Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted March 5, 2003 http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat...D7PIR1B80_story Man Arrested for Wearing Peace T-Shirt March 5, 2003 03:09 AM EST ALBANY, N.Y. - A man was charged with trespassing in a mall after he refused to take off a T-shirt that said "Peace on Earth" and "Give peace a chance." Mall security approached Stephen Downs, 61, and his 31-year-old son, Roger, on Monday night after they were spotted wearing the T-shirts at Crossgates Mall in a suburb of Albany, the men said. The two said they were asked to remove the shirts made at a store there, or leave the mall. They refused. The guards returned with a police officer who repeated the ultimatum. The son took his T-shirt off, but the father refused. "'I said, `All right then, arrest me if you have to,'" Downs said. "So that's what they did. They put the handcuffs on and took me away." Downs pleaded innocent to the charges Monday night. The New York Civil Liberties Union said it would help with his case if asked. Police Chief James Murley said his officers were just responding to a complaint by mall security. "We don't care what they have on their shirts, but they were asked to leave the property, and it's private property," Murley said. A mall spokeswoman did not return calls Tuesday seeking comment. Monday's arrest came less than three months after about 20 peace activists wearing similar T-shirts were told to leave by mall security and police. There were no arrests. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 5, 2003 What a bunch of bullshit. People can't even wear peace t-shirts any more? Somebody get me a ticket to Japan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Powerplay Report post Posted March 5, 2003 Am I the only one who notes that this isn't the government doing this and just some Mall in Albany? I mean, it's not like there are government gestapo officers doing this, this is just some guards doing their duty to a private company. I'm sure this will be taken care of in the courts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted March 5, 2003 My only question is, were they doing anything to draw attention to themselves? If they were being obnoxious then they should have been tossed out, if not them it's stupid. A person should be able to wear just about any shirt they want to. "Give peace a chance" is not offensive, in this case it's silly but not offensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 5, 2003 My only question is, were they doing anything to draw attention to themselves? If they were being obnoxious then they should have been tossed out, if not them it's stupid. A person should be able to wear just about any shirt they want to. "Give peace a chance" is not offensive, in this case it's silly but not offensive. They weren't doing anything wrong. They just had on peace t-shirts. And I don't think it's silly at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted March 5, 2003 It's silly because we gave peace a chance for 12 years and Saddam has refused to allow that peace to continue by his refusal to abide by agreemetns he made. I swear some of you must think that the stuff Saddam signed in '91 just now took effect and that he really hasn't be doing anything wrong. I suppose they did just take effect in essence when Bush started trying to get them enforced, but they were there for 12 years. How do you know they weren't doing anything wrong? I tend to doubt they were but peaceniks have done some wacky shit in the past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 5, 2003 It's silly because we gave peace a chance for 12 years and Saddam has refused to allow that peace to continue by his refusal to abide by agreemetns he made. I swear some of you must think that the stuff Saddam signed in '91 just now took effect and that he really hasn't be doing anything wrong. I suppose they did just take effect in essence when Bush started trying to get them enforced, but they were there for 12 years. How do you know they weren't doing anything wrong? I tend to doubt they were but peaceniks have done some wacky shit in the past. I don't know if they were but I think the article would have mentioned it if they were. Nonetheless, I'm almost certain the mall will put some kind of spin on this (in their favor). And frankly, this isn't the thread to debate the war. We don't even know if the shirt was in relation to Iraq. And really, who cares if it was? Perhaps he's had the shirt since Vietnam. There were a lot of "Give peace a chance" shirts back then as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted March 5, 2003 The two said they were asked to remove the shirts made at a store there, or leave the mall. They refused. I'd say that it was in relation to the present if they just had the things made. Maybe they put on the shirts and made a little noise about it, causing a few other mall shoppers to voice their disaproval of the men's attire and political view points and mall security realized that the men could cause civil unrest in the mall and decided to nip the problem in the bud. The 61 year old asked to be arrested. It probably reminded him of his youth when he was protesting the Vietnam War (which I assume he did, given his age and apparell). That could have happend and it very well might not have happened. I assume the mall wanted to prevent a fight of something. I think the mall was wrong to ask them to take off the shirts, who wants to see a 61 year olf guy topless? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 5, 2003 It's the mall's fault- not the governments. I'd like to hear the other side of the story though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest treble charged Report post Posted March 5, 2003 Reading that story, it just seems like there's something missing. I can't believe that in today's society, someone would get kicked out of a mall for something as simple and in-offensive as a shirt saying 'Give Peace a Chance'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest converge241 Report post Posted March 5, 2003 what? i heard this on the radio but thought it was a joke unreal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mad Dog Report post Posted March 5, 2003 Something is being left out of this story. We seem to be getting the end result of something but no cause. Most mall secruity don't give a damn what you do as long as your not stealing or creating a scene. It kind of sounds like they were making somewhat of a scene by the way they reacted. And it's not the goverments fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted March 5, 2003 Nothing will come of this. It's highly doubtful the man will even be charged with anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LooseCannon Report post Posted March 5, 2003 Monday's arrest came less than three months after about 20 peace activists wearing similar T-shirts were told to leave by mall security and police. There were no arrests. I think there's an implication that there was a raucous caused by an earlier group wearing similar shirts and the mall security got ansy about the whole thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Olympic Slam Report post Posted March 5, 2003 My guess is that the mall didn't want some kind of a disturbance to occur. When I took my senior high school trip to Disneyland we were barred from wearing clothing with ANY kind of logo because they didn't want fights or anything similiar to break out between rival schools. But something is missing from this story, perhaps this peace guy looked like trouble or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2003 Big freaking deal, it's not like the Constitution is being burned because two nobodies were kicked out of a mall. I'd be interested to see what kind of spin the article put on the situation rather than the mall - especially since the mall even sold them the shirts to begin with. I don't remember hearing about the Facist Mall of America so there's def more to this story than what's been told. