Smarks double-standard

[Guest goodhelmet]

ok, because of the NWO, everything you have been building up for months is thrown out the window. If Booker T or Jericho or RVD or Edge or Rock or Taker or Angle or any other current (non NWO) superstar was in the ring with Austin, this would not have been a topic. As a matter of principle, why should Austin have to work with these guys? Trips returns from an injury, can't perform in the ring, yet he gets a world title shot? Bullshit!

Hall was such a crap shoot that the WWF didn't schedule a Kevin Nash match because of Hall's unstable reputation. Why should Austin be content? Prior to the NWO, the Mania main was either HHH-Austin or Rock-Austin which would have received the same buyrates, the same sold out stadium and a big payoff to boot i.e. Austin finally gets over on Trips or loses cleanly to Rock. Either was feasible and would attract as much attention.

Ok, the NWO comes in and changes things. Austin doesn't trust these guys and certainly knows they can't hang with him in the ring, but every match he is involved in since NoWAyOut has an NWo interference. Whoopddee-fucking-do! No main event for Austin, no big payoffs, no appreciation from management, but we get a Rock-Hogan match with huge heat but little substance (great moment) and a world title MAIN EVENT with no heat and no satisfying payoff (steph is still on the screen dammit).

So I don't blame Trips or Hogan for backstage games or whatever but I certainly do not blame Austin for being disturbed at having to work with a drunk who (deserving or not) is a longterm midcarder. All of the work, great matches, and carrying the WWf on his back is for nothing! Austin has a right to be pissed.

[Guest Some Guy]

"All of the work carrying the WWF on his back for nothing!"

 

Bullshit, how much money did he make in the last 5 years?  Millions upon millions.  How much did he make for working with Hall, probably the same as he would have made in the ME.  He carried the WWF on his back and was paid very well for it, they ask him to do 1 thing he doesn't like and he not only refuses but attempts to sabatage the nWo angle by be lazy and selfish.  He is seems to be turning into what he used to bitch about in ECW.

[Guest goodhelmet]

That one thing was laying down for someone who did not deserve to be in that position! I have no doubt that he would have laid down for the Rock or Jericho or even Booker friggin T! The fact that he was wrestling a big ? makes all the difference in the world. OK, Austin lays down to Hall (still unproven) who fucks up and is gone in a month. How does that make Austin (multiple world champ) look?

 

Y'know, this is one time I agree with Hulk Hogan. He should not have laid down for Kidman or Jeff jarrett because both of them were unproven. Hall is unproven.

[Guest Some Guy]

I agree about Hogan not laying down for Kidman, but Jarrett he probably should have.  If Austin loses a screwjob match to Hall and then Hall craps out, Austin has lost no credibilty at all.  Rock lost to Steph in a screwjob, I don't recall his carreer ending.

[Guest goodhelmet]

Rock should have never lost to Stephanie!!!!! Just like Steph should not be in a world title match!!!! hat's my point about Hall. If Hall was here for 6 months, gathered fan interest, proved himself and Austin acted this way, even with a screwjob ending, then Fuck Him BUT Hall was an unproven commodity.

[Guest Some Guy]

There wasn't 6 months to work with in this case.  They only had 2 and in 2 months outside of his 1st day Hall has been good back stage and on camera.  If I were Austin I would have been pissed at the Rock for making Hall look weak on Smackdown.  If Rock sells huge for Hall, 1/2 of what he gave Hogan them Hall is a believable threat to Austin at Mania.  However it was a paint-by-numbers Rock TV match and Hall looked like just another heel.

 

Austin can't possibly be mad about how Hall sold for him though, he jump 4 feet in the air and took a good bump off the Stunner.

[Guest goodhelmet]

And in that 2 months time they should have been building toward a Stone Cold-Trips blowoff or Stone Cold-Rock blowoff and let the dinosaurs wrestle some upper midcarders like Kane and Taker or whoever!

 

I agee Rock made Hall look worthless. So in that case why would Austin job to someone Rock disposed of with ease?

[Guest goodhelmet]

Another point. Don't get me wrong. I blame Austin for that travesty of a match at Mania just as much as I do Hall. My main beef is I believe Austin should never have been put in that position.

[Guest godthedog]

i suppose that since i've been sucking ausin's dick on this board for the past few weeks, i should put my 2 cents into this.

 

i think this should all be treated hypothetically, because none of us really knows what's going on backstage, why he isn't on tv this week, or what he's thinking.  in general, i think that most post-HBK conspiracy theories in the wwf don't hold much water (even the HHH one, i posted a long reply on the old board about why i think it isn't true).  anybody remember the night after judgment day, when undertaker didn't show up & there was a rumor that he was being bitchy about not being the main focus anymore?  and then it turned out that he just wanted some time off to rest?

