Watching Confidential I thought of some things

[Guest Sakura]

Because they had no plans for him.

[Guest Anglesault]

I quit. Some of you are so fucking bitter. How is Jericho being buried? He HAS won matches since losing that title

In the midcard. When was the last time he beat a main eventer?

 

Holy Shit, I think it was Austin at No Way Out.

[Guest Sakura]

How is being in the midcard ruined or buried!? That is what is so silly about all this stuff, and it happens ALL THE TIME on this forum.

 

Depushed, yes. But if Jericho is "buried" and "ruined" then I want to join the WWE and get buried. I could be IC Champ!

 

Well if that still existed.

[Guest Anglesault]

Because they had no plans for him.

So. You have no plans for the former champ two months later and that's not a burial. Okey Dokey then.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

And it is HHH's fault or did the bookers just decide to put him in the midcard?

 

Do you think it is merely coincidence that Jericho's (steep) fall has directly come after feuding with HHH? Esp. when there are reports that HHH has it in for Jericho? Esp. when we see Jericho being lotion boy and dog walker for Steph and HHH - two very powerful people in the WWE?

[Guest Anglesault]

How is being in the midcard ruined or buried!?

He was the world heavyweight champion. then they jobbed him out and sent him to the midcard. It's a big demotion. Who the fuck enters the business with aspirations of becoming a midcarder?

 

I want to join the WWE and get buried. I could be IC Champ!

 

And what an IC reign Jericho had! ll three weeks of it where he looked absolutely terrible.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

How come Austin, HHH, Rock don't fall to the midcard? Oh, because they're important. Guys like Jericho, guys who sometimes get to play with the big boys but never really have a chance to be in the club, just get tossed away because they just aren't important. That's not being depushed, that's being buried.

[Guest Sakura]

Justin Credible was buried, being sent to the midcard and used on RAW main events is not that big of a deal.

 

 

I don't know or care if HHH had anything to do with Jericho having bad programs after feuding with him. That's entirely not the point. The point is that HHH beating him wasn't what moved him down.

[Guest treble charged]

Didn't Jericho ask to work with Cena, though? I'm pretty sure I remember hearing something where he and Angle wanted to work with him to help show him the ropes.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he asked to put Cena over at Vengeance, personally.

[Guest Sakura]

Again, if being "buried" means you get to work RAW main events and get mid card ppv matches then sign me up to be buried by HHH. I'm betting a lot of wrestlers would also love to be "buried".

[Guest Anglesault]

Again, if being "buried" means you get to work RAW main events and get mid card ppv matches

Hey, that sounds like Spike Dudley!

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Does anyone take Chris Jericho seriously anymore?

[Guest Sakura]

If you're suggesting Jericho is in the same position as Spike Dudley I'm done, because this just turned comical.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Didn't Jericho ask to work with Cena, though? I'm pretty sure I remember hearing something where he and Angle wanted to work with him to help show him the ropes.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he asked to put Cena over at Vengeance, personally.

Yeah he did. I read an interview with him on 1wrestling.com and I do believe that is what he said.

[Guest MrRant]

Because being that this is isn't a real sport where the best players are playing and it is owned by someone who plays favorites I think you have your answer.

[Guest bob_barron]

Does anyone take Chris Jericho seriously anymore?

Hopefully Wrestlemania will change that

[Guest Anglesault]

If you're suggesting Jericho is in the same position as Spike Dudley I'm done, because this just turned comical.

No. But Dudley midcards PPVs and occasionally main events Raw. Doesn't mean Jackshit.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Anyway I'm bored might as well just say stuff in reply.

 

But it obviously IS broke. It doesn't take a very long time to create a new star - JR and Linda are just talking out of their asses in trying to justify not putting the 'new stars' over the main eventers.

 

It's not broken. It's just not being used right. Look at it this way, you have a part that you have in wrong in a machine recently, do you take it out and call it crap and get a new one that you don't even need?

 

As Angle said, they were just plain gone. Jericho was there. They knew he would be there. They knew he would lose after Mania and needed a program... They didn't give him one. A former Champion not getting even an after-thought by the company.

