Details on the Goldberg signing, Ultimo Dragon

[Guest Coffey]

Is Regal going to become one of the immediate top pushes in the company? Did Regal get a huge build up? Did the WWE promote Regal? There's your relevance. I can just about guarantee that the WWE is going to try to milk this as much as possible. The only question is do they go for the dramatic surprise entrance (which it sounds like they might try, since they're trying to keep the signing quiet) or go the drawn out Steiner route.

If Regal was over as much as Goldberg was in WCW, even if we're just talking merchandise, then I'm sure it would be no different. Like I stated previously, it's all because of name value. Just like in every other sport.

[Guest bob_barron]

Goldberg got 180 wins and clean wins over almost everyone.

Regal jobbed to Prince Iaukea.

 

You can't compare the two in terms of drawing power.

[Guest Trivia247]

Lets try this again....

 

goldberg?????

 

Good god in heaven....

 

NOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Guest Coffey]

Goldberg got 177 wins and clean wins over almost everyone.

Regal jobbed to Prince Iaukea.

 

You can't compare the two in terms of drawing power.

That's exactly proving my point. He was pushed to the top, he got recognized, thus, he has a name value. Had Regal recieved the push, who knows if he would have gotten over, but if he had, his name value would've been higher as well. Which means, his dollar value goes up.

 

So, you very well can compare the two in terms of drawing power. Does Regal draw as much as someone whom is on the same level as himself? Because I'm pretty sure that Goldberg can draw as much as Sid, Taker & Diesel.

[Guest bob_barron]

Goldberg was pushed to the top and was very big in 1998 and that was all because of winning streak.

 

Since Starrcade 1998 he's not drawn well at all. He may have name value but name value doesn't mean anything when fans don't fork over the money to watch the Pay Per View.

 

Except in Memphis in 2000 (where he did quite well apparently), Regal has never been put in a position to carry the company or draw money.

 

You're comparing Goldberg to three people who are not draws at all. They all may get crowd responses but in the end- don't help you make a profit

[Guest Anglesault]

...he has hurt ONE person, it was an accident, and it wasn't even his fault that the guy had to retire (WCW's fault for making him continue to wrestle, taking more and more shots to the head, by Terry Funk of all people I believe). He never hurt anyone else other than Bret Hart, aside things like the normal bumps and bruises everyone gets from everyone else. Hell, I even personally asked Dave Meltzer about this, and he has confirmed it, I even pasted the email from him months ago.

He also hurt Meng, I believe.

 

And he concussed Hart THREE TIMES. The Mighty Concussion Kick, The "What do you mean that was your head?" elbow drop, an the "DERRR...What was I supposed grab again?" Figure Four. And then he couldnt e bothered to apologize or inquire on Hart's well being.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

If Goldberg is reckless in WWE, I'm sure the resident policeman will be sent his way.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Hopefully he'll put his arm through a window or something on his first night...

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

We complained about Nash coming back.

We complained about Hall coming back.

We complained about Hogan coming back.

We complained about Steiner coming back.

 

Thus far we are batting 1.000 as far as these guys being draws. Why should Goldberg be any different?

 

Hogan was a much bigger draw than Goldberg and his title run killed ratings faster than HHH's did.

 

Sure he has a good moveset, but he doesn't know how to use them in the context of a match, so what's the point. Goldberg has had ONE good match in his entire career.

 

Ultimate Warrior, who Goldberg is often compared to, has had at least four (Summerslam 89, Wrestlemania VI, Wrestlemania VII, Summerslam 92). Even Nash could be good when he wasn't being a lazy bastard. Goldberg is useless.

 

The only 'wrestler' that can really be compared to Goldberg in terms of awfulness is Ahmed Johnson. Goldberg is a little better than him.

 

PS: I believe he also injured Saturn back in 98.

[Guest creativename]

Because I'm pretty sure that Goldberg can draw as much as Sid, Taker & Diesel.

If you hadn't been arguing pro-Goldberg this entire time, I would have sworn that was sarcasm. It goes without saying that drawing like Sid, Taker, and Nash is NOT a good thing.

 

Though I do agree with Downhome in that Goldberg will definitely be mega-over as a face, and that if used correctly, Goldberg can be worth the money they pay him. Seriously though, how preposterously unlikely is it that they will use him correctly? Remember who we're talking about here. Goldberg will be used badly and thus, won't be worth his salary, or his push.

