Theory of who made hhh...

[Guest Dangerous A]

HHH is claimed by a large percentage of this board to be a political monster. I am under the firm belief that one of the ways to get over  to ME status besides having talent is play the backstage politics game. I am not saying that HHH doesn't play those games, I just believe a lot of people overrate how powerful backstage he really is. My theory as to what may have started his political ball rolling may upset quite a few people. I am not afraid of your flames.

 

Summer of 99. HHH is in the middle of his MONSTER PUSH. Some say maybe not deserved, but whatever. The wwf chose to give the man the ball. We build to a huge main event for summerslam with the governor of Minnesota as the special ref. What ended up happening? Austin pulled a power play and didn't want to job to HHH. They have to bring in Mick Foley in to get the #### title off of Austin because he won't even do a screw job finish. The wwf then has to hotshot the belt to HHH the next night on raw.

 

Do you think that maybe Austin's refusal to job and put HHH over that whole time maybe clicked in Hunter's head that he must do what he has to backstage to keep his spot? ####, even when Austin did the job to HHH at No Mercy 99, HHH was still not put over. Austin did the Nash. He jobbed while not putting the man over. It wasn't until HHH's program with Foley that HHH was seen as a viable ME'er.

 

My point is that maybe it was Austin, who is a lot of people's personal hero and savior, who created a backstage monster in HHH. ####, not many people get on Austin for his political shit. How about Austin's refusal to work programs with Billy Gunn and Jeff Jarrett. It wouldn't have brought him down a peg and he wouldn't have lost any heat. I'll get flamed for that and I'm sure a lot of the responses will be that those 2 are hopeless to begin with. Despite all that, none of you will never know becaue Austin and Ross killed it before it could start. How about Austin and Ross pulling the play this last winter after survivor series and making Austin a face again with no real explanation? That just helped contribute to the nonsensical storylines. And remember that mini program with the 2 man power trip vs the Hardyz? HHH caught #### for him not putting over Jeff the second time they went at it. What about Austin's squash of Matt on Smackdown? If you go back and look, Austin didn't do Matt any favors either. But I guess in some of the jaded eyes, Matt didn't even belong in the ring with the rattlesnake.

 

Flame away guys!

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Very good point. Austin is terrific performer, but who has he really put over? Another factor for HHH was the Clique.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Austin didn't refuse to job to HHH.

 

At Summerslam 99 Foley was added because everyone was hurting...and got the win because the WWF didn't want Gov. Ventura to ref a match where a heel won.

 

Thus HHH got the belt the next night.

 

And at the first opportunity...Austin put HHH over at No Mercy (while injured)

 

And what happened when Austin came back from injury?

 

HHH was revealed as the mastermind, and HHH beat Austin again in the blowoff match at No Way Out 2001.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Austin has put over Angle (big time), Jericho (twice), HHH (twice), Taker (a few times), Booker T (hey...he won the feud)

 

And if someone wants to raise crap about not putting people over clean...no heels win clean.  Ever.  Austin jobbed clean by tapping out at Unforgiven 01.  When is the last time that Rock lost a clean match in a singles match?

 

I don't think you can blame Austin for not jobbing to Rock...because the eventual payoff win for Rock has to be something the WWF is buiilding too...possibly it was going to go at Mania this year...but the NWO and HHH returned.

[Guest converge241]

could be HHH's experience with the Warrior.

lil' tidbit in the Observer about HHH trying to throw some ideas in the WM12 match and Warrior blowing him off and telling him the way its gonna be: a squash.

If one was to look for a seed that far back.

 

((( no johnny storm here! )))

[Guest Dangerous A]

"Austin has put over Angle (big time), Jericho (twice), HHH (twice), Taker (a few times), Booker T (hey...he won the feud)"

 

I think you are getting put over and job mixed up. Angle was already a ME'er and it wasn't until his program with Rock that his ME status was solidified. Jericho was not over anymore after his mini program with Austin. HHH was not over til the Foley program. Taker was already a superstar and didn't need elevation. Booker is still not over despite working with Austin. Put over is when you have someone who is below you in the card and after the program is over that person now looks better. The people you listed, bps, were either already over and didn't need putting over or are still not over. When I said Austin did a Nash, I meant he did the job, but did not make his opponent look good or credible.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

While then who has HHH put over?

 

Anything that he did do for Jericho in the past...he just crushed.

 

Does he move back down to 0 too?

[Guest Dangerous A]

I agree that HHH has not put anyone over in close to 2 years. The last one being Jericho at fully loaded 2000. And yes, HHH has done a marvelous job at flushing that work down the toilet. The purpose to the post was that MAYBE things like Austin not wanting to put HHH over when the time called for it is the reason he is so paronoid about his spot. Also, good point converge241, I totally forgot about the Warrior thing. Things like that as well as hanging out with such great locker room paragons of virtue HBK, Hall and Nash will spoil your mind.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

But I already covered the whole Austin won't put over HHH thing in my first post.

