Ascroft the new Drug Czar?

[Guest NoCalMike]

I have MSNBC on right now, and right before the commercial break, they had Ashcroft giving a speech about how head shops give easy access to children to use drugs. He said this illegal paraphniella(sp?) is advertised with cartoons to attract children to them. He also blasted websites that sell pipes and the potions that are advertised to help you take a clean piss test. Hahaha. He said this was gonna be taking place on a NATIONAL level. I am not quite sure if he was just giving his opinion on what HE THINKS should be done, or if it is NOW in affect. Well I guess places here like, "Twisted" and "Still Smokin' " better lock up the "back rooms" for awhile. Simply Ridiculous.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Also, a drug bust resulted in DEA agents killing a 14 year old girl. Granted, yes, the agents were in some sense of danger because she was behind the wheel of an automobile, but if we had a less-retarded drug stance maybe that wouldn't have happened.

[Guest JMA]

Ah, Ashcroft. The "spiritual" center of the Bush administration. If we didn't already have to listen to his insane views on religion now we have to listen to his drug policy. Tell me, why does the goverment care if people get toasted in the privacy of their own home?

[Guest snuffbox]

Good to hear that a guy who couldnt even beat a fucking CADAVER in a senate race is in charge of what Americans can/cant do to themselves.

[Guest Some Guy]

He said this illegal paraphniella(sp?) is advertised with cartoons to attract children to them.

Here's my big problem. Why is it that Joe Camel wasn't advertising to children according to many GOPs but was to many on the Left and cartoons advertising Bongs is aimed at children according to many GOPs but it's not according to many on the Left?

 

That's quite a conundrum, huh?

 

I think that at least Weed should be legal so I disagree with the actions he wishes to take. However i can understand that if you want drugs to be illegal that you would try to go after those who sell materials to use them. If I were runiong things, I'd legalize Weed, regulate it like Alcohol and let private companies sell it. Crime would go down somewhat. But you'd haev to legalize all drugs to get it to really go down. Not too many people are killed for or over Weed. The Pot smokers (simple possession or dealling of just Trees) who are caught are really just clogging up our prisons.

[Guest EricMM]

But as far as I know, head shops only sell paraphanalia (sp) for weed. They don't sell clean needles...

 

I don't know why the GOP has one position one day, and a different position the next, oh wait, yes I do, it's politics. Note that that same statement applies to the DNC. It's fucking bullshit as well.

[Guest Some Guy]

I don't know why the GOP has one position one day, and a different position the next, oh wait, yes I do, it's politics. Note that that same statement applies to the DNC. It's fucking bullshit as well.

That was my point, Eric.

[Guest El Satanico]

That paraphanalia is for tobacco use and in no way are they meant to be used with marijuana!

 

:looks around:

 

Just because a few bad apples disobey directions and use this paraphanalia in illegal ways we shouldn't all have to suffer.

 

:coughs:

 

 

Also where the hell is he finding these bong cartoons aimed at kids? I'd like to see those. Oh yeah and what the hell is John Ashcroft doing reading the type of publications that have ads for bongs.

 

Did i ever mention how much i loathe John Ashcroft?

[Guest Some Guy]

Maybe Ashcroft meant those cartoony bong stickers that some put on their bongs.

 

BTW, I didn't start smoking cigarettes because a make believe Camel told me to and I didn't use to smoke Weed because a cartoon told me to. I started because I was stupid and quit latter, the former has proven much tougher to stop.

 

Maybe Ashcroft will go after The Carton Network for playing Scooby Doo next.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well when Ashcroft talked about advertisement for Marijuana, I would have liked to know where he has seen such cartoons. I mean really. I have not seen that much pot ads during saturday morning cartoons. I'd say advertisement by peer groups would convince someone to smoke a joint way more than a stoned leprecaun(sp?) or something.

