can of worms.

 

Booker T, probably right up there with Jericho. Very good at working his style of match, and tends to have an offense (though somewhat repetitive to some) that works it's way into the match better.

 

Rico's still very green in the ring.

 

Christian has an awkward pacing to his matches, that's generally inconsistent, and outside of tags is not too good. Really been banking on the restholds as a singes worker and really hasn't shown too much.

 

Once again, I'm not seeing anyone on RAW that's up to par with the top six SmackDown guys aside from possibly the two I listed earlier.

Well you wanted me to compare guys who could go as well as even say, an Edge, Knoble, Rey, or even Chavo. I would say those names are a fair assesment. Even you compared Storm to Edge yet he's not as worthy workrate wise as Edge, who is in the top 6 SD stars? I don't get it. Same with Booker T who you put at the same level as Jericho yet he still couldn't compete in the same level as even Jamie Knoble or Chavo? Cmon now......

[Guest RedJed]

Did anyone ever think a guy like Edge would be in any MOTY candidates by years end? How did that happen anyway FINALLY when Heyman was writing Smackdown?

 

For example a guy like Chavo, he was never really noticed by the masses until they booked him in the matches on Smackdown in a better position.

 

And if it all just comes down to the better workers were on Smackdown, well then why was Smackdown right after the split up until about July just as boring to watch as Raw? Just adding Eddy and Benoit (and losing Jericho, Storm, Christian, and Test) cant drastically change a program THAT much as it did with Smackdown overnight like it did.

First off, Edge's first MOTYC was against Angle at Backlash last April, well before Heyman was writing. It became known that Heyman wrote SD one month later.

 

Second of all, the good match train didn't start moving on SD until September (with a few exceptions over the summer) and primarily October. Heyman certainly booked those 'boring' (not that I disagree) shows you speak of.

 

Good matches are good matches, but most of the time Heyman failed to build on them, and that is why many don't consider him to be as great as others do. I'm willing to give Pritchard and Lagana a chance. Heyman's had his.

Heyman was head writing Smackdown already in May? You sure about that? I recall the move of Vince finally seperating the writers full out not occuring until July, possibly even early August.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Yes, because I recall the tOA guys ragging on Heyman after Edge got injured in the cage match against Kurt Angle, and that was at the end of May 2002.

 

EDIT: Here's a link to a Lords of Pain update from May 29th that confirms what I said.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Off-topic:

 

Is it Gewirtz or Gerwitz? Google searching turns up both variants in connection w/ articles on the WWE.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Off-topic:

 

Is it Gewirtz or Gerwitz? Google searching turns up both variants in connection w/ articles on the WWE.

Gerwitz

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

CRZ claims the Gewirtz spelling is correct.

 

EDIT: as does imdb.com

[Guest RedJed]

Yes, because I recall the tOA guys ragging on Heyman after Edge got injured in the cage match against Kurt Angle, and that was at the end of May 2002.

 

EDIT: Here's a link to a Lords of Pain update from May 29th that confirms what I said.

My mistake then, sorry about that.

[Guest Brian]

I said Booker T and Chris Jericho are about the only two guys whose performance compare to those guys. But neither have proven to be at the level of the top guys, maybe Chavo and Knoble. Jericho tends to mesh well with biogger guys he can bump for and he isn't able to layer his offense and build that up in his matches. Booker has a better idea of how to put things together and is a decent bumper.

 

I never brought up Edge until the Storm comnparison as I've never seen anything out of him, other than who he works with at times (read Eddy and Kurt), for me to put him in with the likes of the other six.