Lyger killed the jr. division

[Guest Black Tiger]

Whenever someone complains that New Japan killed the Jr, division the only person to point the finger of blame at is Jyushin "Thunder" Lyger.

 

Lyger was so pissed off for the Tequila Bottle incident that he DEMANDED that Chosyu give him a heavyweight push. So to build himself up he could have simply vacated the Jr. Title and went over useless guys like Tadao Yasuda, Shiro Koshinaka, and other bottom card heavyweights, but NO!. Lyger has to destroy EVERY Junior in the divison to get his point accross. Some people blame WCW and Vince Russo, others blame Chosyu and New Japan. I think the blame belongs to LYGER!

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Some people blame WCW and Vince Russo, others blame Chosyu and New Japan. I think the blame belongs to LYGER!"

 

Your points make no sense.  Now that we got that out of the way, Liger was on the end of a horrible NJPW booking strategy that called for him to turn Heavyweight and squash the Juniors.  Liger was just following the booking orders.  NJ and WCW in early 2000 were so similiar in booking styles that it is a wonder NJ didn't start to fall as fast as WCW did.

 

Another your reason your point makes no sense is if you look at the 2001 wrestling year for NJ Juniors and see how Liger not only revamped and rebuilt the entire division but how he also used himself to put over others for the good of the division.  That is the real Liger, the guy who is a genious booker.  Liger of 2000 was forced to play politics.

 

2001 certainly wasn't the greatest year for NJ Juniors (as nothing has been since 1996) but Liger did a nice job of mixing up what had become a really loony division.  Otani and Kanemoto had brought huge levels no selling and dumb highspots to go along with the some what forgettable mat work that usually entails these matches.  In 2001, I saw the division improve on these things as highspots were still there, but there was more focus on how the matches were laid out.  You had Liger being able to carry anyone.  You had Tanaka (though not my favorite) adding some shooty mix to the matches.  You had Gedo and Jado bring in some legit heels to the division.  You had Samurai helping the young guys along as he is about as solid as they come.

 

Do you think the NJPW Juniors sucked in 2001?  I certainly don't.

 

Tim

[Guest Black Tiger]

I have yet to see any New Japan from 2001 or 2002. I'm trying to make my tape collection more "well rounded" by featuring other feds.

 

Here is my source of anger at Lyger for killing the Jr. divison, this is from Puroresufan.com

 

Well, actually that prestige was killed when New Japan sent Liger to Russo-infested WCW, where he was handled atrociously, losing the belt and then winning it back from a guy who wasn't even champion. A theory is that the embarrassment sent Liger over the edge and he decided to become Riki Choshu's machine and attempt to kill the junior division in exchange for a heavyweight push. This result wouldn't have been so bad if Liger vacated the belt and moved up to the heavyweight division. Instead, he went on a rampage and just killed the division for around 6 months, no-selling and squashing guys like El Samurai (one of his greatest rivals) in no time. Later in the year, Liger began to redeem himself and seemed content with going to and from each division. Now, he's more of his old self and sells openly for other juniors. "Black Liger" is still there, but it's not ridiculous. The belt is beginning to regain prestige, but Liger almost killed his legacy in one night with this shocking travesty

[Guest Stuart]

Here is my source of anger at Lyger for killing the Jr. divison, this is from Puroresufan.com

Hey, hey.

 

I wrote that some time ago. Please note, that's not actually what I think, but just a possible theory. I wrote that some time in 2000 I think, when I was still angry at Liger. However, after seeing the effort he made in 2001 to rebuild the division, I don't think Liger had anything to do with it, besides being a pawn. See, Choshu booked for the entire 1990s, but with rare exceptions (such as the SG Tag League with Liger & Pegasus team), he left the juniors to do their own thing and Liger booked. In 2000, I think he used his absolute power to intrude on the division though. I think he basically forced Liger to do this stuff, because Choshu went real weird in 2000. His booking slid after Kensuke won the G1 '97 (then IWGP shortly after), but was never really that crazy until 2000. I have another theory about why Choshu did this, but it's not a very refined one. A lot of the guys who Choshu pushed were very basic wrestlers, using basic moves. I think Choshu wanted to strip New Japan of it's flash, perhaps as a way to counter Inoki's shoot-style. He pushed guys with plain looks and little or average charisma in singles (Sasaki, Nakanishi, Nagata, Iizuka, Yoshie, Norton and his young prospect, Suzuki), while more charismatic "showmen" like Tenzan and Kojima did get pushed, but more as a tag team and Chono's push as the top heel never seemed to go anywhere, as he often found himself below matches like Kensuke vs. Iizuka and Kensuke vs. Nakanishi. I also think the junior division, which despite toning down, has a lot of flash (compared to the heavies) intruded on his vision, which may explain the sudden agenda. I may be way off the ball, but it's a theory I haven't heard before and if true, it's admirable in ways, but the execution couldn't have been worse.

 

EDIT: Also an addition, concerning the weekly TV show, most of which from 2000 I've seen. It does fit the theory, because the show got very boring, with guys like Yoshie wrestling two or three times per TV show at times, with little in terms of angle development and a very serious direction in general.

[Guest Joshi Guerrero]

Being fairly poor and Australian, I don't buy tapes that get bad reviews - thus I have seen very little NJPW from '00. But I have got 5 tapes full of Junior action from '01, and as far as I can see Ligers booking was a thing of beauty. Other than putting himself over Tanaka in the top of the super J, he hardly put a foot wrong.

 

In my admittedly fairly limited experience with New Japan it looks like one  of the best years the division has had since the "golden age".

[Guest Stuart]

Other than putting himself over Tanaka in the top of the super J, he hardly put a foot wrong.

I didn't think this was bad booking. Tanaka won a match between the two in March. Liger got his revenge in the BOSJ final in June. This set up a logical IWGP Jr. Title match between the two for the October Tokyo Dome show. However, greater powers (need I even name him?) intruded and RINGS shooter Naruse got the belt, then Ka Shin, who had perhaps the most atrocious Jr. Title reign I've ever seen.