Good article at 411

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Meh, just another bitter anti-internet column like someone else already mentioned.

 

Oh wait... does that make me a follower now????

 

[Guest bob_barron]

Was it Ken or Jay who said X-8 was better then X-7.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I think it was Jay.

[Guest notJames]

And so we continue to perpetuate this cycle of loathing and cynicism. We hate it, he hates us for hating it, we hate him for hating us for hating it, etc. ad nauseum.

 

Maybe he should heed his own whiny (and error-laden) advice and stop reading how we bitch about everything.

[Guest Steviekick]

The problem isn't the synical nature of the internet wrestling fan. The WWE just hasn't put out a lotof programming that was legitimately entertaining. If Raw seemed to be done in a way that was more entertaining, smarks would be happy. Hell, if they bothered to do something with guys like Booker or RVD, Marks would be happy as well. The WWE is just missing the boat too much lately.

 

I did agree with him that sometimes we should be slightly less critical with the programming. He did kind of piss me off with his omments about complaints on 411s layout. Anyone who knows a damn about graphic design knows its horrible. If you bother to complain, that means that you care enough about the site to hope that it would be done better.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The flaw in his argument that it's '"us" and not the WWE', is that we are positive about other things. Meltzer has said in the past that Pride and UFC ppvs usually get an avg of like 90% positive reviews - and even most WWE ppvs get positive responses.

-------

 

I wrote this in another forums a few weeks ago and I figure there are enough smark-related threads on the board...so here ya go...

Not since the advent of television has a device impacted wrestling more. It is either embraced or shunned by wrestlers and promoters and there is no middle ground. You either love it, or hate it. Use it, or ignore it. Some call it the evolution of wrestling, some call it the destruction, but there is no disputing that it is here and it is here to stay. It is just as common a discussion on these boards as “Which is the Best Match”, “Who is the Best Wrestler”, and “What’s the Best Promo”, because the topic at hand is the medium itself.

 

The Question I pose is, “What does the Internet mean to you?”

 

It means a lot to me. Not because it offers a high selection of Porn, or Free Music, or ways to create a Pipe Bomb (*cackles* I‘ll get you good Dan Rather), but because it gives me a way to interact with other Wrestling Fans - something I cannot do outside the digital walls of the World Wide Web. The Wrestling Fan is generally seen as being an ill-educated, white-trash simpleton. We are alienated by society because of a false perception which, even though we number in the millions, makes us outcasts. At least, that’s how it has been for me.

 

I never talk about wrestling in public - not even with other wrestling fans. Either I talk about it and look like moron for liking wrestling, or I discuss it too much and look like a nerd for knowing HHH’s real name. It’s a no-win situation, so I just don’t play. Being a closet wrestling fan was never that enjoyable, but that’s how it is, or at least, that’s how it was for me. It got to the point to where I nearly just stopped caring and was about to turn off RAW and NITRO for good. Then I went on the Internet.

 

It was early 2000 and I was over at a buddies house. I never used the internet that much before, I didn’t really have a use for it, so when he decided to load up a Yahoo chat it was like I was entering a whole new world. This is 2000, and yes I am that old school. That started my interest in the internet. When I got home that day I went on-line to check out the scene. I found that I had little use for ‘peeps lounge’ so I decided to move on to greener pastures... That is to say, I went to the wrestling chat. And this was no ordinary wrestling chat -at the time, this wrestling chat actually featured people who, you know, wanted to talk about wrestling! OH JOY! They were ‘smarter’ than your average wrestling fan which was an absolute delight, and from them I got websites, message boards and the like. All where I could find out information about one of my favourite things in the world. So began my foray into wrestling Smarkdom.

 

And there’s the dirty word. “Smark”.

 

Smart Mark? What is a Smart Mark? A Mark with a high IQ? - Brian Pillman, ECW.

 

To understand why most wrestlers and promoters hate Smarks, or Smart Marks, you must understand the origin of the Mark/Promoter/Wrestler dynamic.

 

In Wrestling’s ‘early years’ it was mainly a Carnival Attraction where Promoters would bring in Wrestlers (who generally were highly skilled amateurs known as ‘Hookers’ or ‘Shooters’) and would challenge anyone in the crowd to see if they could last 5 minutes in the ring. These people were known as ‘Marks’. They were tricked, conned, and targeted for their money. That’s how it was for a long time and that’s how it is today - we, the marks, pay to see two (or more) wrestlers fight each other in a match. We are ‘tricked’ into believing it is real. Of course, we know that it is ’scripted’ but for a while - and up until the last 20 years or so - promoters and wrestlers alike tried to keep ‘kayfabe’ alive and said straight-out that wrestling was in fact ‘real’. Which is partially the reason why Wrestling is mocked as it is today.