[Guest Downhome]

...he has hurt ONE person, it was an accident, and it wasn't even his fault that the guy had to retire (WCW's fault for making him continue to wrestle, taking more and more shots to the head, by Terry Funk of all people I believe). He never hurt anyone else other than Bret Hart, aside things like the normal bumps and bruises everyone gets from everyone else. Hell, I even personally asked Dave Meltzer about this, and he has confirmed it, I even pasted the email from him months ago.

He also hurt Meng, I believe.

 

And he concussed Hart THREE TIMES. The Mighty Concussion Kick, The "What do you mean that was your head?" elbow drop, an the "DERRR...What was I supposed grab again?" Figure Four. And then he couldnt e bothered to apologize or inquire on Hart's well being.

Meng was only a bruised, hip I believe, and wasn't anything major, and was nothing more than what anyone could do to anyone else, and it wasn't anyones fault, other than Meng just landing long. As for Bret, it isn't Goldberg's problem, it's been stated over, and over, and over that what Goldberg did in the match was not the sole reason Bret was hurt. Bret had been working with a fucked up head for a very long time, and it was just a matter of time before ANYTHING that anyone did to Bret would catch up with him. WCW wanted him to work, and Bret did what he always does, and worked through it. Even Bret Hart himself has stated more than once that it was NOT Goldberg's fault, and he does not feel any ill will towards him, and that he totally blames WCW. Goldberg has also went on the record and stated that he is sorry and felt horrible for what happened to Bret.

[Guest JDMattitudeV1]

This is bad as I'm sure he would have his creative control clause in his contract, basically alowing him to job to only people he want's to. Fuck Goldberg.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Wait a second bob, earlier you went on this tirade about goldberg not being a draw because of WCW's poor PPV performances in 2000. Who was a draw then? WCW was dead and no one was going to watch. Now the WWE is spiraling down the same toilet in terms of ratings and no one is drawing. Basically in your theory there are NO draws becasue the numbers don't match up to what they did during the "Wrestling is the new fad" era in 1998. Buyrates don't make a point at all if you ask me. goldberg wasn't around enough or put in a correct storyline (Just like a lot of top guys in the WWE right now) to draw shit.

[Guest Deebo]

Goldberg is NOT as big as The Rock. Goldberg is NOT as big as Steve Austin. Goldberg is, at least to WWE fans, NOT as big as Shawn Michaels. All of these guys came back, and with the exception of Austin's 2 week rise, did nothing to spike the ratings.

 

I think Goldberg is a bit of a joke to the average WWE fan. Most viewed him as the WCW's version of Austin, and he became more of a joke after the Gillberg thing. I don't ever recall hearing Goldberg chants during the invasion angle, and the only time I've ever remembered hearing Goldberg chants on WWE TV is when Brock Lesnar first debuted and people chanted Goldberg to mock him.

 

I think this will blow up in the WWE's face.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Anglesault, Bill supposedly has appologized and inquired/talked to Bret about what happened. He claimed in one of WCW's "Shoot" interviews in Issue 65 of the WCW Magazine that:

 

"Maybe I didn't take care of him as much as I should have, and for that I'm forever sorry."

 

He also says " I've spoken to Breat about it. Bret is a good guy. I respect Bret. I think he's done more for this business than I will probably ever do."

[Guest Just call me Dan]

You people saying Goldberg was WCW's Austin are getting on my nerves. Is Jericho copying Triple H because he has long blond hair? Is Shelton Benjamin copying Booker T because he is a balck wrestler?

 

Austin is a beer swelling redneck bad ass who always has had a completely different character than Bill's. That's pretty markish to say that since Golberg also sported the Bald/goatee look with black trunks, that he was WCW's Austin. Sid wore just plain black trunks. Bradshaw wears just plain black trunks. Bill already sported the goatee and bald head and never made any adjustments to look or act like Stone Cold. That is a horrible call. I could see you pointing out Booker T's striking resemblence to the Rock's character during his title run in 2000, but saying Goldberg is a copy of Austin is ludicrous.

[Guest Deebo]

He didn't have Austin's gimmick, but he was brought into WCW as an unstoppable force when Austin's popularity was at it's peak in the WWF. He had the exact same look as Austin. WCW was OBVIOUSLY trying to make him their Austin.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Goldberg was WCW's knock-off of Ken Shamrock. At least he was orginally.

 

I don't like Goldberg, but he was in no way a Steve Austin ripoff.

 

However, the vast majority of the WWF audience DID think that. Whether it was true or not is irrelevent in this case because of that.

[Guest El Satanico]

However, the vast majority of the WWF audience DID think that. Whether it was true or not is irrelevent in this case because of that.

That's even what I thought when I first saw Goldberg and i was an equal fan of WCW and WWF.