 

I have been to a place called, "twisted" and when in the back room, they have a strict policy to refer to the bongs as Water pipes or just pipes. There is always people messing up and the clerks have to correct them for each "bong" reference. It is quite funny. I don't really know how those places can be raided though and rendered illegal since without marijuana or marijuana-residue, oh fuck it, I dunno....I'll just have to drive down to San Francisco....(oh wait I quit)

[Guest El Satanico]

Yeah most of those places make sure that there's no mention of marijuana.

 

There's no way any charges would stick without residue or plants. Lawyers would have a field day with such nonsense if states started trying it.

[Guest Some Guy]

I've only been in a few head shops and they had curtained off rooms where they kept the "water pipes" and you had to be 18 to get in. Althought one of them sold a 2 foot glass bong to my 14 or 15 year old (at the time) friend. So whatever.

[Guest teke184]

Want to see them? Go to Venice Beach. I saw ones shaped like Batman and Scooby Doo. I don't think that kids can afford to pay $50+ for them though.

[Guest El Satanico]

Well what the bong is shaped like doesn't matter at all. He's talking about cartoon ads aimed at attracting kids.

 

Besides even if a kid did somehow stumble into a headshop and see's a Batman bong and want's it doesn't mean the shop is trying to get kids to smoke weed. The kid either has no clue what it is or he was familar with using weed and knew what it was long before.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Continuing our drug violence theme tonight, a naked 16 year old high on LSD was shot and cost a city 3 million:

 

police shooting

Chris Graves, Star Tribune

 

Published Feb. 23, 2003 SETL23

 

 

A 19-year-old Eagan man permanently paralyzed after he was shot by an Apple Valley police officer in October 2000 has settled his federal lawsuit for more than $3 million.

 

The settlement, which is to be finalized this week, is believed to be the largest reached between a police department and victim of a police-involved shooting in the state.

 

Gennadiy Balandin, who was naked and unarmed but high on the hallucinogen LSD that night, said he was pleased.

 

"It feels pretty good," Balandin, a University of Minnesota freshman, said from his home Saturday. "It shows some acknowledgment of fault on their side."

 

But Apple Valley Police Chief Scott Johnson said neither the Police Department nor the city admitted any wrongdoing by police officer Jim Eagle. He shot Balandin, now a paraplegic with bullet fragments lodged in his spine from the shooting, in a cul-de-sac in Apple Valley.

 

 

Gennadiy Balandin

 

Richard Tsong -taatarii

Star Tribune

"This young man [balandin] has an attorney that is very good at weaving fairy tales," Johnson said. "And his version was a fairy tale.

 

"Unfortunately, this case doesn't have anything to do with right or wrong or what is just," the chief said. "It has to do with dollars and cents."

 

The Police Department has maintained that Eagle shot Balandin, who was 17 at the time, only after Balandin attacked Eagle, and the two struggled over the officer's gun.

 

But Balandin's attorney, Robert Bennett, said that forensic evidence -- and the lack of it -- contradicts the officer's version of events.

 

Balandin, speaking publicly Saturday for the first time since the shooting, admitted he was high on LSD that night. But he repeatedly denied that he attacked the officer. Instead, he said, he was nauseated from the drug and was seeking the officer's help when he was shot.

 

The case was filed in U.S. District Court as a civil rights claim. In federal court there are no limits on how much money can be paid in such suits, a fact that heavily influenced the city's decision to settle, Johnson said.

 

The Apple Valley City Council voted unanimously to pay $50,000 of the settlement. The other $3 million will be paid through the city's insurer, the League of Minnesota Cities Insurance Trust. Apple Valley's insurance limit with the league is $3 million.

 

Apple Valley Council Member Tom Goodwin confirmed that the City Council voted unanimously Thursday to settle but said lawyers were still trying to agree on how the money should be paid and over what time period. He expected that to be completed by Tuesday.

 

"The council's done," he said Saturday. "Now it's up to the lawyers."

 

Balandin, a Russian immigrant who became a U.S. citizen and speaks five languages, was among a group of teens who experimented with LSD at a small party.

 

Eagle was sent to the neighborhood after reports that someone was yelling and acting erratically. When Eagle arrived, at about 3:30 a.m., Balandin had removed his clothes and had wandered off.