 

You got me there honestly.

 

There was no need for this other than to put HHH over after his loss to Hogan. They needed a way to sell the PPV and they figured Jerichos expendible and HIAC is a sure-sell.

 

It was WM rematch. They always have them and Jericho IS expendible. He's relatively young in the business and still can be used correctly when the time comes.

 

Why should Jericho be even competing in the KOTR let alone losing in the first match? This is a guy who was the champion...

 

RVD and Brock Lesnar were also in the tournament. It was obviously for the upper midcard.

 

Cena GAINED something? Huh? That was a nothing match. Cena didn't do ANYTHING afterwards.

 

Did Kid gain something immediately either? No but it just showed people he could get decent wins or atleast almost win and wasn't another generic OVW guy.

 

Yep, lost to an old-guy.

 

An old guy that alot of smarks cream over and his whole moveset is a chop and his whole interview spiel is whooo.

 

Yep, the 6 PPV losing streak is over. Finally, Jericho reigns supreme over the man who lost to Rico. Wasn't this for the IC title or something? Didn't Jericho get the IC title once - where they pasted the belt to his pre-existing 'graphic' rather than shoot a new one?

 

Flair losing to Rico had nothing to do with him. It's still him coming out the winner in their feud. And that's just senseless bitching complaining about a fucking graphic? HHH had a graphic that was the same as before except with the facial hair removed. OMG he's gonna get buried too.

 

In the tag division. The former WWE Undisputed champion in the tag division.

 

The same tag division that has also had the memorable TLC matches, HHH and Austin, etc.

 

Everyone other than HHH was buried in that match. Booker, Jericho, RVD, Kane... They couldn't do what an old cripple could do...

 

Ummm Booker eliminated RVD and Jericho eliminated Booker and Kane and he got pinned by Shawn. HHH didn't even win. How did it bury everyone but him? Oh yeah forgot, we're doing the status quo hhhating here.

 

In the tag division. Sweet lady midcard.

 

Actually upper midcard.

 

And eliminated by....Test?

 

And I'm sure 8 years down the road people will remember and think "Damn Jericho sucks so much ass. He got eliminated by Test after HBK distracted him"

 

No one cares.

 

And people will care about being eliminated by Test?

 

It isn't. Jericho has been ruined for quite some time. This just continues to bury him deeper and deeper, making it that much harder from gaining credibility. Jericho has incredible talent, but one more big loss and it's over for him.

 

Jericho has an incredible talent to blow an opportunity when given one. I'm not saying he sucks but I don't think he's ready yet, especially not now. And RRR's marking it down kids. If Jericho loses to Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania, tune in to see your favorite canuck on HeAT, Sundays at 7.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

No, WM won't change that as Jericho will win really cheaply... as always.

[Guest Anglesault]

There was no need for this other than to put HHH over after his loss to Hogan. They needed a way to sell the PPV and they figured Jerichos expendible and HIAC is a sure-sell.

 

It was WM rematch. They always have them and Jericho IS expendible. He's relatively young in the business and still can be used correctly when the time comes.

Jericho is, what 34? Around there I think. That's not horrendously young for a business where you really tend to become broken down at 40.

 

Did Kid gain something immediately either? No but it just showed people he could get decent wins or atleast almost win and wasn't another generic OVW guy.

 

The fuck? He was pushed as another generic OVW guy until November.

 

The same tag division that has also had the memorable TLC matches, HHH and Austin, etc.

 

HHH/Austin was an abnormality that lasted a month. And TLC's were still very much midcard.

 

Actually upper midcard.

 

Keyword here, midcard.

 

Ummm Booker eliminated RVD and Jericho eliminated Booker and Kane and he got pinned by Shawn. HHH didn't even win. How did it bury everyone but him?

 

No one in that match was able to beat HHH, who was bleeding 3 minutes in and injured ten minutes in, except HBK, a half cripple, who only won because HHH was injured and HBK was only able to hold on to it for a month.