 

how exactly has austin been half-assing it?  is it because his promos haven't been as good as they were last year?  since the nWo came, austin honestly hasn't been getting a lot of promo time, which means he hasn't really gotten the chance to shine like he did last year (when he was the focus of almost every show).  in the one show i can think of where he WAS the focus (when he kidnapped scott hall), i thought the concept was stupid & he made it as entertaining as he could.  he can't cut the promo of his career every night, especially with the shit he's been given lately.  

is it because his matches haven't been as good?  he's working with scott hall who, although he's the hardest-working nWo member, is forty and still extremely rusty.  although the WM match didn't set the world on fire, it didn't actively suck, unlike hogan/rock.  yes, austin's match was the better technical match of the two.  only the crowd heat & historical value made hogan/rock the more memorable match.  austin & hall didn't blow 3 spots in their big wrestlemania match.  btw, the match was also a lot more watchable than the abomination last year known as judgment day.

is it because he's been successfully fighting off the old nWo?  it's part of his fucking character!  remember when he turned face during the invasion storyline and single-handedly beat the crap out of about 10 people in the ring?  in terms of wwf storylines, austin is basically superman.  it's been this way for a while, & it's not just this way now because he doesn't like the nWo.

 

IF austin really is taking time off because he's not happy with his position, then he is indeed being a jackass.  i don't care what excuses about past wrongs anybody comes up with.  however, none of us is in a position to judge him for taking time off, because none of us knows WHY he is taking time off.

[Guest Some Guy]

I think Austin is more at fault than Hall.  As has been said many times Austin hasn't even tried lately and Hall has given his best (whether that's good or bad is subjective).  Why Hall was treated like that in the Rock macth is beyond me, they already "humbled" or whatever they call public humiliation in WWF world, him his 3rd day in.

 

nWo shouldn't have come in until after Mania IMO, but they came in Feb. and we got one of the coolest crowd reactions I've ever witnessed in 13 years of watching wrestling.  Austin should have just doen his job, he would have gotten a win over Hall at Backlash clean as whistle and called it a day.  By the time Mania ame it seemed and seems pretty clear taht Hall has gotten his shit together and will be around for a while.  I am happy about this.  Maybe sooner or later Vince will become convinced of that and maek some money of of him.

[Guest Some Guy]

Another thing that has been irritating me about Austin is that he (through no fault of his own) can't take teh nWo guys finishers like the Rock did.  The nWo beatdowns and the Taker beatdown of AA were ultra lame, all punches and kicks, AA bladed off of a stupid punch twice.  Austin's neck problems are the reason, but why does Angle, Tazz, and a few other who have had broken necks have to take those moves and not him?  You know Benoit will when he comes back adn so will Rhyno.  hwo is the Razor's Edge any different from Austin delivering a superplex?  Hall culd even set him on the top or pull him off the 2nd rope when he is posing to prevent the risk of dropping him on the way up.  Or Nash could 'spot" Austin like he did fo the Rock on the Raw after NWO.

[Guest goodhelmet]

I don't know if you remember a thread I created a few weeks back, but it asked. "If you could fire one wrestler and elevate a wrestler to carry the ball, what would you do?"

I basically stated I would fire Austin to send a message to the WWF locker room and for his questioning of Vince. (I would elevate Benoit, but that's another topic)

I state this because I understand Austin can be difficult to work with but when he is motivated, he puts on great matches (often MOTYC) and can carry a crowd like no other. If you are going to keep Austin around, then he should have been given a better program than Scott Hall.

Hall could have easily been inserted into a match against Edge, DDP, Kane or whatever midcard babyface and kept the NWO burning while Hogan does the J-O-B to Rock. Hall-Austin was a bad idea from the beginning and seems more like a RAW matchup then a Mania match. It's just wrong.

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

yeah, austin should cop some sh!t (what the fuck is with this swearing thing??) for this crap.  he isnt bigger than the company, and this little stunt has shown a total lack of maturity and poor leadership.  he is a "locker-room leader" for chrissake, he is sending the *totally* wrong message.  and while he shouldnt be fired, or jobbed out on tv (that would be suicide for wwf), he should do some serious jobbing on house shows.  no man is bigger than the promotion, and austins stunt has required a major angle to be totally reworked.  now thats just pathetic, and its about time vince started standing up to these wrestlers before they take *total* control over him.

[Guest Some Guy]

I agree that the build up should have been better but I disagree about Hall's value.  He is over and would be more so if he used more of his catch phrases a in promos and was given a a win or 2 over guys like Edge or Christian on TV, Spike didn't help him credibility.  In one of his promos I was waiting for him to say and he set him self up to say, "Austin, at Wrestlemania I'm gonna carve you up."  This would have been better than "I'm gonna take you down and out" IMO

[Guest goodhelmet]

"now thats just pathetic, and its about time vince started standing up to these wrestlers before they take *total* control over him."

 

hehehehe. man, I'm anti-capitalist so I'm all for the wrestlers revolting against Vince. Viva Revolution!!! (just without Shane Douglas)

 

Hey, Hall might have some value left but not as much as you are giving him credit for. And yes, Spike Dudley does not help Hall's cause. But if no other WWF stars (Spike is not a star) have to job to Hall, why should Austin be the first?