 

But yes, he was really a Stone Cold lookalike that acted like Ken Scamrock.

[Guest Anglesault]

Anglesault, Bill supposedly has appologized and inquired/talked to Bret about what happened. He claimed in one of WCW's "Shoot" interviews in Issue 65 of the WCW Magazine that:

 

"Maybe I didn't take care of him as much as I should have, and for that I'm forever sorry."

 

He also says " I've spoken to Breat about it. Bret is a good guy. I respect Bret. I think he's done more for this business than I will probably ever do."

That's news to Bret.

[Guest notJames]

Do you guys remember that show The Facts of Life, and how, when all the girls got older and fatter and more useless and talentless, they tried to keep the show on life support by bringing in new co-stars with some name recognition or face value. They signed on Cloris Leachman, a veteran actress, to play Mrs. Garrett's sister. They signed on George Clooney, a virtual nobody with good looks, who would eventually emerge as a star. And then they signed McKenzie Astin, child actor with nothing going for him except being the son of Patty Duke and John Astin. Lucked into his spot, bringing nothing to the table except the slim hope of catching some ethereal demographic or some as-yet-untapped segment of the population to keep the sinking ship afloat.

 

The show was cancelled that same year.

 

Goldberg is McKenzie Astin.

 

Yeah, I know, the analogy is weak, but it's just my fancy way of saying:

 

Fuck Goldberg.

 

When the world never seem... to be living up to your dreams...

[Guest subliminal_animal]

Buzzsaw, here's some tips to being liked.

 

...

 

2. Get an avatar and a funny sig. It shows you're here for the long haul.

Why would anyone like someone because of their signature, or even worse, their avatar? They'd better be better than stolen candy. Stolen fucking candy, yo.

[Guest Brian]

They're bringing in Goldberg to draw, and they didn't bring in Regal that way. Easy as that.

 

Check out his Memphis work. Only place in the US outside of Dreamer's indy run you can find well-worked, smartly paced southern/puerto-rican hybrid brawls.

[Guest bob_barron]

I've seen some of his Memphis work Brian- it was awesome. Oh and Jago- isn't it funny how Regal's shot at the top was a big success while Goldberg has been nothing but a failure for four years?

 

Buyrates don't make a point at all if you ask me.

 

Ummm then what makes a draw? Buyrates (and gate to a lesser extent) are the biggest test of drawing power since a good draw will cause fans to want to part with their $35 every month to see them main event.

 

There are still draws in WWE- The rumble match and HHH v. Steiner Part 1 are good examples.

 

 

The fact remains that Goldberg is no longer a draw. WCW hyped his return, took out a full page in USA Today, got the WWF to concede a quarter hour- and it still bombed.

 

In Goldberg's last full year with the company- two shows he wasn't on did the highest buyrate of the year. That shows that Goldberg is not worth the money and all the other things they are spending to bring him in

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

Goldberg stopped being a draw right after he lost the world belt the first time, and then his ego grew 100 times it's size,Goldberg thinks he is bigger than wrestling and he is not.

[Guest hb2k_buzzsaw]

Goldberg coming in slows down any upward mobility on the Raw side, especially with Nash soon to return as well. Now isn't the time for Goldberg.

 

And Goldberg didn't draw dick for WCW after he lost to Nash. And buyrates (and for that matter, TV rating breakdowns) DO make a point if someone is a draw. That was down to lame booking.

 

If WWE books him well (*ahem!!*), then he could be a success. But looking at the nWo, the split, ECW, WCW....etc....I ain't betting on that

[Guest Downhome]

It's funny that we brought Regal into a Goldberg discussion, because these two guys had one of the worst matches I've ever seen on a Nirto way back when. Their clash of styles, both men acting like they didn't want to work with one another, and the guys at the booth trying their best to make it sound great, when it wasn't, just all made for one shit of a match.

 

I just downloaded it to watch again, and it's almost funny how bad it is.

[Guest bob_barron]

That's the one that Regal got fired over right? I've always wanted to see it just cause the thought of seeing Regal shoot on Goldberg is kind of funny

[Guest Downhome]

That's the one that Regal got fired over right? I've always wanted to see it just cause the thought of seeing Regal shoot on Goldberg is kind of funny

I don't know if he got fired over it or what, I never knew that anyhow. All I know is that the match is SHIT, I'm talking horribleness at it's worse here. Just the way both guys were moving, they did NOT want to be in there. I'll send it to you if you want.

[Guest bob_barron]

I was reading the torch flashbacks and Bischoff suspended Regal for it.

 

It happened in Feb or March of 1998 if you need a timeframe