Raw Notes from Dave Meltzer

[Guest Human Fly]

When did window-punching start earning respect?  I punched out a house window a-la Bill Goldy and cut myself severely as well.  All i got from that was a good lesson and a nasty scar.  Same prolly goes for Goldberg.  Not really a showcase of intelligence or balls.

He put his own personal well being on the line, in order to make his segment in Pro. Wrestling to look as realistic as possible. We see others do this all the time, and those get credit for it. I'm not saying that Goldberg should have done that, but still, I personally respect him for wanting to at least TRY to make it look more intense and realistic, other than making it look obviously chessy and fake.

Goldberg wasn't using his head and cut himself up. As a result he was out of action for months making said action pointless as the angle was then dead. He should've used a pipe or something, it would've looked just as real.

[Guest Downhome]

When did window-punching start earning respect?  I punched out a house window a-la Bill Goldy and cut myself severely as well.  All i got from that was a good lesson and a nasty scar.  Same prolly goes for Goldberg.  Not really a showcase of intelligence or balls.

He put his own personal well being on the line, in order to make his segment in Pro. Wrestling to look as realistic as possible. We see others do this all the time, and those get credit for it. I'm not saying that Goldberg should have done that, but still, I personally respect him for wanting to at least TRY to make it look more intense and realistic, other than making it look obviously chessy and fake.

Goldberg wasn't using his head and cut himself up. As a result he was out of action for months making said action pointless as the angle was then dead. He should've used a pipe or something, it would've looked just as real.

Hey, I can't defend his not using his head there. I don't think he should have done it, but I can understand why. It was the heat of the moment, he's really excited, and he wants to try to make it look much better. I always thought it was stupid, but I do respect ANYONE putting their wanting to entertain me, and you, and everyone else, over their own well being.

[Guest Human Fly]

I'd be surprised if the segment was rehearsed so when Goldberg was out there he had to ad-lib and went with what was right there (his arm).

[Guest Downhome]

I'd be surprised if the segment was rehearsed so when Goldberg was out there he had to ad-lib and went with what was right there (his arm).

I don't even know why, but that cracked me up.

 

Are you REALLY a human fly, or are you a deciever?

[Guest Vitamin X]

I always thought it was stupid, but I do respect ANYONE putting their wanting to entertain me, and you, and everyone else, over their own well being.

Steve-O from Jackass. In fact, most of those guys from Jackass/CKY.

 

that's all I gotta say about that

[Guest RedJed]

Here's the thing about this Goldberg deal that baffles me. Why they wouldn't push for a program with Austin instead of Rock is beyond me. I know Rock has alot to do with even getting the negotiations this close, but still........I don't even see Rock v. Goldberg as a dream match to me. It's just a bearable match with no background to it.

[Guest Army Eye]

I get frustrated by that too. But there's a few pretty solid reasons:

 

1) like you said, Rock is pushing heavily for it

2) Rock is heel and Goldberg will surely be a face

3) Rock is only around for a little while, so get the biggest money matches out of him that you can. Austin on the other hand will be around for a while, presumably

 

I was sour on the Rock/Goldberg match for a while, but with Rock's heel character coming around so well, I'm thinking it could do big money.

 

It still would be outright insanity if they sign Goldberg and don't put him up against Austin at some point. SummerSlam seems good to me.

[Guest Army Eye]

It's actually too big a match even for SummerSlam. It should be the main for WrestleMania 20. But I don't know if they could draw it out that long, not to mention keep Goldberg around for a full year.

[Guest geniusMoment]

I predict the Goldberg signing will be a success. He isn't too old or crippled like Steiner. He brings unbelievable intensity to the ring, he has a definite star power quality to him. Near the end of his WCW run he showed off decent mic skills in battling Russo and Steiner. Also he seems to really hate HHH which is always a plus. A dream match with Austin could bring ratings back up.

As for Bret blame WCW's doctors and taking sick chairshots from the Funker as well as Goldberg.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Who'd do the job if it was Golberg vs HHH at WM.

[Guest RedJed]

Who'd do the job if it was Golberg vs HHH at WM.

That match just wont happen, at least this soon. From what I've heard he has outright refused to work with either HHH or Lesnar at this point.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

That's what I thought. But if it's Austin vs Rock and Golberg does sign who will he face?

[Guest TheGame2705]

Why did he refuse to work with Lesnar? Because he got pushed to the moon solely because of his look and power? HA!

[Guest Choken One]

Austin thought it was too big of a match to waste on a Raw match...

