Greedy Portland teachers union votes to work

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

The evil teachers union in Portland has decided, overwhelmingly to avoid a strike. To avoid cutting the school year and other programs, the teachers have decided to work 10 days for free, and gave in to other concessions which will result in a 5% pay cut overall. It has shocked many people, including the teacher's union itself. Here's the story:

 

Teachers avert strike, agree to work for free

 

Portland educators accept deal requiring 10 unpaid days

 

PORTLAND, Oregon (Reuters) -- Portland teachers have overwhelmingly ratified a contract that includes an unprecedented offer to work 10 days for free, accept a 1 percent pay raise and other concessions to stave off cuts in education spending and health benefits.

 

The two-year pact includes the remainder of this school year and ends with the school year in 2004.

 

It reverses an earlier union vote to strike, hinged on government officials' promises to temporarily raise taxes on businesses and perhaps personal incomes to help close a budget gap that threatened to lop 24 days of classes off the school year.

 

The 3,300-member union's decision to work for free stunned labor experts.

 

"I have never heard of such a thing," said Rick Hurd professor of labor studies at Cornell University's School of Industrial and Labor Relations.

 

The union's concessions underscore the deep budget woes staggering cities and towns in Oregon and in other states struggling through lengthy localized recessions. Oregon's unemployment is among the highest in the nation.

 

The 10 free days work equates to a five percent pay cut this year, but will preserve the 171-day class schedule if new tax revenues cover the other 14 days scheduled to be cut.

 

"This is disastrous ... not only from the perspective of fewer and fewer middle income jobs, but also considering the challenge of our country to improve education. Working to impoverish teachers is self-defeating and disastrous," said Lawrence Mishel, president of the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal think-tank in Washington, D.C.

 

Cutbacks, high taxes

Portland's teachers currently earn $28,725 for beginning teachers to $60,371 annually for those at the top of the scale.

 

President Ann Nice of the Portland Association of Teachers said the contract "temporarily moves us out of a crisis. But Portland teachers deserve far more than they are getting."

 

Oregon, suffering one of the worst state budget shortfalls in the country, has slashed funding to schools as well as social services and law enforcement.

 

Portland, the state's largest school district with 53,000 students, has made the deepest cuts, but many other districts have shortened their school years. Portland's cuts made national headlines.

 

Business leaders, facing higher taxes, offered mixed support for the plan.

 

"I'm not thrilled to be paying higher taxes in this poor economy, but I'm willing to do it to support the kids," said Dana Herbert, who runs a business designing and manufacturing women's fashion accessories. "What small business wants more taxes? But I have two kids in school."

 

The Portland Business Alliance declined to comment, but it has previously said it will not support tax hikes until the school district reins in health care costs.

[Guest Some Guy]

the 171-day class schedule

 

Portland's teachers currently earn $28,725 for beginning teachers to $60,371 annually for those at the top of the scale.

 

Seems to me that $60,371 for 171 days of work (6 hrs a day, including two off periods and lunch if Portland is like my town) is extremely generous of the taxpayers.

 

More unions should take this lead. This one seems to realize that by striking they hurt those who they work to help, the students.

The teachers in my town who are paid a little better than Portland threaten to all take sick days at the same time regularilly (it is illegal for teachers to strike in MA.

[Guest Powerplay]

the 171-day class schedule

 

Portland's teachers currently earn $28,725 for beginning teachers to $60,371 annually for those at the top of the scale.

 

Seems to me that $60,371 for 171 days of work (6 hrs a day, including two off periods and lunch if Portland is like my town) is extremely generous of the taxpayers.

 

More unions should take this lead. This one seems to realize that by striking they hurt those who they work to help, the students.

The teachers in my town who are paid a little better than Portland threaten to all take sick days at the same time regularilly (it is illegal for teachers to strike in MA.

It's illegal in Michigan as well, making it hard for the Teachers to try and renegotiate their contract, especially in areas that just seem to be getting worse and worse. Personally, I hate those laws and will remain one reason why I will always hate John Engler.

[Guest Some Guy]

The teachers in my town and in Portland haev no reason to complain. They make plenty of money and get benifits for working 171 days a year. I wish I could find a job that required so little time and gave so much in return.

[Guest Powerplay]

The teachers in my town and in Portland haev no reason to complain. They make plenty of money and get benifits for working 171 days a year. I wish I could find a job that required so little time and gave so much in return.

Well, I can't say I feel for those teachers. My mom is a teacher in Detroit, and the last Republican Administration left the school system totally fucked up. They can't strike to protest, and basically they have very little voice now .

