Why was Saudi Arabia No Sold....

[Guest NoCalMike]

There was some noise made immediately following the attack about 9 or so of the terrorists being from Saudia Arabia, but then it kind of just went away, Why?

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Because Osama isn't headquartered in Saudi Arabia.

 

In fact, they stripped him of his citizenship and told him to get out quite a long time ago.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

The fact that most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia and Egypt rather than places like Afghanistan is not surprising because living in those countries they received better educations and had more afluent lifestyles, which made them better prepared to carry out that type of attack than some peasants or nomads from the desert.

[Guest EricMM]

Because, what are we going to do, regime change there? We can't, they're our friends. And by friends I mean oil trading partner. We had no problem getting rid of the Taliban, ditto Hussein. But the Saudis are another situation.

 

Honestly, what are we supposed to do? I guess all we can do is call the leadership to task about what goes on in their country, but what bargining chips do we have?

[Guest DrTom]

Yeah, they're our "friends." We'd better be careful when that "friend" goes to pat us on the back, because I guarantee there's a stiletto in that hand.

 

Arabia is a huge supporter of international terrorism, and was home to fifteen of the nineteen highjackers of September 11th. I've long since supported taking them out when we're finished with Iraq. Of course, all we have to do is withdraw our military and watch the Saud family collapse (read: get slaughtered), then deal with whomever fills the power vacuum.

[Guest JMA]

Yeah, they're our "friends." We'd better be careful when that "friend" goes to pat us on the back, because I guarantee there's a stiletto in that hand.

 

Arabia is a huge supporter of international terrorism, and was home to fifteen of the nineteen highjackers of September 11th. I've long since supported taking them out when we're finished with Iraq. Of course, all we have to do is withdraw our military and watch the Saud family collapse (read: get slaughtered), then deal with whomever fills the power vacuum.

Agreed. I'm tired of people who live in the past look down on America. They need to take responsibility for all the damn terrorists who come from their country.

[Guest Some Guy]

Yeah, they're our "friends."  We'd better be careful when that "friend" goes to pat us on the back, because I guarantee there's a stiletto in that hand.

 

Arabia is a huge supporter of international terrorism, and was home to fifteen of the nineteen highjackers of September 11th.  I've long since supported taking them out when we're finished with Iraq.  Of course, all we have to do is withdraw our military and watch the Saud family collapse (read: get slaughtered), then deal with whomever fills the power vacuum.

Agreed. I'm tired of people who live in the past look down on America. They need to take responsibility for all the damn terrorists who come from their country.

I'm also tired of people who live in the past looking down on America. The French, Germans, the entire Middle East (some of which still thinks the Crusades are still happening), and teh lion's share of the anti-war people who just can't leave those fun sex, drugs, and rock and roll 60s behind.

 

The Saudis should be regularly felating America and they still spit at us. I think we should quietly pull our troops out (that's what teh terroists want, right?) and see how long the current dictators stays in power. Then swoop in and clean up the mess.

[Guest JMA]

I'm also tired of people who live in the past looking down on America. The French, Germans, the entire Middle East (some of which still thinks the Crusades are still happening), and teh lion's share of the anti-war people who just can't leave those fun sex, drugs, and rock and roll 60s behind.

 

The Saudis should be regularly felating America and they still spit at us. I think we should quietly pull our troops out (that's what teh terroists want, right?) and see how long the current dictators stays in power. Then swoop in and clean up the mess.

I wouldn't compare Germany and France to places like Saudi Arabia. That's a little too extreme. Saudi Arabia is still run by a royal family and the people have little, if any, freedom.

[Guest Some Guy]

I was saying that France adn Germany are living in the past and looking down on America. France and Germany are still living in a time when theya re relevant and world powers, they are currently neither and haven't been for about 60 years and even more for France.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

The crusades ARE still going on, SG.

 

We're starting a new one currently.

[Guest JMA]

The crusades ARE still going on, SG.

 

We're starting a new one currently.

Sad, but true.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Uhm. Guys? All those oil barons we buy oil from buy a bunch of miscellaneous exports from us when they furnish their 324995th home. Well, they did. Wouldn't be suprised if they buy less now.

 

The thing is, while dropping bombs will work on a few sources of terrorism, mainly the governments that are getting too big for their britches (ala Saddam), you cannot "win" the war on terror. I've said this since day one.

 

As long as their is independant and unshared thought, there will be some guy with a homemade explosive, a detonator, and a wish to try and start a revolution.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Which is why this will turn into a holy war.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well since terrorism boils all the way down, to a thought and/or an idea(L), it is kind of hard to go to war with that since anyone can think anything they want at any given time. The upcoming war with Iraq though, as little to do with "terrorism" or liberating the Iraqi people, just my opinion of course.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Of course not, but it's easy to spin it that way, and the rest of the Middle East probably will.

 

Bush saying "God is on our side" every twenty minutes doesn't help, either.

[Guest DrTom]

Which is why this will turn into a holy war.

Let it.

 

A billion people doesn't take that many bombs.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

I don't know how they're the only ones looking to the past still when we regularly insult the Germans as warmongers and the French as chronic surrenderers.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

So the solution is bombing every Muslim?

