Lucha Newbie with some questions

[Guest Dangerous A]

I have discovered Lucha and have been watching AAA and CMLL now for about a month. From other message boards I had been told that AAA sucks ass and CMLL is damn good. After a month this has been very apparant. I am watching this shit cold and I think I could get into this more, but I have some questions.

 

 

1)What is the deal with CMLL/EMLL? What I mean more specifically is the C and the E. What do the C and the E stand for and what is the significance.

 

2) Was Shocker ever a heel? He looks so much like a heel that I was surprised to see he was a face. (at least in the tag match I saw with Shocker and Vampiro vs Rey Bucanero and Ultimo Guerrerro)

 

3) I just purchased AAA's When World's Collide from the pimping and recommendations of a lot of people. I've also heard this show is overrated. Do you think this particular show is over or under rated?

 

4)Who are some of the people I should keep an eye on in CMLL? I know of Shocker, Rey Bucanero, and Ultimo Guerrerro. But what about anyone else?

 

5) Are there any intricate little things I should keep an eye out for when watching Lucha?

[Guest razazteca]

1) CMLL website Consejo Mundo Lucha Libre and Empiral?

 

2) Yes Shocker was a Rudo and he also had a mask. Shocker was in a team with Emilio Charles, Bastije, Scorpio Jr (not Flash Funk!) this team was called Los Guapos. The name was just a gimmick as Shocker was the only good one and he eventually declared himself 1000% Guapo and above the others, this lead to some funny vignettes of the guys going to saloons to get their hair done blond and some pratical jokes. Which lead to hair matches and other things after the all of this fighting of Emilio vs Shocker, Shocker became a huge star and a popular Technico.

 

3) the show has some of the best workers at the time in it, too bad it was not done in traditional Lucha style....2/3 is the only way Lucha should be viewed!

 

4) look at my sig

 

5) look at the fan reaction, in CMLL they have regulars in front row that are just like the ECW faithful. Look for the old guy with the Rudo noise maker, Emilo Charles girlfriend, and the bald guy.

 

Learn to hate the heavyweights especially Rayo de Jalisco, Los Capos, Giant Silva, and Pieroth's Puerto Rican Army

 

Not every show is ***** at times it will be crap then the final match will be MOTY

 

Satanico can shoot lightning bolts and has a kickass RUDO laugh

[Guest Joe_G]

1. CMLL - Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre

EMLL - Emprese Mexican de la Lucha Libre

 

EMLL is the actual fed. CMLL is the parent company/commission kind of deal, sorta like Titan Sports and the WWE. I forget the story behind it but the two terms are interchangable when talking about the fed.

 

2. Shocker used to be a face back when he had his mask, but turned rudo when he refused to tag into matches (I know because I have a Best of Shocker tape that has a lot of these matches, so I had a Shocker tape where I didn't see him wrestle until an hour in). He turned rudo and lost his mask to Mr. Niebla, then turned tecnico again after the Guapo story.

 

3. Depends what you mean by overrated. Some people consider it the best PPV ever. Some people think it's very good but not the best of all time. I haven't met too many people that didn't like it. I find it an excellent show myself.

 

4. CMLL is pretty stacked with good-great workers, but they have their share of turds too. You'll figure out who's who pretty quick. But it's sorta moot since Galavision isn't showing new eps.

 

5. Only thing I can advise is that you keep an open mind. Lucha isn't like American wrestling at all, it's a different beast entirely and plays by its own rules.

[Guest ConspiracyVictim]

1). Both guys pretty much explained this already...

 

2) This was explained also...

 

3) Most people who say this show is overrated are not real Lucha fans. Any person who has watched Lucha for a good amount of time and can compare it to other Lucha PPVS will tell you that it is a very good show. You will like it as its a pretty good into into Lucha Libre itself.

 

4)There are a ton of talented guys. Since you wont be seeing much new tv anytime soon watch out for all of La Famila De Tijuana (Nicho, Damien, and Halloween). Ricky Marvin and Zumbido are two of the brightest young highfylers. El Hijo Del Santo will be on from time to time...Hijo Del Lizmark, Juvi (at times), Wagner Jr, Black Tiger III, Masada, Takemura, Nosawa...there are more but those are just some names I am throwing out...

 

5) Um...just make sure you can keep up with the falls because sometimes it might get a tad confusing. Also check out the way a good Rudo will work the crowd (i dont know if this so much applies to CMLL but definatly in smaller venues like TJ and Monterrey).

