HollywoodHalfwits.com

[Guest JMA]

It saddens me to think that the left wingers think that they can change things by crying about them. If the President launches the troops, there's nothing you can do about it. You may not like it, but it will not change things.

Wow. I'm so glad you aren't allowed to post here anymore.

[Guest Some Guy]

You can't compare WWII to the upcoming action in Iraq because the majority of the deaths in WWII were of Jews in the Nazi death camps.  Not soldiers.  The U.S. could've saved them by bombing the crematoriums or railroads but chose not to.  And anti-semitism still existed, and Nazism still existed.  And both ideas are still popular today.

I certainly can compare WWII's to this, it's very similar, but this time we haev history to look back and can prevent it from ahppening again,

 

about 6 millions Jews were killed by Hitler adn few million gypsies and other were killed as well. Abour TWENTY MILLION Russians dies in WWII. I think that alone disproves your point there.

 

MikeSC

And, uh, if the U.S bombed the crematoriums and railroads, wouldn't Jews have been killed? Kind of a no-win situation. But, outside of the Middle East, where is anti-Semitism popular?

 

France and Germany for one. they are still very bigoted and nationalistic people it is more centralized on Muslims now than Jews though. There is no other reason besides racism for their opposition to Turkey joing the EU. Those two countries have been dicking around with the Turks for decades (The Turks have become more and more "Western" at the behest of Germany and France only to be shot down over and over) and have threatened not to let them apply if they support the war in Iraq most recently. I wrote a paper that touched on it last semester.

In teh '30s Hitler preyed on the already existant anti-semitism of the German people. He took a lot further than i think most Germans were willing to go but he was democratically elected. You get what you pay for, or in this case vote for.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Where, on Earth, do you get the idea that the situation in Afghanistan has not improved A LOT? Girls can be EDUCATED NOW. That ALONE is a huge boon.

Female education is still not available in most parts of Afghanistan, and where it is, it's "separate but equal" at best. Since the government is still run by radical Muslims, just slightly less radical Muslims, although it's slightly better, there are still plenty of restrictions (like women have to have separate seating at movie theatres and other public events). And, worst of all, rape and physical abuse of women has gone through the roof:

 

The number of rapes of expatriate women was comparatively high in 2002. The last occurred a couple of months ago close to Qarqa Reservoir and the woman in question was beaten and then gang raped. We usually expect an increase in rapes when the security situation breaks down, not during a time of 'peace'. I dread to think how many Afghan women are being raped and silenced. The Minister of Interior recently told a foreign delegation that there is no problem with rape in Afghanistan. Maybe if he was a she he would have better awareness of the situation. Speaking to the head of the Afghan Association of Women Lawyers recently, she [who is she?] brought up a number of cases of women around Afghanistan who were threatened for raising their voices over certain issues such as girls' education. They were put in prison for fighting off sexual abusers in their own family,etc. The problems are vast and the solutions are too few at present.

 

Recently I lodged a complaint about a group of checkpoints close to the Pakistan Embassy in Kabul. Whenever I pass them to visit nearby offices, the soldiers come up with such obscenities that I become absolutely livid. The last time, as I scurried for 'cover' I saw that they had stopped an Afghan woman in a burqa and were verbally harassing her. I have often seen the soldiers feeling up the beggar women who wander around that area. Talking to rights organizations it would seem that many abuses are perpetrated at police and military checkpoints such as extortion, harassment of any ethnic groups which are not Tajik and Panjshiri and sexual harassment of young boys. After all the government has simply given oversized uniforms and guns to 16 year old Panjshiri peasants- what should we expect?

 

Yesterday I saw an article talking about the number of women trained by the Ministry of Interior as police to work at the airport, in the ministries, etc. It reads as if these women are there to support women, a sympathetic ear in the midst of a male-dominated, chauvinistic police force? Think again. These women have been around for a while in many cases. Some were trained by KHAD, others were trained later by the Mujahideen and the Taliban authorities, KHAD-style. They are not there for women or anything like that but to put them through the most humiliating body searches and most ridiculous security searches on the planet. I hope the latest training gave them an inclination that they do not need to grab breasts and stick their hands in women's crotches to do a body search. Having watched them in action for a number of years and, again, having been mistaken for an Afghan and gone through some interesting body searches, I think many simply like to 'take it out' on other women. Having said that I have met some who were charming, courteous, helpful and tried to be professional. But overall women and men cannot feel secure because there is a police force in their vicinity. I will not start on some of the horror stories from police stations.

 

Source: Afghanistan Reconstruction: One Year Later

 

Also, Some Guy, you're absolutely right about the high Russian death toll in WWII, although I think it was actually closer to 30 million (counting military and civilian casualties - the Nazis were just as brutal to Russian and communist prisoners as they were to Jewish ones, many times even more so because they feared reprisal from "the Jewish superpowers" that "controlled the world"), making them the group to have lost the single most from the War. However, as a Jew (albeit a Russian Jew) especially considering that I'm currently taking a Holocaust class and have an upcoming final on my mind, I have a tendency to let that overshadow the other deaths in the war. I apologize for my inaccuracy.

