Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Well, they're going to be in a bind with one brand getting three PPVs in a row (SurSer, Armageddon, Royal Rumble) and the other one only getting two. At the same time, KOTR and SSlam months will feel like, well, like they do now with ultra-quick angles if SurSer went to a brand. They ought to just give SummerSlam to a brand and get it over with. I can understand WHY KotR is a one-brand show, and if they change the name and the theme I can understand why, too. KotR is the show where new, young talent is supposed to go over and be put on a platform where they can be compared to the people already on top. That's obviously the last thing on ANYONE'S minds in Connecticut right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted March 2, 2003 I think KOR should go away and then rename the June ppv. Almost all the KOR's have sucked anyways. There may have been 2 decent ones, but for the most part the show sucks. I think the ony dual brand shows should be Rumble and Mania. All the other shows should be dual brand if this is the path they really want to take. I can see people not wanting to shell any money for any of the shows that aren't dual brand because of the feeling that if it's not a dual brand show, it's not special and hence not worth your money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Frankie Williams Report post Posted March 2, 2003 And not that I care that much, but where's Steiner? He'll have to do something on the show. Im guessing that he'll wrestle Batista. I cant picture Goldust vs Batista over Goldust vs Orton. Steiner vs Batista has the chance to be the worst match since the invention of wrestling in Grecco Roman times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest teke184 Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Oh, I agree, cena could be big. But like you said, now is NOT the time. Conisdering the overall lack of star-power on the heel-side of SD!, why not start getting the guy over now? I love how the WWE sees someone is over (Y2J, RVD), sort of pushes them a little bit, shafts them back down the card, one year later decides to push them big time and then wonders why they are not as over as they were a year prior. They have been doing that for years now and Cena will probably follow suit. This is slightly different from the RVD situation. Cena was kind of over but not a breakout star at the time of his depush. If they'd continued pushing him for a few weeks, he might well have gotten to that level. RVD, OTOH, was over enough to warrant the title SEVERAL times when he got depushed (late 2001 when Austin and Angle were on top, at the beginning of 2002 when Jericho was on top, mid-2002 when Taker was on top, September when Trips was on top, and November when HBK was on top). This last one seems to have killed off his crowd support, although he's still only a good series of matches with an Eddy Guerrero (or a bump machine like Jeff Hardy in mid-2001) to get back to that level. EDIT- I see you mean Cena "now" as opposed to his initial depush. Cena probably does need to be pushed as a top heel since they're a little short on that side, but that's dependant on what happens at Mania. If Angle wins at Mania (no matter how remote a chance he may have), they don't need another heel quite yet. If the Guerreros stay as heels and DON'T win the tag titles, they can be heel challengers. If Rhyno turns heel, he could be a top challenger. etc. etc. etc. The best thing for him to do for now is to start feuding with some face midcarder that he can beat in order to establish his skills and his viciousness. That may be a problem because they're short on midcard faces right now. Rey Misterio's tied up with Mattitude. Rikishi, who's already feuded with Cena anyway, is tied up with the FBI 2003. Kidman is a possibility but he's a heatsink like William Regal. Who else is there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest geniusMoment Report post Posted March 2, 2003 How long do you guys think this WWE-Heyman relationship will work? I know he will never start his own promotion again, there would probably be a riot because of all his past debts. But if a big money man gets involved in a promotion would Heyman bolt if he could get a booking job? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted March 2, 2003 I think Heyman would bolt, but he'd wait to see who was a part of the upstart promotion. Personally I'd love to see Heyman released and then go to TNA, where Russo would have to be released in order for Heyman to work there. With what TNA already has, I could see Heyman's influence working well for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest teke184 Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Heyman won't bolt until the ECW bankruptcy is finished. More than one person says that Heyman's biggest coup since entering the WWE was convincing the bookers to use ECW in the InVasion (WWE council Jerry McDevitt was on vacation that week and, if he was there, would have told them