Guest Ronixis Posted March 24, 2003 Report Posted March 24, 2003 I am not going to say that Xenogears is the best RPG ever made. I am going to say that Xenogears is one of the better written RPG's ever made. That being said- Andrew MISSED the point in his first post dealing with Xenosaga/Gears, dealing with Marxism. The game really deals with Gnois (The Gospel of Thomas and all the rest) And states what in the Gnois Bible, that the Phyiscal World is fake and the Spritual world is real, and The Players in this game (Both of the games) deal with this. That being said, Namco USA did the right thing in taking care of the Pedast (sp) issue. Andrew, your 100% right on this issue. But again, Like I said some years ago in a Animation Con, "The East (Japan-HK-Korea) wants it covered up and young, The West (US-Europe) wants it bare and legal" In other words, the Japanese dont like hair down there. (No Offense) And I never liked FF. NEVER. Squares best RPG's were the Chrono Series (Even though they made Cross too much like Xenogears which was a bad idea. The story does not hold up until the end) Enix did better with Star Ocean, which IMO (without the bad edit of SO2) was the best even handed RPG. I never was a Dragon Warrior fan, like FF because I was never intrested. I never played Valkrie Profile, but I heard its was better than Xenogears. As for Xenosaga, You can skip the CG's but the story will become way too confusing, I would wait until SO3 comes out. Dark Cloud 2 Might be a better game... .//Hack tries too hard to be a Japanese version of Morrowind/Everquest/D&D for itself. It could pass as a better series if they commit to just one medium, instead of using TV, Video Games, and Comic to tell a story, that have been easily told using one of these three.
Conspiracy_Victim Posted March 24, 2003 Report Posted March 24, 2003 Xenogears is actually part of one of the chapters of Xenosaga. They are supposed to be related distantly.
Guest creativename Posted March 24, 2003 Report Posted March 24, 2003 Xenogears is actually part of one of the chapters of Xenosaga. They are supposed to be related distantly. No, Gears was originally supposed to be part V of VI with Saga as a prequel. However they ended up being completely unrelated, and Saga is part I of a new series.
Guest Kahran Ramsus Posted March 24, 2003 Report Posted March 24, 2003 Eh, I personally think Xenogears is the second most overrated videogame of all time (behind FF4), but I'm still somewhat interested in Xenosaga. It sounds like Xenosaga will have more of the great plot and less of the horrific, unspeakably awful gameplay, so that sounds good to me. Xenogears would have been great if it wasn't unplayable. It plays better than Xenogears does. At least there is no more jump button or random encounters every two steps. Besides, his biggest complaints were with regards to plot.
Guest Kahran Ramsus Posted March 24, 2003 Report Posted March 24, 2003 Xenogears is actually part of one of the chapters of Xenosaga. They are supposed to be related distantly. No, Gears was originally supposed to be part V of VI with Saga as a prequel. However they ended up being completely unrelated, and Saga is part I of a new series. They aren't completely unrelated. Some elements remain even though Episode V is going to be remade and Xenogears isn't a part of the actual Xenosaga series.
Guest Star Ocean 3 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 I think I saw someone mention SO3. We should all wait for it.
Guest AndrewTS Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 That being said- Andrew MISSED the point in his first post dealing with Xenosaga/Gears, dealing with Marxism. You actually think that Nietzche and Marx are related in any way, shape, or form? Nietzche's ideals were the basis--or at least, his sister's perversion of them--for Nazism. Nietzche himself was an anti-Semite. The quote that Xenosaga uses as a subtitle is a Nietzche quote. The Gnosis connection is there, but from what I understand "Der Wille zur Macht"--which translates into "The Will to Power"--is the central theme to the game. Nietzche believed that individuals are unequal in essence, and should the greater among them should thus strive to rise to power at the expense of anyone else. He felt Christian ideals placed unnecessary humility on the human race, and that humans could fill the void left by God since, in his world view, "God is dead." Completely the opposite of Marxism, which advocates that the proletariat seize power and tear down class barriers. Marxists and Nazis are polar opposites. You may also know Nietzche from his idea of the "ubermeche" (superman) and the men he influenced, like Richard Wagner (pronounced "Vog-ner"). Wagner composed many musical works based on Nietzche's writing, like "Also Sprach Zarathustra"--many of you know it better as the theme from 2001 and Ric Flair's theme. It plays better than Xenogears does. At least there is no more jump button or random encounters every two steps. Besides, his biggest complaints were with regards to plot. No, I have many other complaints with Gears, however, many RPG players defend it on the basis that it has a great plot. Or rather, it tells a story well. There is a difference. Even if the plot is appealing to you, the preachiness of Gears and the way the developers bash you over the head with their themes will likely drive most players away. I'm shocked it hasn't. Having a great plot and being well written are not the same. Monolith soft--hmph, how much more pretentious can you get than naming yourself after the artifact from 2001: A Space Oddysey?