[Guest Some Guy]

How much is she making and how many days is she working?

[Guest MrRant]

I have two relatives that are teachers and make 35,000 a year after going back to school and obtaining masters... they only do the 180ish days of working as well while I work probably 250 and make less.

 

But they do use their own money for papers etc that they can't get from the school because of budget cuts so I am torn a bit.

 

I think there should be agreement to try and keep these cuts from getting too deep from the teacher side by a possible paycut (maybe 1-2%) while keeping benefits and it hopefully will work out while not completely shafting everyone.

[Guest Some Guy]

But they do use their own money for papers etc that they can't get from the school because of budget cuts so I am torn a bit.

.

The problem is that they make more than the system will burden. I fthey made less there would be more money for paper and stuff. Teachers, in general are paid quite well. There is only so much money that can be taxed and only so much of that can be poured into the public school system.

Another problem I have with teachers is that they use their position of authority to indocrinate their students with the "woe is me, I'm an underpaid and overworked teacher" horseshit and no one can stand up and dispute that for fear of negative repercussions in grades.

[Guest MrRant]

I never said they were underpaid (because many certainly aren't because I have seen people who are making 35,000 complain about making due when someone who is making 25,000 can. I think perhaps they need to re-evaluate what they are spending their money on)but that is why I think there should be a pay cut so that there can be papers and other supplies which I as a tax payer am paying for.

 

Unfortunately we also can't get a tax break when sending a kid to private school (that I know of... I could be wrong) so that way I know where exactly my money is going to.

 

Edit: Also I think these teacher unions should be erased. My relatives explained to me that you almost have to join them. They don't even believe have the stuff that the union puts out.

[Guest Some Guy]

Unions, like Marxism are a good idea in theory, but in practice they tend to do more harm than good. Look no further than MLB, the only place where millionaires will cry about not getting paid enough.

[Guest Bosstones Fan]

Teachers, in general are paid quite well. 

 

Another problem I have with teachers is that they use their position of authority to indocrinate their students with the "woe is me, I'm an underpaid and overworked teacher" horseshit and no one can stand up and dispute that for fear of negative repercussions in grades.

I don't know what state you live in, but Texas teachers are very underpaid. My mom has taught school for 21 years now, and I, a 24-year-old kid who's been out of college for only 18 months, make more annually than she does.

 

My mom has to put up with more bullshit in her classroom (i.e. inattentive, misbehaving kids, spineless administration who are afraid of punishing kids out of fear of being sued by a parent, and apathetic parents who don't give a shit about their kids' education and have no concern that their little Timmy is headed for a job with his name on his shirt) than I have ever had to put up with at any job...plus she spends literally hundreds of hours a year either staying late at school or bringing a huge pile of work home with her just because she can't keep up with it all.

 

The "overworked, underpaid" argument that you flatly reject as merely being "horseshit" is very real. The fact that you say that makes me think one of two things about you:

 

1. You were one of the kids in school who had a tough time with their teachers because you were a misbehaving degenerate who was constantly getting singled out in front of the class.

 

2. You've never had any experience either running a classroom or living under the same roof as someone who has so you really have no idea just what the hell you're talking about; you're merely spouting personal opinion or just going off of what others around might have said.

 

I figure it's more likely that #2 is the reason for your silly post, but I've been wrong before. Either way, it's grossly unfair that teachers get the shaft in pay, workload, morale, and hassle.

[Guest Some Guy]

So how much does your mom make a year? The fact that you make more than she does means nothing on it's own. Give me numbers and I'll respond.

 

1. You were one of the kids in school who had a tough time with their teachers because you were a misbehaving degenerate who was constantly getting singled out in front of the class.

 

I was a wise ass and a slacker in high school, but almost always got along with my teachers.

 

2. You've never had any experience either running a classroom or living under the same roof as someone who has so you really have no idea just what the hell you're talking about; you're merely spouting personal opinion or just going off of what others around might have said.

 

I look at the salary of the Portland and my home town's teahers, look at the amount of days they have to work and see no problem with how they are paid. Teachers CHOOSE to teach. They know the salary before they start, they know that they have to out up with bullshit from kids, they know that they have homework to correct and if they don't then they are ignorant. $60,000 a year puts you in the top 30% of wage earners in the country, if you have a spouse with a comprable salary then your household is pulling in over $100 grand before taxes. That's not hard to live on.

[Guest Bosstones Fan]

So how much does your mom make a year?  The fact that you make more than she does means nothing on it's own.  Give me numbers and I'll respond.