not to do it) and, then, get involved with the bankruptcy proceedings in order to bail him out and buy the ECW footage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ace309 Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Am I the only one who thinks KOTR should be built up as the two brands mixing? I mean, come on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest teke184 Report post Posted March 2, 2003 No, you aren't. The problem is that Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, and Summerslam are THE three big shows of the year. That leaves KOTR and Survivor Series as the other two and, frankly, Survivor Series has more history and a better track record of matches. If KOTR goes RAW-only, though, it will destroy the entire concept of the PPV because the King of the Ring shouldn't just be determined from one side of the roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MarvinisaLunatic Report post Posted March 2, 2003 They should bring back the In Your House Titles for the Brand Specific PPVs and shorten them to 2 hours. There is no way that either show can support 3 hours (unless they bust out some 30-40 minute matches, which would actually be worse for the RAW PPV). Theres probably a need to make the dual brand PPVs 4 hours so they can fit the same amount of wrestling for each brand on to the dual PPV. The idea of 2 months worth of build up seems to make the PPVs more meaningful. I just thought of something..I think Smackdown, with the real title, should get the KOTR PPV since the lineage of that belt and the tournament are sorta linked together somewhat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest teke184 Report post Posted March 2, 2003 They won't do that. The only reason they've made almost as much PPV money this year compared to last yeare was due to them raising the prices from $30 to $35. Add that together with DirecTV carrying the PPVs again, expanding the PPV universe by 20%, and they STILL came up short from last year's total. Going from 12 3-hour PPVs at an average cost of $35 each to 1 at $40 (Wrestlemania) 3 and $35 (Survivor Series, Summerslam, and Royal Rumble), and 8 at $20 each (the rest) will immediately destroy their PPV revenue for the year. Things will get worse when they realize that the only shows that will have a buyrate above .15 are the four co-promoted shows. Even if the buyrates for the four big shows increases, it won't be enough to offset the fact that they went from drawing about .5-.7 per lesser PPV to about a .1-.2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted March 2, 2003 hmm...let's see. Who would be the heel in the Kane/RVD storyline? The obvious answer is KAne since people would rather boo him than RVD. Unfortunately that doesn't seem like the way it's heading. Which really blows extra hard since RVD's heel turn would likely begin with LOSING to an unover face like Kane. Also...Fuck the WWE for wanting Taker's winning streak at Mania to end at the hands of an unover no talent sloppy won't be in the company because he'll paralyze someone soon enough green hoss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 2, 2003 hmm...let's see. Who would be the heel in the Kane/RVD storyline? The obvious answer is KAne since people would rather boo him than RVD. Unfortunately that doesn't seem like the way it's heading. Which really blows extra hard since RVD's heel turn would likely begin with LOSING to an unover face like Kane. To tell you the truth, bps, the new optimistic Anglesault sees RVD winning at mania. the new optimistic Anglesault also thinks that this little "load the PPVs up with people no one cares about on one brand shows" idea will work just fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted March 2, 2003 I'm not really comfortable with this new Anglesault. Let's just take a look at what a Raw PPV would look like. HHH vs. Booker Jericho vs. Michaels RVD vs. Kane Steiner vs. Batista Dudleys vs. Storm/Regal Goldust vs. Orton (Leg at approximatly 45%) Jeff Hardy vs. Whoever. (Hurricane) Test vs. Christian Chick fight Now can you imagine paying 25-35 bucks for this? Honestly. Let me remind you there's a real possibility that HBK, HHH, and Kane could all be in the ring for anywhere from 15 minutes to half an hour. Each. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Many months ago I was able to form a RAW only pay per view that I would pay for with the talent (ha) on the show. However...filling the other months would be impossible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted March 2, 2003 I had just finished reading the lead story with alot of what was already posted......the story on Heyman was interesting for sure. I'm sure this will start up the TOA viewpoint again on Heyman, but after reading this weeks issue, I can't see how someone can't logically say that Heyman didn't do good for Smackdown when he was booking that show. There was a part in the issue where he basically went down the line with every guy that was or currently is on Smackdown and he assessed how