 

Most of us already know the history of pro wrestling, but it is important to know how Wrestlers and Promoters see the fans. They don’t see us as people, they don’t see us as consumers, they don’t even see us as admirers or fans- they see us as marks. They see us as the ones to con. They see us as the ones to be tricked. Which means, the less we know - the easier it is for them to con us, to trick us, to work us - the easier it is for them to get our money. That’s the mentality that has been engrained in every wrestler since those early carnival days and very little has changed. They work us, we give them money. All was good in the wrestling world. However, something DID change. Along came the Internet - along came forums like Rec-Sport Pro Wrestling where wrestling fans would come together and share information. The internet gives us knowledge, it gives us power, it puts us near, or on the level of the wrestlers and promoters. We talk their talk, we know what goes on behind the curtain, we discuss the history of the business, we discuss the good side and the bad side of each promotion and wrestler, we are not blind any more and they hate us for it.

 

The WWE is the classic example of the anti-internet promotion. Every business now-a-days has a website and urges their customers to use it. It is a great promotional device which allows consumers and producers to come in contact with each other. It allows the producers to advertise, it allows for consumer feedback, it allows for updates and added information - all of which creates a closer relationship between buyer and seller, allows for changes in the product, and generally helps everyone involved. The WWE sees the internet as an inconvenience. And that is why they are falling behind the times.

 

Have you been to their chat room? It’s a mess. Have you been to their message board? Oh wait, they don’t have one. Have you gotten a lot of feedback when you sent in an email? Bet you haven’t. Do you think that anyone at Titan even cares what you think? You don’t? Well, you’re right, they don’t. Imagine what setting up a message board would do? Imagine what having wrestlers actually post on the Message board would do? I would like that. You would like that. Every wrestling fan would like that. So why don’t they do that? Because they don’t like you. They don’t like the internet fan. They don’t like the internet. You can read it in their ‘columns’, you can hear it on their internet radio show; they hate Smarks - they hate their own fan. They don’t hate us because we are ‘too negative’ or ‘overly critical’ they hate us because we merely THINK about their product. And since their product sucks, our thoughts reflect it. So rather than change the product, rather than improve it, they either ignore their fans and dismiss them as being ‘bitter for the sake of it’ or ‘arm-chair bookers who don’t know anything’. And that ignorance is what leads Smarks to bash the WWE even more.

 

But what’s almost worse; we hate each other for it.

 

Too many times do I find myself having to explain why I complain. Too many times do I have to defend the internet and being a Smark. Too many times do people come on and bash the very thing they use.

 

I don’t get the Anti-Smarks. They are fans, we are fans. “Why do you watch?” Easy, because I care. If I didn’t care I wouldn’t be writing about it right now. If I didn’t care I wouldn’t bother complaining in the first place. I care. The internet has made me care a whole lot more than the WWF or WCW made me care when I was watching them for the decade before I got on-line. I am critical because I know they can do a lot better. I am an ACTIVE viewer, I am an ACTIVE fan. I like to get involved with the things I like. Whether that is writing about it or doing it. That is the natural evolution of a fan. You like, you learn, you do. I like to like wrestling - I think it is an vastly under-appreciated art form, business, AND sport. I try to watch as much wrestling as possible, I like all styles (despite popular opinion) and I tend to enjoy most Raws and Smackdowns. You won’t find anyone cheering louder than me at Live Events.

 

I like to like wrestling, and I like to learn about wrestling. I am a mark for the smart of wrestling - I am a Smark. If you want to learn more about wrestling beyond what you see, then you are a Smark - plain and simple. To be a Smark, you don’t have to be bitter, but you do have to be a lil cynical because in wrestling, just like in life, there is more than meets the eye.

 

I like to like wrestling, I like to learn about wrestling, but I probably won’t be a wrestler. It’s a tough life and I don’t think I could take it. With that said, there is a whole generation of wrestlers sprouting up having first been internet wrestling fans. This is a GOOD THING. The internet allows for wrestlers to get exposure, and a lot of careers are made because of internet hype and word-of-mouth. Tapes are traded all over the world with help from the internet and more and more wrestlers are getting to see the variety of styles that wrestling has to offer as well as they are able to showcase theirs. A large amount of the people who go to Independent shows are amongst the internet-faithful. It could be argued that the internet is the only reason the Indy scene is alive today.

 

The internet is a powerful tool that can help wrestling thrive by bringing wrestling fans TOGETHER. Where as before we were alienated and isolated, now we can gather and discuss what we love without society looking at us and saying “why do you watch that crap?” Each internet connection builds a bridge for each wrestling fan so he/she can learn more about their passion. Knowledge IS Power, and the information superhighway has been the best thing to happen to wrestling since Television. Whether or not wrestling will embrace it like it did with Television is not a question of ‘if’ but ‘when’. Hopefully it will be soon, because the Wrestling Industry right now is on thin-ice, just about to reach it’s breaking point...