 

Anyways...

 

If they do indeed pull Rock, Austin, Goldberg onto one show...It clearly indicates that WWE is seeking to revive the show.

 

It makes sense in terms of Getting Rock onto RAW...He Hates Hogan right? So he pisses him off even more by shipping Rock over to Raw.

 

Rock is sent to raw to "help" Eric...

 

Rock cuts and Wicked Heel Promo and then BOOM! Goldberg pops over the railings...SPEAR! HUGE POP! (Trust Me, TO fans hopefullly have grown up like Montreal fans). Jackhammer! Goldberg simply walks away as the show goes off...

 

The connection? Goldberg is Hogan's Friend and was asked to put out Rock. Boom! We got one match settled...

 

Then Comes a trickier part, We got Austin left lounging around...The logical move is to ignore the Booker stuff and easily start up the already written HHH/Austin storyline.

 

What about Booker? Just go ahead and Have Booker Vs Flair...It's more prestigous then Batistia and we can get some good promos out of it...

 

Yes, I'll mark for awesomeness of a "Shocking" goldberg return...and So Will Toronto...TSM loves to believe that Toronto and Canada will ALWAYS support Bret, Not true.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

Also, he looks at wrestling like a job. Some people look at this as if it's a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. He does what he's told, and collects his paycheck. That keeps him out of politics though. He all for shit not looking hokey either. That's why he fucking punched through a real limo window. At least he's dedicated to tasks at hand.

 

I remember that, the Benoit vs Bret Hart match (which sucked but eh..) and Jarrett declaring Salisbury the 1rst ever Slapnuts convention...

 

To which Bret Hart v Chris Benoit match are you refering to ?

 

I can't see how any match between these two could possibly suck.

[Guest Choken One]

It Can't be the Owen Tribute Match he is refering to but Meyhem wasn't very GREAT i would say it was **3/4ish...pretty disapointing....

[Guest JMA]

Why does everyone have such a jones for Goldberg? Christ, he was a lousy wrestler who ended Bret Hart's career because he botched the incredibly complex move known as the "superkick." (Sorry, "savate kick," since he'll apparently be on Raw.) More importantly, he's meant precisely DICK to North American wrestling for the last three years. Bah, I hope he never signs. It will be a mistake if he does, I guaran-damn-tee it.

I totally agree. Nothing else can be said.

[J.B. Buzzkill 0]

Christ, he was a lousy wrestler who ended Bret Hart's career because he botched the incredibly complex move known as the "superkick." (Sorry, "savate kick," since he'll apparently be on Raw.)

Don't tell Shawn!

[Guest notJames]

It was only a few months ago when people were so excited over Steiner signing, about the big marquee matchups he could have, and how, even though everyone knew he was the drizzling shits in the ring and on the mat, people still held out hope that he would bring the goods.

 

Then came Royal Rumble. And then came No Way Out.

 

I hope all this tittering and man-gooing over that assfuck Goldberg ends with the same results. He's talentless, heartless, disrespectful to the industry and its constituents, and can only serve to disrupt the already fragile state of the locker room further.

 

Here's hoping he repeats his windshield-breaking performance, only this time head-first.

 

And one more thing...

 

 

 

 

 

Fuck Goldberg.

[Guest Angle-plex]

Tonight would be a good night to bring both guys to RAW, since a lot of people will be watching for Austin's return. I still won't believe it until I see it though.

[Guest humongous2002]

Rock and Austin again for Wrestlemania?????Everybody is already tired of seeing that feud, unless Rocky goes over Austin this time i don't see anything else good that might come out of this.

[Guest humongous2002]

Why does everyone have such a jones for Goldberg?  Christ, he was a lousy wrestler who ended Bret Hart's career because he botched the incredibly complex move known as the "superkick."  (Sorry, "savate kick," since he'll apparently be on Raw.)  More importantly, he's meant precisely DICK to North American wrestling for the last three years.  Bah, I hope he never signs.  It will be a mistake if he does, I guaran-damn-tee it.

I totally agree. Nothing else can be said.

It seems to me that there are a lot of WCW marks on this forum, that's why you see all these Goldberg loving posts , the only thing the WWE should do with Goldberg is make him job to Austin at Mania.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

The Goldberg deal, like the Steiner one, shows that it's not your actual drawing power that matters, but your perceived drawing power.

[Guest notJames]

Too true.

[Guest EricMM]

This is always a mistake.

 

I was pissed when they were bringing in BPP, I remembered his WCW run. It was better than he's been in WWE too, which is just sad.