 

How does that make us any better than them?

[Guest DrTom]

So the solution is bombing every Muslim?

No, the solution is to take care of those countries that are a threat to us, and destroy terrorist cells and organizations when we discover them.

 

I was mostly kidding about the bombs.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

The problem is that Islam isn't a country, it's a religion. When we, more or less, attack a religion and an ideology, the less extreme members are likely to become more extreme due to oppression.

 

This isn't gonna end here, and I sincerely doubt we will ever wipe out all the terrorist cells. If we get rid of al Queda, someone else will rise in their place.

 

My worry is that turning this into a holy war, as it seems to be becoming, will make this into a pot we don't want to stir.

[Guest SP-1]

It's already a Holy War as far as they are concerned. It has been since before 9/11 and it will continue to be as long as they operate. It has no room to "turn into a Holy War" because, simply, it's been one for a very long time.

 

Bush's comments are no different than past Administrations saying, "May god be with us," during times of conflict or war. Bush happens to be a Christian, so he talks about it more often. He's not intending to go over there, wipe out governments and leave a Church in the middle. He's going, taking care of a percieved threat to the US and her people, probably helping set up a democratic government, and then leaving.

 

The Holy War aspects were declared by the opposition long ago. We have nothing to do with that.

[Guest NoCalMike]

So, are we in a sense giving into to the terrorists way of thinking by returning the mutual feeling of a "holy war" ?? Bush is not just saying, "may god be with us" He is pretty clearly stating that God is on OUR side. So I am not sure how God would feel about being on EITHER side in the event of innocent civilians being killed by bombs.

[Guest SP-1]

So, are we in a sense giving into to the terrorists way of thinking by returning the mutual feeling of a "holy war" ?? Bush is not just saying, "may god be with us" He is pretty clearly stating that God is on OUR side. So I am not sure how God would feel about being on EITHER side in the event of innocent civilians being killed by bombs.

Personally, I don't really see God on a "side" in this one. I see it as overall events unfolding according to a larger plan.

 

But, I still don't see how Bush's comments can be equated with people using God as their whole excuse for bombing things and causing terror. Bush is still using it as a source for strength and comfort. He's not saying. "Jesus told me to go wipe the floor with Saddam Hussein." Unless I'm massively mistaken, most of the radical Middle Eastern terrorist factions operate on a base agenda of, "Allah rules and hates the Western Devils, let's blow them the fuck up."

 

There's quite a difference between the two things. Bush has always placed political and security measures first and relied on his faith as a source of strength second. No more, no less from where I sit.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Regardless, saying "God is on our side" is basically asking to incite a broader holy war. When their passions are already enflamed by whatever they were, harping on RELIGION of all things is utterly stupid.

 

As a sensible Christian, even I must frown on his stupidity in that regard. The other administrations who have quoted God never did so AGAINST RELIGIOUS WACKOS.

[Guest SP-1]

Regardless, saying "God is on our side" is basically asking to incite a broader holy war. When their passions are already enflamed by whatever they were, harping on RELIGION of all things is utterly stupid.

 

As a sensible Christian, even I must frown on his stupidity in that regard. The other administrations who have quoted God never did so AGAINST RELIGIOUS WACKOS.

I'll give you that. Regardless of his motives, it may not be the best time to do it.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Can someone tell me. When they say the Saudi gov't has helped terrorist. Do they mean the actual Crown Prince the one who is in charge, or is it lower level officials.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

No one knows, if I'm not mistaken. Their rulers are tyrants, and I doubt they would give information that would corroborate such an allegation, especially with their cushy spot as our allies.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Can someone tell me. When they say the Saudi gov't has helped terrorist. Do they mean the actual Crown Prince the one who is in charge, or is it lower level officials.

As far as I know it works on a few levels. The gutless Saudi rulers fear an all-out fundamentalist rebellion, so they give them money and allow hate and terrorism to prosper in their country to keep them pacified to a certain degree. The bored nasty rich kids in Saudi Arabia find terrorism to be a fun idea and a way to hit back at the "evil globalising US" despite the fact that all their families get rich off American money. And at the top of it all you have the gutless Bush government unwilling to take any real risks in the war on terror or indeed go after the source of the terrorism, instead preferring to bomb Country With Sticks as Ammo and Country Whose Army Was Destroyed 12 Years ago in a transparent attempt to fabricate resolve in the most convenient possible manner.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

I stand corrected.

[Guest DrTom]

And at the top of it all you have the gutless Bush government unwilling to take any real risks in the war on terror or indeed go after the source of the terrorism...

I'll ignore the rest of your screed because it simply doesn't deserve a response. Regarding this: over 1/3 of the leadership of Al'Qaeda is either dead or captured, Usama bin Laden is either dead or on the run from people who will see him dead in short order, numerous terrorist training facilities have been destroyed, sleeper cells in America and other countries have been eliminated, etc. What else would you like to see done? A war on terrorism isn't going to be a quick military victory. It's something we have to be in for the long haul, which means we have to be willing to accept little victories en route to the big one.