[Guest the pinjockey]

I just hate what the net has become sometimes. I hate how the net takes matches like Hogan/Warrior, Hogan/Andre, and Hogan/Rock, matches that I hold very closely to my heart, and pisses all over them, citing them as trash simply because Andre didn't pull out a Dragon Suplex. Give me a break. If you can't enjoy those three matches for what they are, than you're not a fan. You're a fucking bitter old man.

I know this is a little petty thing to get pissed over but this paragraph just irritates me. The "IWC" as far as I have ever seen has never crapped on these matches as far as acknowledgement and historical perspective. To need to use exaggerations like "matches that I hold very closely to my heart, and pisses all over them" to get your point across is just wrong.

 

Hogan/Warrior - typically considered a miraculously good match for the participants and a historically important match.

 

Hogan/Andre - Show me anyone who does not consider this to be the most historic match ever (in NA because I am not up on puro history)

 

Hogan/Rock - Many people love this match and the people who don't will give the atmosphere credit.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

RRR, that was beautiful, man.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I don't like Rock/Hogan, but I have no problems with the other too. Hogan/Andre isn't very good, but it is the biggest match ever and it was a different era. Hogan/Warrior was a great dramatic match. I didn't like it quite as much as Hogan/Savage from V, but it was still very good.

[Guest Steviekick]

Ravishing Rick Rudo...that was amazing.

[Guest JMA]

Ravishing Rick Rudo...that was amazing.

I agree. What you just wrote deserves to go on the 411 website.

[Guest godthedog]

funny how all the "you pissers and moaners just shut up cause you all sound the same" essays i read are just a lot of pissing and moaning & tend to sound the same. i'll like whatever the fuck i want to like, and i'll piss all over hogan/warrior, hogan/andre and hogan/rock all i want. because i don't like those matches. who is this little dipshit to say that if i don't love those 3 matches i'm not a true wrestling fan? who is he to dictate my personal taste? this is the same ignorant mentality that makes people say stupid crap like "oh my god, you don't like 'star wars'? do you like movies at all?" no, i don't like 'star wars', because the dialogue is horrible. and i don't like hogan/andre, because it's slow-moving and sloppy. don't trash the IWC for its homogeneity, & then turn around to endorse another kind of homogeneity. it's self-defeating.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Ravishing Rick Rudo...that was amazing.

I agree. What you just wrote deserves to go on the 411 website.

Yikes... that's a fate worse than death, man.

 

::: disses 411mania's shitty layout again :::

[Guest Will Scarlet]

I can see his point about Wrestlemania. Everyone remembers Hogan slamming Andre not JYD vs. Harley Race or that everyone remembers Hogan-Rock and not that rest of the terrible card. I am sure this Wrestlemania is going to have some unforgettable moments, but it's not like it's going to improve the product any.

 

I never understand these anti-smark articles. Yeah. I can see why smarks rub people the wrong way, but it seems silly to bitch about smarks. They are the critics of wrestling. They are the kind of guys who can point out the flaws in the company before the flaws become major problems which end up sinking it. And, really, is it a bad thing to want good, entertaining storylines? I never understand that brand of logic.

 

I feel bad for the WWE. They are victim of human nature. They were struggling a bit in ratings and buyrates, so they pushed what worked before even harder, not knowing that what worked before was one of the reasons fans were getting bored. Now, they have to right the ship, while pissing away several big things to just pop the buyrate of one PPV and gain back some of the fan interest. It's sad, really.

 

I would honestly stop being so critical if the WWE would prove me wrong. If I look at something, and think the WWE is going to drop the ball, and they do it, then I was right. It's frustrating that they dropped the ball over and over and over and OVER again. I may be cynical, but I love the WWE, and want it to survive for decades longer. 5 years from now, I don't want to see the WWE going out of business. Excuse me for caring. Perhaps I should go 'Wow! This sucks, but, hey, the WWE was GREAT in 1999!" as I sit through a bunch of crap every week." or just stop watching altogether. I have watched for too long to just give up now.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

RRR, that's a really nice speach but the big sources of Smarkdom (thinking of Meltzer here specifically) have been around for quite a long time.

 

The general negative view is rather new.

[Guest El Satanico]

I never understood the concept of "be a kid when you watch it and enjoy it just like you did back then". We aren't kids anymore and we see the product differently now so why should we be expected to dumb ourselves down and like what we would've liked as a kid. Many of us loved Doink as a kid so that means we should be expected to dumb ourselves down and love a wrestling clown when we've long outgrown such rubbish? It would make no sense to do such things and I don't get why some expect us to.