[Guest imajackoff?]

I think another reason that Austin doesnt get  the venom that others have when they do similar things is that it appears from the outside that he is only trying to protect HIMSELF instead of using whatever backstage political power he has to help his buddies and the like.  With that said, he still isnt right in doing some of the things he's done.

[Guest imajackoff?]

When someone's performing well, people care less about their backstage stuff. People who perform below standards are the one who get crucified.

Not so true. Shawn Micheals was often criticized for acting like a jackass backstage during a time when he was argueably the best performer in North America.

[Guest muzanisa]

Who's read Hooker?

 

There were a lot of people Lou wouldn't put over and he protected his spot. When you get there you do it and that seems to be the case since the beginning. I wonder if the net had been around in the eighties if Brody would have had the bad name HHH has now (Technically the net was around in the eighties but you know what I mean).

By all accounts Austin has been very protective of his character and considering his place in the business probably uses backstage clout to influence storylines. When his pain in the arse factor outweighs his usefulness to Vince factor then it will be bye bye Austin.

[Guest converge241]

Posted: Mar. 19 2002,15:12    

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe Bps's idea is coming true.

He put up a link in a post awhile ago about sending Austin home to send a message....

 

kind of half kidding about that, but it was pointed out that Austin has caused his share of problems such as whats being reported (vetos, tantrums, etc). Hall, Nash , and Hogan usually get verbal beatings becuase of same type of stuff.

 

If it's true, it would be kind of sad that Austin would get so upset about the whole thing. I mean I'm not in his shoes, and maybe he just really cares about his career or the business, but how can he expect to be in the main event all the time?"

 

thats from another thread yesterday and ,blockhead that i am, i forgot it was good helmet who put that post up, but i knew some smark faithfull had touched based on the subject. Austin has been taken to task, and the debate rages

[Guest mastermind]

I usually agree with most, but this topic I don't know man. People are saying that Austin doesn't deserve to job to Hall and could be justified. In this instance he is justified, but if it was Booker T or someone else it would be different. Why?

These guys don't have the casual fan appeal that Hall does. I also feel that the nWo have been TOLD to not do their catchphrases because it will pop the audience and they wouldn't be true heels. The nWo angle is just as big as Austin's influence on the business with the attitude and whatnot. Sure Austin is protecting himself, but this isn't exactly Billy Gunn we're dealing with here. It's the angle that almost caused the wwf to go out of business.

 

Some are saying that in the 80's it happened all the time and so on. Well, it's not the 80's and people like Mr. Perfect probably would have been world champion when it was obvious he was drawing main event heel heat when Warrior was flopping as champion. However, to protect themselves a continuation of a flop Warrior reign ensued killing business for the next year and WrestleMania. Austin has defeated the nWo now what? Go back and defeat the guys he beat last year in Booker T and Benoit?  Why Austin should be the first to job to Hall? Because in the wwf world Vince brought them in to destroy and poison the wwf. You do this by taking out the two top fan favourites killing fan interest which was a storyline. I mean don't people always say the wwf just drops angles or doesn't have continuity? The only thing I will defend Austin with on this situation is IF this stuff isn't even true and we're attacking him for no reason.

 

Take it like this. Shawn Michaels is the perfect example. He carried the wwf in 1996 and saw jobbing to Bret as an insult(he stays off and plays both wwf and wcw and returns to get his "job" back), so he fakes a knee injury and lost his smile. Didn't THAT hurt the wwf big time for WM 13? Sure, the Austin/Hart match came about, but that match could have easily happened at SummerSlam for the wwf championship instead of Austin breaking his neck against Owen (RIP). Of course I'm going on hypotheticals, but I'm trying to illustrate that just because you are trying to protect yourself sometimes you are hurting business. I'm just saying just because it's Austin and he did carry the wwf doesn't mean he needs to screw up angles of this magnitude. Jobbing to Gunn and Jarrett is different than this because that wouldn't lead to a historical "split" of the wwf. This situation is much different.

 

The Rock in 1999 as wwf world champion getting heat. He drops two matches to Austin then turns face. He starts to have programs with people like Billy Freaking Gunn at the second biggest show of the year, while Austin refuses to lose to Triple H in the main. Rock getting face heat comparing to Austin loses matches to people like Boss Man. He gets to main event Mania for his work in 1999 and he JOBS. Do we see him complaining? He did practically the same thing in 2000 and he JOBS again in the main event of Mania. Sometimes that's just how the thing has to go. I know Austin is suppose to be superman and the baddest sob, but I don't think fans thought he didn't have that with his match with Bret in 1997. He isn't really booked like Hulk Hogan or Ultimate Warrior or Goldberg. I'm not even hating on Austin I just find the hypocrisy unbelievable about this situation. I guess Hogan should have power played and not job to Rock because he was the main attraction and reason for Mania in the first place. He jobbed because the storyline called for it.