they were handled. How anyone cant see that Big Show, for example, showed an impovement in character development when he moved to Smackdown is blind AND naive to think that Heyman had nothing to do with it. The same goes for guys like Hardy, hell even Angle in terms of character development, they FINALLY turned him into a serious heel. Guys like Cena were given opportunities to play on their strengths as well.......truth be told that is classic Heyman......to go with a strong quality of a worker and focus on it. Look at RVD in ECW. Inversely, look at how such guys as Jericho and Christian floundered into relatively stale characters when they were moved to Raw (another name that comes to mind is Rico) from Smackdown. It's not coincidence, if you ask me. ---- About the ppv split thing........I really think if they are going to give KOTR to Raw, they got to counteract for Smackdown and throw something of a special gimmick to go with for their July ppv. These first ppvs for each brand are going to be important to grab the viewer with them initially, so you have to load them up with something interesting. The KOTR tourney is good enough for Raw......not sure what exactly they could do for the July ppv though. Is it worth using the Elimination Chamber solely for this ppv every year? Probably not. Perhaps think of something new.......maybe a scramble madness fatal four way between 4 random picked tag teams, with the winners of that match taking each other in the main event for a title shot at SummerSlam? I dunno........point is they should consider bringing in some gimmick or adding something new to that show, IMO. I would say get rid of Survivor Series or give that to Smackdown to use for the July ppv, but the way things are laid out, that would give one of the brands an extra ppv yearly. So it needs to stay.......either that or you also split up SummerSlam and Survivor Series to the brands as well (which is probably a great idea to seperate the brands even more actually). Also would do one other change up.......switch around No Way Out and Royal Rumbles months around. The way its laid out we will have a Raw ppv in Dec, RR in Jan, and then a Smackdown ppv in Feb. Not exactly the ideal way to build to Mania XX really. Have the Smackdown ppv to Jan, and then move the RR to Feb. That would also make that "time of the year" extra special probably. I also think its a horrible move to keep these ppvs priced at 35 bucks, at least for now. To make this move smoother for the fans, I think they should drop them down to at least 25. Go with this for the first year in until after Mania XX, keep the big 4 at 35 if they want. The lower price tag may signal to some of IYH reborn, but I think it could still work. Either that or offer a package deal for fans........you pay a certain price and get one of the brands first 3 ppvs or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted March 2, 2003 One other thing I forgot to mention, in the No Way Out report in the Observer there was a comment by Dave Stubbs of the Montreal Gazzette on the reaction of fans after the ppv ended live there. "A truly appaling main event, worse than bad. I can't describe the way the arena deflated at the finish. Absolute, total disgust." I can't wait to see when they come to Montreal for their next big show, because the crowd probably won't be half as hot and likely not even sold out. They're slowly killing off that territory with rehashing SS 97 over and over, but they don't seem to get it. Sure Montreal will always be known for that, but that doesn't mean they have to revisit it in a screwbob angle (ar at least do something to remind the fans) every damn time they are there. Thats just Vince's ego more than anything that demands this, I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nanks Report post Posted March 2, 2003 If they're going to use Survivor Series as one of the joint brand PPVs they'd be mad not to go back to the old Survivor Series format for a Raw v Smackdown event. That'd actually be interesting stuff. Getting to see superstars from the different brands facing off. Kinda like the Rumble, but better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RedJed Report post Posted March 2, 2003 If they're going to use Survivor Series as one of the joint brand PPVs they'd be mad not to go back to the old Survivor Series format for a Raw v Smackdown event. That'd actually be interesting stuff. Getting to see superstars from the different brands facing off. Kinda like the Rumble, but better. I agree, that would be ideal to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Although I clearly Understand your arguement about The Rumble...I really can't fatahom an Royal Rumble any time but Sunday before Super Bowl ... It's really the ONLY PPV that has an traditional Date. Even Mania switches from March and April... If you want to Give Smackdown an Gimmick PPV...Don't have it at Vengence but rather No Mercy...Just to seperate the PPVs...Of course, The logical Gimmic would be War Games... But what about the old and oft-forgotten Lethal Lottery? The winner of the Battle Royal Would face the Champion at SurSer... Yes, they will need to make Mania-40 Bucks Rumble/Slam/Surser-34.99 Raw/SD Brand -24.99 or hell, I'll settle for 29.99. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Will Scarlet Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Steiner vs Batista has the chance to be the worst match since the invention of wrestling in Grecco Roman times. I don't think it's going to be that bad. I am much more concerned about Taker/Jones vs. Show/Albert. When Albert's the best worker in a match, you know you have SERIOUS problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Banky Report post Posted March 2, 2003 EDIT- I see you mean Cena "now" as opposed to his initial depush. Cena probably does need to be pushed as a top heel since they're a little short on that side, but that's dependant on what happens at Mania. If Angle wins at Mania (no matter how remote a chance he may have), they don't need another heel quite yet. If the Guerreros stay as heels and DON'T win the tag titles, they can be heel challengers. If Rhyno turns heel, he could be a top challenger. etc. etc. etc. The best thing for him to do for now is to start feuding with some face midcarder that he can beat in order to establish his skills and his viciousness. That may be a problem because they're short on midcard faces right now. Rey Misterio's tied up with Mattitude. Rikishi, who's already feuded with Cena anyway, is tied up with the FBI 2003. Kidman is a possibility but he's a heatsink like William Regal. Who else is there? Cena should face Benoit at the PPV with Chris going over. As I've said before, it would give someone with an assload of charisma to teach benoit a little something, while Cena can learn a thing or two from the best true wrestler in the company. Both sides win. It would be a great opportunity for both men. Plus, if they have Benoit seriously go after the title at the April PPV, it would make Cena look good even though he still lost at WM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Benoit doesn't need help in in-ring charisma and Cena's not going to help in teaching him anything. Tinker with his mic work, not with what works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Banky Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Benoit doesn't need help in in-ring charisma and Cena's not going to help in teaching him anything. Tinker with his mic work, not with what works. Not in-ring charisma, just how to connect with the audience in a non-wrestling manner. Benoit's mic skills are atrocious, and he'll never become a total player until he works on that. If he and Cena play off each other in and outside the ring, it could be beneficial for both. When has Benoit ever gotten a big reaction when he wasn't feuding with a charismatic opponent? Never. He was over against Austin and Angle. He even had trouble getting a reaction against the Rock. Him fighting Rhyno or Team Angle will get him nowhere. Atleast a feud with someone articulate and witty will switch things up for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dangerous A Report post Posted March 2, 2003 Yes, they will need to make Mania-40 Bucks Rumble/Slam/Surser-34.99 Raw/SD Brand -24.99 or hell, I'll settle for 29.99. I wouldn't pay over $20.00 for any single brand shows, including Smackdown. WWE hasn't done a good enough job of differentiating the two brands to warrant me to pay the $34.95 price tag. To add, I have a local sports bar that I go to for the ppv's anyway, but I could see myself skipping single brand shows because I know they aren't going to be anything special that you can't see on free tv anyway. That's going to be their problem. Trying to get people to think that the event they are watching is special enough to shell money out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 2, 2003 I go to the bars too...So it makes ZERO impact on how much they charge because I will just go with a few friends and spend about 15 on beer and Wings... I wouldn't be shocked if they bust out Gimmick Match after gimmick matches to sell the Single brand show... As matter of fact...I am willing to say that WE WILL get an Hour Long Iron Man match at some point soon...Hopfully Benoit/Angle OR likely if Austin is in 2001 mode...against an Motivated Jericho or HHH... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted March 3, 2003 One problem is as soon as you lower the price for a show, the buys go DOWN. (yeah, i know it sounds weird but hear me) Basically, you are saying that it is an inferior show...thats why its cheaper. (Of course this is true and it should be cheaper, but you get my point) i dont want seperate ppv's....if they want more ppv revenue then why don't they add some one off shows....a cruiser tourney a tag team tourney, a world title tourney after some screwjob, etc. the split ppv idea sucks bad...i cant think of a really good show using EITHER squad...thats just terrible. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