[Guest treble charged]

I really don't see what was so wrong with Jericho being in the tag division.

 

The tag division was the best part of Raw for a while, and that was all because of Jericho/Christian and Booker/Goldust.

 

The main event was taken up by HHH and HBK for the most part, so why not put him in the tag division and try and add some value to the tag belts?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

It's not broken. It's just not being used right.

 

HHH doesn't draw, the fans' interest in Austin is falling fast, Rock is about to be gone... both their returns and title runs mean nothing to the company... Their value is shrinking by the day. Broke.

 

Look at it this way, you have a part that you have in wrong in a machine recently, do you take it out and call it crap and get a new one that you don't even need?

 

Depends on how important the part is and how much damage it is causing... In this case, you use your old part to complement your new part so that ultimately the machine can sustain itself on the new part alone.

 

It was WM rematch. They always have them and Jericho IS expendible. He's relatively young in the business and still can be used correctly when the time comes.

 

NOTHING is expendible! That's like taking an axe to a tree, swinging it once, and saying "Hey, the tree's not falling". Well, so many strikes and the tree will fall.

 

RVD and Brock Lesnar were also in the tournament. It was obviously for the upper midcard.

 

Brock Lesnar was a rookie and it was RVD's first go. Neither man was former champion.

 

Did Kid gain something immediately either? No but it just showed people he could get decent wins or atleast almost win and wasn't another generic OVW guy.

 

Waltmans win MADE him. Hence the name '1,2,3' kid. They played it up. Cena winning isn't remembered at all, not today, not 2 weeks after it happened.

 

An old guy that alot of smarks cream over and his whole moveset is a chop and his whole interview spiel is whooo.

 

Ric Flair has NO VALUE in wrestling anymore.

 

Flair losing to Rico had nothing to do with him.

 

It had a lot to do with Flairs place in the company though.

 

It's still him coming out the winner in their feud.

 

He didn't really *win* though. It's like saying "Hey, I won the hotdog eating competition... *barf*"

 

And that's just senseless bitching complaining about a fucking graphic? HHH had a graphic that was the same as before except with the facial hair removed. OMG he's gonna get buried too.

 

It showed their commitment to his title reign. They didn't bother putting in the effort of making a new graphic because they new Jericho was merely holding it for Kane - who was just holding it for HHH.

 

The same tag division that has also had the memorable TLC matches, HHH and Austin, etc.

 

The same tag division that is completely meaningless.

 

Ummm Booker eliminated RVD and Jericho eliminated Booker and Kane and he got pinned by Shawn.

 

End Result: Cripple Winning, Healthy Strong Guys losing.

 

HHH didn't even win. How did it bury everyone but him? Oh yeah forgot, we're doing the status quo hhhating here.

 

HHH ended up winning at the next PPV. He still stayed in the main event scene. The other guys dropped from sight.

 

Actually upper midcard.

 

You're right. Still, comparing it to last year, it's a step down.

 

And I'm sure 8 years down the road people will remember and think "Damn Jericho sucks so much ass. He got eliminated by Test after HBK distracted him"

 

Just as much as they remember "Jericho lasted 40 minutes"

 

And people will care about being eliminated by Test?

 

And people will care about going 40 minutes...

 

Jericho has an incredible talent to blow an opportunity when given one. I'm not saying he sucks but I don't think he's ready yet, especially not now.

 

Fans wanted him to win in 2000. How wasn't he 'ready'?

 

And RRR's marking it down kids. If Jericho loses to Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania, tune in to see your favorite canuck on HeAT, Sundays at 7.

 

Or "Never again see Jericho as a credible wrestler" but whatever.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I've got a question for you guys: even if Jericho wins at wrestlemania, where does he go from there? With the supposed return of Goldberg and Nash, not to mention Steve, Rock and Trips, will he even be near the title? To me, unless he is traded to Smackdown and finds success there, the win will be useless without a followup.

[Guest Anglesault]

I really don't see what was so wrong with Jericho being in the tag division.