[Guest razazteca]

More guys to look out for:

 

Atlantis has a damn good torture rack backbreaker that bears his name

 

Mr Niebla has a wierd submission where he "prezels" a guy with his own arms and legs then turns them over as if it looks like a turtle inside his shell, it too is named after him

 

Hijo de Rayo de Jalisco/Hombre Sin Nobre is by far one of the best all around wrestlers in the company, can fly, use submissions and has unique variations of basic rollups such as the handstand backslide. Too bad his step father Rayo Jr forced him to change his name and mask as he was over shadowing the fat bastard.

 

Tarzan Boy is a sometime trio member of the Inferinos as he has been on again off again feud with Shocker.

 

Dr Wagner Jr this luchadore is the Rudo who will kick you in the balls then pin you with his feet on the ropes to get the pin. Has been Trio Champions with Fuerza Guerrera (Juvi's father) and Blue Panther. I mark out for their team mask, its a combo of all 3 into 1. At times it is confusing who is Wagner and who is Panther but if you look at the siglet Wagner has a W on his back.

 

Black Warrior has a suicidal tope almost as good as Hijo de Santo which is the only reason to watch his matches. Has tagged with Wagner and Blue Panther and were Trios Champions for awhile but some inner issues broke up the team which lead to Black Warrior getting a team to challange his former partners. Sometimes teams with Antifaz, Atlantis, Mr Niebla or Hijo de Lizmark.

 

Super Porky is one fat bastard and one funny one at that......keep him away from the restuarants.

 

Satanico is one of the best brawling Tweener/Extranario? in the company that has been feuding with the Inferinos over the name rights and with Familia de Tijuana over an injuried teammate. Has one of the best backslides in wrestling Period if he is not going for the cheat to win DQ Kick he will go for the backslide. You must see his promos or vignettes, he is one of the few guys that get special effects!

 

Black Tiger 3 was Silver King in WCW, in CMLL he is the Rudo from Japan out to kick ass and take names. Almost as good as Eddy Guerrero, in that he can fly, work a fast pace match or use power moves. Works with Japanese Mafia in a stable of New Japan workers of Takamura, Masada, Inue, Nosawa.

 

Felino and Pantera also work the Tiger Mask gimmick and does not disappoint, one of them has an all white/black costume with hair on his back. Hell there are probably millions of other Tiger Mask luchadores that I am not aware of but these 2 have been entertaining on Galavision.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Guys, seriously, thanks a ton. This is great stuff. I am definitely ready to take Lucha Libre head on. I do have a couple more questions though.

 

1) Does AAA have any redeeming qualitites? I have heard the current AAA is shit, but the stuff from the past (around WWC time) is decent. Should I go out of my way to try to get some of the old AAA stuff?

 

2) I have been hearing that the TV that has been put out on Galavision recently is old stuff. How old is the EMLL stuff I am watching? (I have been watching for about a month now)Do the companies do this often or are they just behind in producing the TV?

[Guest Brian]

Mid 90's Triple A is very good. But anything following the Mexican recession and WCW talent raid tends to start sucking. But look for'93-'95, especially Rey vs. Juvi which was a very, very hot feud that produced some very, very great matches.

[Guest razazteca]

I like the mini luchadores from AAA sans Chucky vs Crueli

 

La Parka works for AAA, well he did, not sure if this matters anymore as Jr has been fighting Monster way too much.

 

Beware of the repeats on Galavision as they have shown the same damn show 4 times in a row once.

 

The stuff on Galavision now is from last year, Lucha de Vueta, indeed.

[Guest ConspiracyVictim]

Yes, definatley go out of your way to get early 90's AAA. They had some great talent along with some great feuds and storylines. Around early 93 - 94 there was alot of good talent coming in from New Japan and the states. You can pick up a Lucha block from around that time and get plenty of familiar names such as Vampiro, Jericho, and Ultimo Dragon on the CMLL side and Art Barr, Eddie G, Santo, Rey Jr, Psicosis and more on the AAA side...

[Guest razazteca]

Just curious did Benoit ever use the Pegasus Kid/Wild name in Mexico, if so what company and were the matches any good?

[Guest Brian]

Benoit wrestled under his name in Mexico as far as I know. AAA mainly, as I think he came in under the Guerrero connection (AAA) I think he had a tour early on in like 90-91, and another short one before starting to work with the WWE for ark matches in 1994-1995, than he got picked up by WCW.