 

Eagle picked up the clothes, got back into his squad car and was going through the clothing looking for identification when Balandin ran into the driver's side door of Eagle's squad car, which was closed.

 

It's at this point that the two accounts differ.

 

Authorities at the time said that Eagle was startled and opened the door hoping to throw the naked teen off balance. They said that Balandin attacked the officer through the open door, and that the officer and Balandin struggled over the officer's gun.

 

But Bennett, Balandin's lawyer, after reviewing reports and taking sworn depositions, disputed the account. Information he gained through expert analysis -- including the testimony of Ramsey County Medical Examiner Michael McGee -- indicated a different scenario, he said.

 

Balandin said he approached the squad car looking for help.

 

"I kept trying to explain to officer Eagle that I needed help. He kept yelling at me to get away from the car," said Balandin, who said he was probably speaking Russian and English.

 

Once he saw the gun pointed at him, Balandin said, he decided to "get away as fast as I could. Unfortunately, I couldn't make that movement and I fell over, turning away from him."

 

According to Bennett, McGee said in a deposition that he expected the shooting to be at close range if they were struggling over the gun. Instead, Bennett said, McGee found that Balandin "suffered a distant gunshot wound."

 

McGee also said that the angle of the bullets when they entered Balandin's body were not consistent with the way in which Eagle said he positioned his gun.

 

"I disagree with the medical examiner," Chief Johnson said. "Officer Eagle did exactly what he was trained to do, and the Police Department and the City Council are standing behind the officer."

 

Eagle, a 23-year veteran, remains on the police force. A Hennepin County grand jury found that he was justified when he shot Balandin.

 

Bennett said that Eagle, in his deposition, said he thought Balandin was 2 or 3 feet away when he fired the first shot and 6 feet away when he fired the second shot. Eagle fired a third shot that did not strike Balandin.

 

"When he shot him, they weren't struggling," Bennett said. "Maybe if he had a hold of the barrel, there was a threat. But when you are 6 feet away can you shoot him?"

 

A computer simulation of the shooting indicates that Balandin was falling away from the car and that the car was moving forward as the officer was firing.

 

Eagle maintained that Balandin scratched his face and grabbed the gun. But investigators did not take pictures of Eagle's face, Bennett said. And, he said, authorities did not find Balandin's fingerprints on Eagle's gun.

 

Balandin said the settlement money will likely be put into at least two trusts -- one to pay for his ongoing medical care and the other to pay for his education.

 

He admits to "being a jerk that night" and making a horrible decision to take LSD. He said it was a mistake that changed his life.

 

But he said that officer Eagle also made a fateful mistake.

 

"Officers should get more training on use of deadly force. . . . Police do a lot of good," he said. "But that doesn't mean we should excuse what they do. They make mistakes toohttp://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3669921.html

 

I'm sure there's some people here who say the blame lies with the kid and 3 million is undeserved, but IMO if a trained cop cannot subdue a naked, stoned as fuck teenager without resorting to his firearm, I don't feel he should be a cop, as he is unable to protect himself, let alone his community.

[Guest El Satanico]

Honestly just take out your night stick and give him one quick hit to the head. The problem is over and the next morning other than a bad headache both sides walk away unharmed.

 

Sure the LSD would make him harder to subdue, but you give him a good crack to the head he will go down.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Oh fuck that brainless, dickless douchebag Ashcroft. He's trying to shit on perfectly legitimate businesses, most of which are small shops run by one or two people anyway. I suppose we should stop selling cigarette papers next..or maybe cigars. Can't have those blunts now.

 

Besides, no self-respecting stoner smokes out of a scooby doo bong anyway. Young kids that would actually be SWAYED by something shaped like a cartoon character aren't even allowed to buy that kind of stuff anyway.

 

How ridiculous.

 

With the deal about the kid getting shot by the cop, that cop should have his fucking badge taken away. He had at least two other things at his disposal, let alone his own fists, to subdue a naked stoner. Mace, and a club. If he was legitimately being attacked (which I doubt), why not just bust the kid in the nose, or mace him? I bet he just did something to piss the cop off, ran, and didn't stop.