 

She makes around $39,000 a year now, I believe. She started at around $26,000, so it isn't like she's been getting big raises in the 21 years she's taught (plus the 7 she took off after my brother and I were born).

 

Teachers CHOOSE to teach.  They know the salary before they start, they know that they have to out up with bullshit from kids, they know that they have homework to correct and if they don't then they are ignorant. 

 

Most definitely true, all of it. But it's often a lot more trouble than it's worth, believe me.

 

$60,000 a year puts you in the top 30% of wage earners in the country, if you have a spouse with a comprable salary then your household is pulling in over $100 grand before taxes.  That's not hard to live on.

 

I never said it's impossible to live on a teacher's salary. I just said that I think they're underpaid. My dad's job actually pays a little bit less than my mom's, and my parents are doing just fine financially. They own three cars, have 7 more months to pay on a $130,000 house, are funding 90% of my brother's college education (after funding a similar amount of mine), and have a bare minimum of debt. So while they're not hurting, they certainly aren't rich. It's all in how you take care of your money.

[Guest Powerplay]

How much is she making and how many days is she working?

Right now? She works two different schools as a speechpathologist, makes about 55k, and I think maybe 180 or 190? She's a 15 year veteran, and things in the schools have gotten continually worse.

 

Edit: Around them, that is. There are teachers who have gotten mugged, beat up by parents, and her elementary school has metal detectors. It's not a very nice area. And just noticing the Teacher's Union thing, Detroit's needs a serious overhaul. It's basically not listening to who it should be and the last election was rather... shady. I find the Detroit Teacher's Union to be just really screwed up in general.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Seems to me that $60,371 for 171 days of work (6 hrs a day, including two off periods and lunch if Portland is like my town) is extremely generous of the taxpayers.

First of all, you're quoting the top scale which is pretty rare these days in Oregon. Many teachers give up because of the crowded classes and lack of resources, combined with the low pay. If teaching is such an easy job, I invite you to pursue that career since apparantly that's the job you're looking for. Remember, top scale is after years and years of investment in a very frustrating field.

[Guest Some Guy]

Seems to me that $60,371 for 171 days of work (6 hrs a day, including two off periods and lunch if Portland is like my town) is extremely generous of the taxpayers.

First of all, you're quoting the top scale which is pretty rare these days in Oregon. Many teachers give up because of the crowded classes and lack of resources, combined with the low pay. If teaching is such an easy job, I invite you to pursue that career since apparantly that's the job you're looking for. Remember, top scale is after years and years of investment in a very frustrating field.

I'm aware that $60k is the top scale, but they get raises just about every year, performance not with standing, ie they get automatic raises, at least that's how it's done here.

I'm also aware that many teachers give up because of problems they should have seen coming. It's too bad that more people son't look into their future vocation before they jump in. One of my college profs (a Socialist) claimed that she had no idea what teh pay for a prof at a state college made, she has a fucking PHD and didn't bother to see what all that work would get her in return. She's over 40 and still has college loans to pay off. It's her fault, she should have looked into it before investing so many years and so much money into college. The reason I mentioned she's a Socialist is because ahe truly believes in the Marxian theory that one should be able to do what ever makes them, happy and be paid according to their "need", whatever that is. She's wrong and so are many teachers.

 

I wonder if these teachers who cry the blues about class size and bad kids and salary actually went to public school. I did and I heard teachers whining about money, I saw large (20-30 students) class sizess and saw plenty of shit-head kids. Do propective teachers think that these kids just disappear, class sizes would magically go down, and salaries would dramically rise when they signed up? If so that's incredibly naive. It's like running for President and assuming that once you're elected that everything that's happened in the past would just go away and the office would be Utopian.

 

The federal government has never spent more money of education than they are going to this year. The problem is that the economy is bad and people are hurting, to expect raises and even more money poured into (failing) public schools is unfair. People are losing their jobs and the teacher's unions are calling for property tax increases so they don't have to "suffer" by not recieving as much of the raise they are supposed to get. The Portland union is the execption to the rule, virtually no union works for what's best for the whole, they work for what's best for them and are so short sighted that they don't see that they could run themselves out of a job. The Steelworkers are a perfect example of this. The Union has forced salaries so high that the Feds have to subsidise the entire steel business or it would go under and thousands would be out of a job, despite this they still won't give in a take a pay cut or at the very least not demand another raise. I am in no way demeaning how hard and dangerous it is to work in a steel factory but your salary has to be dicated by what the market will bear, if you demand too much then the business you work for is fucked.