 

To use this in another context. This would be like someone telling us that we're all expected to love every movie ever released and that not doing this makes you a "bitter" person. It would just be insane to tell people that they need to watch all movies with the mind of a child. So why do some "anti-smark" columnists feel the need to tell us to do the same with wrestling?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Yeah, but the internet has only began to bloom in the past 5 years. I've been on for 3 years and nothing has really changed.

 

And hasn't Vince always hated Meltzer? Didn't Stevie Richards come out with a "RSPW sucks" shirt?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

You know what? I like Bitching. But I don't like to bitch for the sake of it. I bitch because it's a form of venting my frustrations with the WWE.

 

And another thing - why do people think all smarks worshop scott keith?

[Guest El Satanico]

I have no clue...outside of that EWR game I've never even read a thing he has written.

[Guest Sakura]

I don't see how I am supposed to just sit back and enjoy the product when it's not entertaining.

[Guest El Satanico]

I don't see how I am supposed to just sit back and enjoy the product when it's not entertaining.

Because as a fan YOU ARE expected to blindly enjoy every single moment in wrestling good or not.

 

They only allow us to watch their programming because they feel like it, so we should be thankful that they even allow us to be fans.

 

To not do this you give up your right to be a fan.

 

 

 

...or other such nonsense

[Guest Will Scarlet]

And another thing - why do people think all smarks worshop scott keith?

 

I am guessing because Keith is known as being a bitter smark, so if you are a bitter smark, you worship SK. At one point, Keith could influence people, but now he simply does not care and basically goes through the motions. He has basically been saying what everyone has been about why the product is bad, so it's not like he has brought anything innovative to the table.

[Guest the pinjockey]

I don't see how I am supposed to just sit back and enjoy the product when it's not entertaining.

I think this goes back to the "you aren't a wrestler so you can't judge wrestling matches" mantra.

 

Oh wait....sorry, mixing up my anti-smark rhetoric again, after a while it just all runs together.

[Guest snuffbox]

If the WWE would book interesting angles with its talented workers...there wouldnt be anything to bitch about.

[Guest JDMattitudeV1]

I watched Wrestlemania X8 last year and thought it was very disappointing, but I must admit that I marked out for Hogan - Rock, which made the whole thing worthwhile.

 

If I could order Wrestlemania (we don't get PPVs in Australia any more, fuck you Vince) I'm sure I would find something on the card be it Jericho-HBK, Rock-Austin or the Tag Triple threat to mark out for. The fact is that Wrestlemania is just one show of the year, Wrestlemania could be fantastic every year but it means nothing if the overall product sucks, which right now it does.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

In Theory, if they did book talented wrestlers in interesting storylines Smarks would complain about having nothing to complain about...

[Guest Brian]

McMahon tried to hire Meltzer in the past, but Meltzer wouldn't comrrimise his newsletter business and it would be a conflict of interest.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Did he want Meltzer as a writer, booker, or did he want to hire him just to stop him from writing negative things about the company?

[Guest Brian]

He wanted him as a writer. There was bad blood, but I think they're on better terms now.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I just hate what the net has become sometimes. I hate how the net takes matches like Hogan/Warrior, Hogan/Andre, and Hogan/Rock, matches that I hold very closely to my heart, and pisses all over them, citing them as trash simply because Andre didn't pull out a Dragon Suplex. Give me a break. If you can't enjoy those three matches for what they are, than you're not a fan. You're a fucking bitter old man.

I know this is a little petty thing to get pissed over but this paragraph just irritates me. The "IWC" as far as I have ever seen has never crapped on these matches as far as acknowledgement and historical perspective. To need to use exaggerations like "matches that I hold very closely to my heart, and pisses all over them" to get your point across is just wrong.

True. I forgot to mention that in my previous posts. Seriously, I have no idea where he got that from - those three matches almost ALWAYS get the props they earned (even from SK). The only possible exception may be Hogan/Rock. I don't know if it's because others don't hold the matches to the same regard he does? (And to that, I just say - suck it up.)

 

I was thinking - the reason, at least to me, why Wrestlemania has decreased in importance is this: think about the first 8 WMs, and all the guest stars that appeared on any of those shows. It gave a feel of something big, as well as adding a fair bit of mainstream credibility, which Vince can use now after the whole Billy & Chuck thing went awry last September. Look at how Mike Tyson helped WM 14 and the WWF as a whole. This year, WM's guest stars will be... Limp Bizkit? This isn't 2000. The Miller Beer catfight girls? Weak.

 

Anyone can talk about 'accepting it as it is', but as it comes down to it, it makes a difference in whether or not to order the show itself, or waiting for a live feed to pop up (as it did for No Way Out last month). And insulting me or anyone else isn't going to get the job done.