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 5, 2003 Big freaking deal, it's not like the Constitution is being burned because two nobodies were kicked out of a mall. I'd be interested to see what kind of spin the article put on the situation rather than the mall - especially since the mall even sold them the shirts to begin with. I don't remember hearing about the Facist Mall of America so there's def more to this story than what's been told. Or, alternativly, the mall is run by a crazy, war-mongering nationalist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Here's the shirt. NOT SAFE FOR WORK.. Er.. MALL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Those shirts remind me of an SNL Kattan/Parnell sketch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Some Guy Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Big freaking deal, it's not like the Constitution is being burned because two nobodies were kicked out of a mall. I'd be interested to see what kind of spin the article put on the situation rather than the mall - especially since the mall even sold them the shirts to begin with. I don't remember hearing about the Facist Mall of America so there's def more to this story than what's been told. Or, alternativly, the mall is run by a crazy, war-mongering nationalist. Yeah, that *MUST* be it. Lord knows that the peaceniks have never ever never ever caused a problem in this country, like starting riots and blowing up buildings. I touched on it earlier in the thread but it seems to me that the article picked up from where the peaceniks were told to take their shirts off and gives no explanation for why they were approached. That leaves us to speculate and some of us will look dumb if the truth ever comes out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Big freaking deal, it's not like the Constitution is being burned because two nobodies were kicked out of a mall. I'd be interested to see what kind of spin the article put on the situation rather than the mall - especially since the mall even sold them the shirts to begin with. I don't remember hearing about the Facist Mall of America so there's def more to this story than what's been told. Or, alternativly, the mall is run by a crazy, war-mongering nationalist. Or we just haven't heard the whole story Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Yeah, that *MUST* be it. Lord knows that the peaceniks have never ever never ever caused a problem in this country, like starting riots and blowing up buildings. I touched on it earlier in the thread but it seems to me that the article picked up from where the peaceniks were told to take their shirts off and gives no explanation for why they were approached. That leaves us to speculate and some of us will look dumb if the truth ever comes out. It's a possibility. Like I said, the shirt wearers could be at fault. That's why I said *ALTERNATIVLY*. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 6, 2003 It's silly because we gave peace a chance for 12 years and Saddam has refused to allow that peace to continue by his refusal to abide by agreemetns he made. I swear some of you must think that the stuff Saddam signed in '91 just now took effect and that he really hasn't be doing anything wrong. I suppose they did just take effect in essence when Bush started trying to get them enforced, but they were there for 12 years. Beat me to it. I'm not wuite sure why people can't understand what you judt said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Silence Report post Posted March 6, 2003 A business has the right to refuse service. I think this was probably extreme, however, I haven't heard both sides of the story. If the two in question were chanting anti-war slogans...ect. then maybe the Mall folk were right. If not, then it sounds kind of silly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Olympic Slam Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Well the two guys were on O'Reilly an hour ago and nothing seemed offensive in the least according to the story they told. The shirts (which were made an hour earlier at a mall shop) were perfectly acceptable and they didn't do anything to incur the wrath of mall security. My guess is that the mall has had trouble with these peace types in the past (what a shock) and didn't want an incident to break out. Hehe, how ironic. These two guys were wearing shirts protesting a pre-emptive strike yet were the target of a pre-emptive strike by mall security. What a world Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted March 6, 2003 I saw the O'Reilly segment, too. My hunch is that the mall was still thinking back to the hippie protest earlier. Personally, the only think I'd do if I was this guy and his son is not shop there anymore and not to be afraid of letting other people know what happened to them at this place. I'm actually thinking now about making some pro-war shirts... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BDC Report post Posted March 6, 2003 Of course they aren't going to convict themselves on national television. Something still seems left out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted March 6, 2003 People saying "Well, this was just the mall doing what they are eligable to do" forget one thing: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/03/04...reut/index.html Downs is due back in court for a hearing on March 17. He could face up to a year in prison if convicted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted March 6, 2003 If these people get convicted, the nations going to have a bird. O'Reilly himself said they did no wrong, I mean, he'd champion them and get them off. Lord knows I wouldn't want to be asked to leave the premises of a mall because I was wearing a "NO WAR IN IRAQ!" Tee-shirt or something. Tee shirt? T-shirt? Whatever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mad Dog Report post Posted March 7, 2003 I think there's something missing from the story. And it is his own fault for not listening to secruity. No one was putting a gun to his head telling him to not take the shirt off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