 

And Mike, in regards to bombing the crematoriums killing Jews, at the time there was a lot of rabbinical debate as to whether or not killing a few hundred or thousand to justify saving the greater Jewish community (because the "final solution" hadn't been implemented yet) that hadn't been deported yet or were in work camps (as opposed to death camps). They ruled that it was OK given the extreme literal life and death nature of the situation, especially when it became apparent that most Jews wouldn't make it out of the concentration camps alive anyway. However, I probably shouldn't mention this since that can be used to support your guys' "to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs" argument...

[Guest JMA]

I know in some Middle Eastern countries women are stoned to death if they are raped. Is this true in Afghanistan as well?

[Guest bob_barron]

Where, on Earth, do you get the idea that the situation in Afghanistan has not improved A LOT? Girls can be EDUCATED NOW. That ALONE is a huge boon. Are they poor? Yup. Will be for a long while.

In one of my school newspapers there's some article about a documentary someone did that says that the situation hasn't improved a lot.

 

I'll try to find a web link

[Guest JMA]

Isn't the opium trade starting up again in Afghanistan since the Taliban has been gone? Anyways, the best way to shut up celebs is not to give them attention. That's all they want, after all. Well, most, some celebs genuinely believe what they say. I wouldn't want to generalize them.

[Guest Ozymandias]

I SO agree. I really wish moronic celebrities like Charleton Heston and Arnold Schwarzennegger would just keep their mouths shut and stay out of politics.

 

What?

[Guest Ozymandias]

There you go, she basically confirmed that this is an anti-Bush protest first and anti-war protest second.  She and many others where more than willing to keep their mouths shut when Clinton was in office bombing countries but now that Bush is in office it's "hip" to speak out.  It's bullshit double standard partisan politics.

You can't call it a double standard because it's not the same thing. Clinton never went to war with anyone. Besides, few to no celebs protested about our campaign of mass-murder in Afghanistan last year, so it's fucking absurd to say they're just after Bush for whatever he does.

 

But here IS a nifty double standard:

 

Back in 1998 when Willy was going bomb-crazy to distract us from Hummergate, the Beastie Boys (among a handful of others including Sarandon & Robbins (that "report" (*snicker*) only took December 1998 into consideration - PURPOSELY ignoring September, October, November, & January '99)) spoke out about it on numerous occasions, including on national TV at the MTV Music Video awards and no one from the Right bit THEIR heads off about it like they are about celebs now. How come THEY weren't being "unAmerican traitors" when they spoke up about Clinton? Also, why weren't they lambasted by the, ahem, "liberal" media?

 

Because of, how did you say it, bullshit double standard partisan politics.

[Guest JMA]

That is an interesting double standard, Ozymandias.

[Guest DrTom]

Because of, how did you say it, bullshit double standard partisan politics.

And you think that's confined to one side of the political fence?

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Of course not, but then again, everyone loves bashing the "liberal media", turning a blind eye to this type of thing.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well, I think because everyone blurs the lines nowadays and assumes EVERYONE is a part of ONE side or the other. When you look deeper into things you will see there is more than 2 sides to everything. Now personally, I was 18 and just out highschool(and not a part of the smart marks) when Clinton did the bombing. However, whether it was wrong or not, you can't say a bombing on a specific target, and sending 300,000+ troops to invade a country and START a full scale war is the same thing. I disagree with the Clinton bombing & the war we are about to start, but to expect people to make the same stink over both of these issues is just silly to me.

[Guest NoCalMike]

But here IS a nifty double standard:

 

Back in 1998 when Willy was going bomb-crazy to distract us from Hummergate, the Beastie Boys (among a handful of others including Sarandon & Robbins (that "report" (*snicker*) only took December 1998 into consideration - PURPOSELY ignoring September, October, November, & January '99)) spoke out about it on numerous occasions, including on national TV at the MTV Music Video awards and no one from the Right bit THEIR heads off about it like they are about celebs now. How come THEY weren't being "unAmerican traitors" when they spoke up about Clinton? Also, why weren't they lambasted by the, ahem, "liberal" media?

 

Because of, how did you say it, bullshit double standard partisan politics.

Not to mention, the fact that no right wing member of the government had ANY problem "underminding the president" during Clinton's years, whether it was over the ludicrous Ken Starr crap, or when he bombed Iraq, and all you heard from the right was how it was 100% to provide a distraction from the Lewinsky scandal, however now when the left speaks out, suddenly we keep hearing how it is wrong to undermind the president.

[Guest JMA]

Of course not, but then again, everyone loves bashing the "liberal media", turning a blind eye to this type of thing.

A-fucking-men. The so-called "liberal media" was a term coined by Nixon to get his ass out of hot water.

[Guest Ozymandias]

Not to mention, the fact that no right wing member of the government had ANY problem "underminding the president" during Clinton's years, whether it was over the ludicrous Ken Starr crap, or when he bombed Iraq, and all you heard from the right was how it was 100% to provide a distraction from the Lewinsky scandal, however now when the left speaks out, suddenly we keep hearing how it is wrong to undermind the president.

I'll never forget when the Honorable Sen. John McCain publicly gave lukewarm-at-best support for Clinton's bombing campaign against the Milosevic regime in Kosovo. He got all kinds of shit for it from the right for DARING to lend tepid support to the then-President.

Just imagine the fucking UPROAR if the Democratic Party was giving shit to Dem. Senators for supporting Bush's war on Iraq.