[Guest red_file]

Besides, no self-respecting stoner smokes out of a scooby doo bong anyway. Young kids that would actually be SWAYED by something shaped like a cartoon character aren't even allowed to buy that kind of stuff anyway.

A stoner couple I know value their Rainbow Brite bong as one of their most prized possessions, and a friend of mine always smokes out of his Lucky Charms bong. Not exactly the same thing, but still, adult stoners seem to like kiddie type stuff associated with drugs.

 

What that has to do with kids, I have no idea.

 

Didn't Ashcroft want to cover up some statues at the justice department because they were naked or something? I thought I remembered reading something about that.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I'd believe it.

 

If he would accept, I would very seriously challenge Ashcroft to Pistols at Dawn. Ten Paces.

[Guest Sandman9000]

And accidentally turn at nine.

[Guest DrTom]

Another reason to add to my already-long list of why I hate Ashcroft.

 

I've said it before, and I'll reiterate it here: if Asscroft is still AG at the time of the 2004 election, I will not vote to re-elect George Bush, no mattter my generally favorable opinion of his job as president.

[Guest teke184]

I'm solidly on the Republican side but even *I* feel strongly that Ashcroft is a moron. The only saving grace for him is that he hasn't committed a stupid act on the order of Ruby Ridge or Waco... yet.

[Guest JMA]

Ashcroft will mess up one day, count on it. Look what happened to Trent Lott. Once he says something wrong he'll be out of there like a bat outta hell.

[Guest LooseCannon]

Another reason to add to my already-long list of why I hate Ashcroft.

 

I've said it before, and I'll reiterate it here: if Asscroft is still AG at the time of the 2004 election, I will not vote to re-elect George Bush, no mattter my generally favorable opinion of his job as president.

I've been saying the same thing. And I really kind of want to vote for Bush despite my Democratic leanings.

[Guest El Satanico]

Didn't Ashcroft want to cover up some statues at the justice department because they were naked or something? I thought I remembered reading something about that.

Yeah he did early into his reign and i think they did cover them up.

 

The statues could be seen in the background from where press conferences are televised. I believe they put some sort of drape in front of them.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

It's crap like this that just proves the point that Ashcroft is a complete Jack-Ass. I don't think he has done one significant thing as Attorney General. I really hope Bush decides to go with someone who actually does something, instead of covering statues and going after head shops. Last I heard, you can sell water pipes, aka bongs, and pipes. It's when you actually use them to smoke pot, is when they become illegal. And even then, I think there are more intiment dangers out there, ie terrorist sleeper cells, then some head shops. Please Bush!!! Get rid of this guy, who lost to a dead guy in the last election he ran in. That should tell ya all you need to know about the "All American Jackass", as the good Dr. called him

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Here's my theory on Ashcroft. After being one of the "stars" of the Bush administration before anyone cared about terrorism or Iraq and before we had heard the words "September 11th". There was tons of press following his nomination and the process that led to him being approved, and he generated more on his own (for instance, this nonsense over the statue). However, US priorities have shifted totally towards foreign policy and military policy with the war of terror, Iraq, North Korea, etc. and so Bush, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, and Cheney have taken over the spotlight while Ashcroft, occasional issue like the Patriot Act and trials of terrorists aside, has been pushed into the background. This renewed focus on the war on drugs is Ashcroft's desperate attempt to try and make a name for himself and restore his public spotlight in a country and world where he is clearly no longer an issue.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

And accidentally turn at nine.

Try two. I'm not a very good shot.

[Guest Some Guy]

Bush will have polls done before the re-elction campaign and if Ashcroft does very poorly, as I suspect he will Bush will name a replacement and give Ashcroft a less powerful job. Clinton had about 45 AGs didn't he?

 

I don't wish Ashcroft dead or anything but I wouldn't mind a more moderate Republican raplacing him at all and I'm in favor of it.

[Guest MrRant]

I'm sure Ashcroft will fade into obscurity when re-election comes like SG said.