 

Now people talk about Goldberg. Talk about him like he'll be enjoyable. Fuck that. I remember him from WCW. He wasn't enjoyable. I'm sick of them signing people who need to be carried. Why can't they sign another Radical, or Jericho?

 

If Goldberg does come back, and it seems like he will, it just means less spotlight for someone you might like (see: Jericho after Steiner got signed)

 

There are only so many top spots as we all know, and I'm sick of them going to "ratings spikers" that merely lower fan interest because they're ALL old washed up old WCW superstars, who killed WCW and are now killing WWE...

[Guest Human Fly]

There are only so many top spots as we all know, and I'm sick of them going to "ratings spikers" that merely lower fan interest because they're ALL old washed up old WCW superstars, who killed WCW and are now killing WWE...

But Goldberg won't even work with all of the guys who have top spots now. He should create a new booking position for Goldberg and the guys he'll work with "Super Main Eventer".

 

Also, everyone who says that Goldberg looks at wrestling like a business and just does what he is told and collects his check is only half right. He looks at it like a business yes, and he does what he is told (as long as it's with a wrestler who he feels is good enough to work with him, ask Jericho about that). He also has no problem collecting his check (as long as it's big enough, if it's not he'll hold the promotion hostage until he gets the money he wants, ask Bischoff about that).

 

Overused statement here, but WCW did create a monster.

[Guest humongous2002]

Goldberg=Ultimate Warrior2003

[Guest Angle-plex]

(as long as it's with a wrestler who he feels is good enough to work with him, ask Jericho about that).

 

I thought Hogan and/or Nash were responsible for that.

[Guest Army Eye]

That's what I thought. But if it's Austin vs Rock and Golberg does sign who will he face?

Austin vs. Rock was the Plan B if they didn't get Goldberg.

[Guest DrTom]

I form my own individual opinions and I could care less what the other people ,that I've never met in real life, on a message forum think about it.

Well aren't you a special, unique little snowflake? I think most people form their own opinions about things. You like Goldberg? Splendid. I don't know why your tone is so defensive, since I never said anything was wrong with liking him; I just don't understand why people do, since I've never particularly cared for him. By the way, if you *could* care less about something, then you should.

 

Accidents happen, so I can EASILY look past Bret Hart getting kicked for real.

Accidents indeed. I suppose when you're chronically sloppy and show little regard for you opponent or his well-being, then ending his career could be considered an "accident." I think carelessness like that is inexcusable, and no, I'm not a big Bret Hart fan.

 

Also, it's hard to mean anything to North American wrestling when you're not a part of it. Or was that your point? Pretty moot.

He hasn't meant anything since his win streak ended and he lost the title. The fans in WCW stopped caring about him at that point; why should WWE fans give two pins about him at this point? He wasn't a part of North American wrestling by choice, incidentally, since he preferred to sit at home and collect a paycheck for doing nothing, instead of getting back into the business. His eventual obscurity is entirely his own doing.

 

Also, he wasn't a lousy wrestler by any stretch of the imagination.

We're just going to have to disagree there. I was never particularly impressed with him in the ring. He was carryable, which is more than can be said for some of the more untalented louts currently in the business, and I can see where his power arsenal would be entertaining. He just never struck me as particularly gifted out there. Maybe it's because he was rushed out there, maybe it's because he frequently looked sloppy.

 

Also, he looks at wrestling like a job. Some people look at this as if it's a bad thing. I think it's a good thing.

It has good and bad elements to it. The positive element, as you mentioned, is that it tends to keep him out of political games. Though it's still possible he could fall victim to them, it's unlikely he'd be starting any of them. The bad part of that, though, is that it's just a job to him. There's no underlying love for the business that carries him thru everything. He wants to keep the business strong, not because he knows its history and loves it, but because he doesn't want to jeopardize his paycheck. I don't see his workmanlike attitude as a particular problem, but I also don't think it's a benefit.

 

That's why he fucking punched through a real limo window.

I refuse to look at stupid, reckless disregard for one's own safety as something commendable. Perhaps in WWE, he'll get run over by a semi. Or have a cinder block dropped onto his head from fifty feet. That's dedication! That'll look authentic! I know that if I were going to punch thru some window as part of an angle, I'd make damn sure it was the kind of safety glass that wouldn't cut the shit out of me and wouldn't break my hand. Goldberg failed to take reasonable precautions, and I don't think that's admirable in any way.

 

I'm still against his signing.