 

It's not true.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Cactus Jack made Triple H.

 

As for being a political monster, I could care less because I'm not backstage or an employee.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Nobody here realizes how HHH put Kurt Angle over?

 

Say he's slow. Say he's a politician. Say he bangs the boss' daughter just to further his career. But HHH's limited arsenal looks more "real" than anyone else in the ME circle. Kurt comes in and after a few months of fighting with the likes of Tazz and Hardcore Holly, he enters a moderately long feud with HHH.

 

Although he's stuck as a Jobber To The Stars, Kurt also displays brawling skills that look like they connect more than most others. It's not like he's punching identically to HHH or anything, but it's not a longshot to guess Hunter was mentoring the guy quite a bit, even though there's people there with more years of experience to do it.

 

Kurt's real problem is somebody at the company doesn't see the guy as over even with all the You Suck chants. I'd guess JR, but he's out there every Monday night and would be aware of the crowd reaction. Maybe it's Vince? Or perhaps it's nobody and Kurt isn't bringing in the TV ratings. Either way, the guy is in the right place as the nimrod heel character and just needs to wait for whatever or whoever to get out of his way.

[Guest Human Fly]

Any wrestler given the chance would become a force backstage. HHH has a good mind for the business, was one of the WWFs top two performers during some tough times, and there you go.

[Guest Some Guy]

The last guy that HHH put over clean was Taker at Mania 17.

As far as who made him a political monster, look at who his friends are, The Kliq.  HBK and Nash are said to be 2 of the best at backstage politics. My theory is HHH learned how to kiss the booker's ass from them and then started banging the boss's daugter.  

 

Bps you said that "no heels win clean", which is true unless your name is Steve Austin, HHH, or Undertaker.  All 3 recieved many clean wins as heels.  HHH over everyone, Austin over Benoit, Jericho, and a few under carders (Spike and Tajiri), Taker over everyone from RVD to Flair since his latest turn and everyone else when he first came in to WWF.

[Guest Dangerous A]

"At Summerslam 99 Foley was added because everyone was hurting...and got the win because the WWF didn't want Gov. Ventura to ref a match where a heel won."

 

That's a crock of sh*t. The Gov. part. Foley coming in because Austin was legit hurt is right. But the WWF don't give a #### about who does the count. They could've overbooked it (since it was already) and had it to where Ventura didn't have to look bad. Austin just didn't want to lay down was all. I'll give Austin a little cred in putting Benoit over this last May at the Raw and SD in Canada. It was just unfortunate with the injury because they were going to run with Austin/Benoit at summerslam. I actually believed Benoit had a shot at a small run as champ. Jericho was not elevated at all by the 3 way feud last summer and didn't get his brush with the ME until his program with Rock. Jericho just doesn't have the fire to get behind to make him a credible ME FACE. As a heel, he is the shiznit. I hope they never turn him back.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

What proof can you offer that Austin didn't want to lay down...when he laid down for HHH 2 months later on ppv...while injured.

 

You honestly think that Ventura would have signed on to be booed in his homestate?

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

I'm with bps on the Ventura shenanigans.

If I recall correctly, Ventura was getting a lot of shit from the political community and mainstream media for making a return to WWF TV while serving office, and so would not sign up to anything remotely controversial which would only serve to bring more attention to his appearance.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

REgardless of the Ventura stuff..

 

How can anyone say that Austin won't put HHH over...when HHH is 2-0 in the last 3 years vs. Austin.

 

Including the first available opportunity following that Summerslam 3 way.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Actually...I guess HHH is 2-0-1.

 

Austin didn't even get to win the blowoff to the Austin gets run over angle at SS 00.

 

hmm...

 

It seems that HHH won't put Austin over.

 

Numbers don't lie.

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

Well, quite.

I was just backing up the point that Austin not jobbing then wasn't up to him.

Returning to the theme of the thread, maybe it was these dealings with Ventura that played a part in HHH becoming the political animal.

[Guest goodhelmet]

But Austin almost killed HHH when he dropped him from 40ft in the air while trapped in a car!!!!! *sly grin*

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

The answer to the "how did HHH become a political monster" is easy.

 

Chyna always talks about how HHH started sleeping with Stephanie because he was too into his character...so it stands to reason that the McMahon-Helmsly era got into HHH's blood and now he uses Steph (you know...the head writer...who he also happens to date) to do as he pleases.