 

The tag division was the best part of Raw for a while, and that was all because of Jericho/Christian and Booker/Goldust.

 

The main event was taken up by HHH and HBK for the most part, so why not put him in the tag division and try and add some value to the tag belts?

 

Because he shouldn't be a midcarder. Simple as that. They don't demote Steve Austin or HHH to the tag ranks while the champion is feuding with someone. They find someone else of main event caliber to feud them with. Just admit that Jericho was handed a huge demotion and burial and we can be done with this.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Jericho is, what 34? Around there I think. That's not horrendously young for a business where you really tend to become broken down at 40.

 

Isn't Jericho 33? If so, that's still 7 years until he all of a sudden falls on the ground in fits of pain.

 

The fuck? He was pushed as another generic OVW guy until November.

 

Atleast this generic OVW guy wasn't a 3rd generation blue chipper who no matter who his parents were was still boring or playing second fiddle to D-Von. He was getting wins over Jericho and near-wins over Angle.

 

HHH/Austin was an abnormality that lasted a month. And TLC's were still very much midcard.

 

The TLC matches still added alot of value to the belts and HHH/Austin was an abnormality? As abnormal as HBK/Austin, Austin/Taker, Taker/Kane, Rock/Mankind, Taker/Big Show?

 

Keyword here, midcard.

 

Forgot the first word, UPPER which helps define the keyword. Two oranges on a table but one's bigger and someone asks you to grab the orange. Doesn't matter though because orange is the keyword, no?

 

No one in that match was able to beat HHH, who was bleeding 3 minutes in and injured ten minutes in, except HBK, a half cripple, who only won because HHH was injured and HBK was only able to hold on to it for a month.

 

No one could beat HHH even though Shawn won?

[Guest treble charged]

He was demoted, no doubt, but I don't buy that it was a burial. He was still featured prominently on the show and was having good matches with Goldust, Booker, etc.

 

This is all rather pointless, though, as I don't think Jericho is at home now, crying into his pillow because he isn't champion right now.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I've got a question for you guys: even if Jericho wins at wrestlemania, where does he go from there? With the supposed return of Goldberg and Nash, not to mention Steve, Rock and Trips, will he even be near the title? To me, unless he is traded to Smackdown and finds success there, the win will be useless without a followup.

 

Hard to tell. A feud with booker is probable - but it will be overshadowed by a Austin/HHH/Nash feud... Which is the whole point...

 

Every title besides the World Title (s) are worthless BTW (and even THOSE belts have debated worth). The WWE lost control of their titles a long time ago.

[Guest Anglesault]

He was getting wins over Jericho and near-wins over Angle.

And then promptly jobbing clean to D-Von of all fucking people multiple times. (Once or Twice on velocity)

 

The TLC matches still added alot of value to the belts

 

Not enough to make them main event.

 

and HHH/Austin was an abnormality? As abnormal as HBK/Austin, Austin/Taker, Taker/Kane, Rock/Mankind, Taker/Big Show?

 

Yes, those weren't tag teams. They were marriages of convenience with reigns that frequently lasted two weeks before the team broke up. With the exception of Taker/Kane, they weren't actually part of the tag division. JeriChristian was relageted to the tag division for three months.

 

Forgot the first word, UPPER which helps define the keyword. Two oranges on a table but one's bigger and someone asks you to grab the orange. Doesn't matter though because orange is the keyword, no?

 

It's a bigger orange. Not an apple.

 

No one could beat HHH even though Shawn won? 

 

None of those four guys could do it, but a cripple could.

[Guest TheGame2705]

HHH doesn't draw, the fans' interest in Austin is falling fast, Rock is about to be gone... both their returns and title runs mean nothing to the company... Their value is shrinking by the day. Broke.

 

What do you expect H to draw with? A racism angle with an upper midcarder? A feud with a guy who rambles on and on about nothing? An angle where he calls someone a necro? I'm not saying it isn't his fault too but they haven't exactly been giving him much to work with.

 

Depends on how important the part is and how much damage it is causing... In this case, you use your old part to complement your new part so that ultimately the machine can sustain itself on the new part alone.