[Guest Jonathan Barber]

I don't think Benoit ever went under Pegasus Kid in Mexico, only in Japan, to my knowledge...

[Guest ConspiracyVictim]

Benoit was under the Pegasus Kid gimmick at the beginning of his stay in Mexico I believe, but he lost a mask match to Villano III in UWA.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

1) Does AAA have any redeeming qualitites? I have heard the current AAA is shit, but the stuff from the past (around WWC time) is decent. Should I go out of my way to try to get some of the old AAA stuff?

AAA is not shit don't believe the hype. Nowadays its an awesome but weird mix of greatness, some truely awful workers and some of the most bizarre sleezy stuff you will ever see in a wrestling ring.

 

El Dandy is the king. Heavy Metal defys the laws of drug taking by still being alive and wrestling good matchs. Super Crazy, Psicosis, La Parka and Mr Aguila do their stuff on the occasion. GRONDA before the leg break was the best roided up one move freak since Goldberg. Octagoncito is the midget Rey Rey but better . And where else are you gonna see stupid ish like a boyband vs tranvestite's vs Nazi storm troopers.

 

Don't expect the slickness of EMLL or even the thing to be anywhere near as good. Its the Osaka Pro to EMLL's Toryumon if that makes sense. Just spark a few joints and be entertained by the clowns.

 

 

Oh and things to look out for in Lucha apart from the women are the sweet sounds of police sirens in the background. I swear I have heard gunshots being fired in Monterrey as well.

 

 

 

And people should crawl across glass for mid 90's AAA. For one theres the genious that was Art Barr and two they could throw out matches like Jushin Liger/Tiger Mask III/Hijo del santo/Octagon vs. Eddy Guerrero/Psicosis/La Parka/Blue Panther.

[Guest ConspiracyVictim]

Well I guess that to a stoner AAA would be great...but take it from me, a guy who has been to two live shows, its not that good. It has some wacky stuff but alot of it just isnt funny and is just plain stupid. They rarely have actual good matches that have any type of structure and they should never be compared to Osaka Pro (seeing as how OPW lets their great wrestlers actually wrestle and not job to crappy ass Jason the Terrible)

[Guest Raven_Effect01]

I've got a question: In AAA, how can Psychosis have his mask back on if he lost it back in WCW? Wouldn't his fellow people in Mexico issue death threats or something if he put it back on, considering it goes against the Mexican tradition? Or is someone else playing Psychosis?

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

How about an early 90's WWF Survivor Series comparison then. A mix of a few great workers, wrestlers on so many drugs they can't remember if they are heel or face in the middle of matches and loads of ridiculus gimmicks.

 

 

If you don't buy many tapes then people are best sticking with EMLL. But if you watch way to much stuff and just want a nice change out of the ordinary AAA is good fun.

[Guest j.o.b. squad]

I've got a question: In AAA, how can Psychosis have his mask back on if he lost it back in WCW? Wouldn't his fellow people in Mexico issue death threats or something if he put it back on, considering it goes against the Mexican tradition? Or is someone else playing Psychosis?

the real psicoses wrestles in mexico under the name of nicho de milionare(or some thing like that)

 

the guy who wrestles a psicosis in mexico under the mask is a fake. and they hada match against each other a few months ago

[Guest razazteca]

Nowadays its an awesome but weird mix of greatness, some truely awful workers and some of the most bizarre sleezy stuff you will ever see in a wrestling ring.

too much Monster & Chucky vs Crulie & Abrile matches. And AAA hardcore matches have much to desire, as they try using ladders, chairs and ply wood.....its just not the same.

 

Octagoncito is the midget Rey Rey but better

its the only reason why I watch AAA now, but Mascita Sagrada, La Parkita, and Mini Vipers are just as good.

 

El Dandy is the king

True but in the match for the National Lightweight Title of El Dandy vs Hijo de Perro Aguayo was just shit, as the production was poor with different cameras being used. One camera had poor lighting and the other one was in good lightning. Hell it RF video had better production compared to this outdoor show.

 

Barrio Boys suck, Zorro and Randy is average at best.

[Guest Raven_Effect01]

the guy who wrestles a psicosis in mexico under the mask is a fake. and they hada match against each other a few months ago

I thought it was a fake. Thanks.

 

I think I saw Nicho De Millionare wrestle on a CMLL show I watched not too long ago, and it did look like the real Psychosis due to his now shorter hair that I recognized from NWA-TNA and WWA.