[Guest Brian]

I think Austin has a pretty horrible political standing too, but as for Triple H, I think Michaels did more to create him than anyone else. The guy dodged blame for the MSG incident which probably made HHH pretty bitter, plus HHH had a first hand look at how he played the game, where he screwed up, and the end result.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I agree that Austin does too...

 

But Austin's dealings should be compared to Hogan and Flair (where he is practically clean by comparison) than it is to HHH...

 

because...quite frankly...Austin, Hogan and Flair have done an incredible amount more for the business and their respective companies than HHH.

 

Not that that makes it right...but it's a little different.

[Guest Dangerous A]

I'll give you that bps. However, other factors such as the Warrior incident at WM 12, hanging out with the kliq, Austin (amongst others) not putting over (not the same as jobbing), contributed to this "political" monster.

 

About the putting over. You don't necessarily have to win or lose to put someone over. I'll give you an example. In the Summer of 87, the NWA had the Great American Bash tour. Ric Flair, who was champ at the time, was scheduled to defend the title betweeen 16-18 times. His first defense was against Road Warrior Hawk. They did a mini build to that show on the old superstation saturday night show. There was a match with Ric and I believe Arn against the Road Warriors. Ric had everyone and their mom believe that Road Warrior Hawk was going to be the new NWA champ at the show. FREAKIN ROAD WARRIOR HAWK!!! He also did this for small ass Ricky Morton. Anyone who remembers that period will attest that they thought Ricky Morton was gonna do it.

 

I know I am using Ric Flair as an example and he was the absolute best at this. The point is as champ, regardless of wins or losses, you can still put someone over. IMO, Austin did not put HHH over in that period. ####, there is an argument that after WM X-7, HHH was more over after CLEANLY  jobbing to the Taker. Hogan is more over after jobbing last night. Rock was more over after jobbing to HHH at summerslam 98 in the ladder match. These men jobbed, but looked like a million bucks after the match because their opponents put them over. You remember that last man standing match at fully loaded. Jericho looked better even though he lost. That's because HHH put him over. I just wish he would remember what was done for him and do the same for some of these other guys.(I'm thinking midcard)

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Well...Austin got over by losing to HArt....which is the best example of it.

 

I'm not saying that Austin DID put him over...but I don't think that there is anything to suggest that he wouldn't.

 

I mean we all love Foley...but even in 99...I would think it would be more respectable to lose to the ultra hot up and coming HHH (who the WWF planned on riding for months) than Foley...and he put him over straight clean!

 

If Austin would put over Jericho for the undisputed title  (even in screwy fashion) he would have put over HHH (at least in screwy fashion)

[Guest Some Guy]

Austin didn't put HHH over in 99, Rock accidentally hit Austin with a sledgehammer leading to HHH's victory on a 2nd rate PPV, if I recall correctly.  Mick Foley put HHH over 3 fucking times clean as a god #### whistle and let HHH end his carreer, plus HHH married Steph in the storylines.  That's what made him a star, not Austin.  Foley did the same for Rock too, even though Rock was already massively over, Foley gave him that last shot into superstardom, IMO.

[Guest Dangerous A]

"I mean we all love Foley...but even in 99...I would think it would be more respectable to lose to the ultra hot up and coming HHH (who the WWF planned on riding for months) than Foley...and he put him over straight clean!"

 

 

Point taken. I just think that the factors I stated earlier are the reason for the  backstage shenanigans. It was also to raise an awareness to how it's not just HHH with the politics. It seems about the only person on top who hasn't gotten caught up with politics is Rock and Jericho. (although with wrestling's track record, that will change)

[Guest Some Guy]

DangerousA your right about Rock at least, I'm not sure Jericho will ever get to be at a level to play "the Game".  If Rock stays around long enough, he will eventually start to hear the pops fade and the ratings and buyrates go down and he'll see some young guy who is ready for the big time and he'll sqaush to stay on top.  He'll play politics eventually but right now I think he has so much confidence (and rightfully so) in his abilities that he doesn't need to.

[Guest goodhelmet]

But what distinguishes HHH from the others is the fact that he is F***ing the boss's daughter! Everyone is probably playing the backstage game, just some of them are more successful, but shouldn't HHH (or Steph) be taken task for the piss poor Mania performance, headlining no less?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I agree that Austin has some political problems...but...I don't know how to say it without it coming accross like he deserves too...

 

Here's why a lot of smarks (myself included) look the other way to easily...

 

Austin was one of the guys early in his career (the WCW era) that WE WANTED on top...but Hogan's political power prevented that in 94.

 

So when he does make it to the top...and does the same thing...I don't know...the phrase "turn about's fair play" comes to mind.

 

That doesn't make it right...that's just the way I see it.