 

You don't want the old part to be used anymore except a temporary spare or backup. You just wanna yank out the old part that's fallen out of place put a new one in and use the old one as a backup.

 

NOTHING is expendible! That's like taking an axe to a tree, swinging it once, and saying "Hey, the tree's not falling". Well, so many strikes and the tree will fall.

 

Listen, Rock has jobbed to Mark Henry and had a string of matches with Brood Edge and Gangrel. Last I checked, The Rock is one of the most famous pop culture personalities ever.

 

Brock Lesnar was a rookie and it was RVD's first go. Neither man was former champion.

 

RVD's first go at what? He had already had a world title main event and I believe an IC title run.

 

Waltmans win MADE him. Hence the name '1,2,3' kid. They played it up. Cena winning isn't remembered at all, not today, not 2 weeks after it happened.

 

Kid didn't end up doing anything relevant really ever with that gimmick. He only had two fluke tag title reigns and was remembered as the underdog who never quite could win the big one.

 

Ric Flair has NO VALUE in wrestling anymore.

 

He's still a name. That means something.

 

It had a lot to do with Flairs place in the company though.

 

Yeah and Flair's place wasn't a no-name jobber. It still meant something, maybe not very big, but still something nonetheless and he won the feud.

 

He didn't really *win* though. It's like saying "Hey, I won the hotdog eating competition... *barf*" It doesn't matter what happens with that situation afterwards if you won though. Mankind's old system of job the whole feud then win the big one always worked for him.

 

It showed their commitment to his title reign. They didn't bother putting in the effort of making a new graphic because they new Jericho was merely holding it for Kane - who was just holding it for HHH.

 

They didn't make a new graphic for HHH either and a bunch of others too. That's just nitpicking. I'm sure the last thing on the creative team's mind is a 30 second graphic.

 

The same tag division that is completely meaningless.

 

It's meaningless now because Regal's pretty much done for a while and he's one of the champs. If it means nothing then why did the announcers hype it up so much and what was the purpose of BookDust vs. Jericho and Christian?

 

End Result: Cripple Winning, Healthy Strong Guys losing.

 

HHH is a strong guy but healthy by no means.

 

HHH ended up winning at the next PPV. He still stayed in the main event scene. The other guys dropped from sight.

 

Yeah, the NEXT PPV. Not that one but the next one.

 

You're right. Still, comparing it to last year, it's a step down.

 

True but Bret Hart ran 1994 and the next year feuded with Hakushi, Austin ran 2001 during the Alliance and the next year had an upper mid feud with Scott Hall, Nash ran 1995 and wasn't even around the next year except for the first few months.

 

Just as much as they remember "Jericho lasted 40 minutes"

Well if neither matters then the Royal Rumble talk is a moot point.

 

Fans wanted him to win in 2000. How wasn't he 'ready'?

 

Pops=\=buyrates and ratings, fans are supposed to want the faces to win.

[Guest TheGame2705]

And then promptly jobbing clean to D-Von of all fucking people multiple times. (Once or Twice on velocity)

You can't win 'em all. You gotta lose sometimes.

 

Not enough to make them main event.

Why do the tag belts have to be main event though? I'm just pointing out that those matches gave those belts credibility and they're not a joke.

 

Yes, those weren't tag teams. They were marriages of convenience with reigns that frequently lasted two weeks before the team broke up. With the exception of Taker/Kane, they weren't actually part of the tag division. JeriChristian was relageted to the tag division for three months.

 

That's not the point. The point is that main eventers holding the belts also helped raised their crediblity. And if they weren't teams then what were they? So were Booker T and Goldust and Goldust is more over than Christian and can work a better promo.

 

It's a bigger orange. Not an apple.

Where did apples come in? Can you explain that one?

 

No one could beat HHH even though Shawn won? 

 

None of those four guys could do it, but a cripple could. That's not the point. You said no one could beat him but someone did. Doesn't matter who did, someone did and you said no one could in that match.