Guest Lightning Flik Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 Xenogears is actually part of one of the chapters of Xenosaga. They are supposed to be related distantly. No, Gears was originally supposed to be part V of VI with Saga as a prequel. However they ended up being completely unrelated, and Saga is part I of a new series. They aren't completely unrelated. Some elements remain even though Episode V is going to be remade and Xenogears isn't a part of the actual Xenosaga series. Actually, Xenogears is just a clipping of Episode 5. There was a lot more to it than what we were given. So I wouldn't be surprised if we were given a remake of Xenogears, but given the whole Episode. Not the cut up version Square gave us. BTW, I'm sick of the crap that we still get kiddy characters in RPGs. No offense, but I'd like them to be adults. Lately, all we've been getting is kids (Squaresoft's even touch and go). I'd like a 29 year old hero for once. Just because the person will be more believable with the "I'm the seasoned adventurer" role. SO3 should be a great game. Definitely one I'll be renting to buy if it's as nice as some people say it will be. Seriously though, no one has played Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter besides me? If you need a good game to pick up I highly recommend it. Kinda different feel. And this is probably the first game where the damned cel shading pays off in actually making the game look great graphically.
Guest Lightning Flik Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 It plays better than Xenogears does. At least there is no more jump button or random encounters every two steps. Besides, his biggest complaints were with regards to plot. No, I have many other complaints with Gears, however, many RPG players defend it on the basis that it has a great plot. Or rather, it tells a story well. There is a difference. Even if the plot is appealing to you, the preachiness of Gears and the way the developers bash you over the head with their themes will likely drive most players away. I'm shocked it hasn't. Having a great plot and being well written are not the same. Monolith soft--hmph, how much more pretentious can you get than naming yourself after the artifact from 2001: A Space Oddysey? Yah. It has a good plot, but the way it was told was a little off. I'll give ya that Andrew. Didn't know that Monolift was lifted from Space Odessy, although if you think about how Saga is a "space odessy" (not the movie but an adventure in space), it kinda is ironic at least.
Guest AndrewTS Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 Ronixis: I hated Chrono Cross as well, so you're not alone. I liked the classic FFs but I always preferred Chrono Trigger over it. Yah. It has a good plot, but the way it was told was a little off. I'll give ya that Andrew. Didn't know that Monolift was lifted from Space Odessy, although if you think about how Saga is a "space odessy" (not the movie but an adventure in space), it kinda is ironic at least. That's what I'm saying: Gears was not a well-written game, and the actual gameplay--while flawed--was marred even worse by the game design which depended so much on its actual storytelling to have much merit. Thus, it isn't the GREAT game that so many tout it as. Despite all that I've said, Gears isn't the worst game ever made to me, it just has flaws that people are blind to quite a bit. And naming themselves Monolith while telling a "space oddysey" isn't very ironic, it's appropo. What is ironic is them trying to put themselves in the same league as Stanley Kubrick or Arthur C. Clarke. That's like Ed Wood's ambitious--but doomed--hope to become the next Orson Welles. It just isn't going to happen and Takahashi and crew deserve smacks upside their heads for even thinking of the possibility.
Guest Ronixis Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 That being said- Andrew MISSED the point in his first post dealing with Xenosaga/Gears, dealing with Marxism. You actually think that Nietzche and Marx are related in any way, shape, or form? Nietzche's ideals were the basis--or at least, his sister's perversion of them--for Nazism. Nietzche himself was an anti-Semite. The quote that Xenosaga uses as a subtitle is a Nietzche quote. The Gnosis connection is there, but from what I understand "Der Wille zur Macht"--which translates into "The Will to Power"--is the central theme to the game. Nietzche believed that individuals are unequal in essence, and should the greater among them should thus strive to rise to power at the expense of anyone else. He felt Christian ideals placed unnecessary humility on the human race, and that humans could fill the void left by God since, in his world view, "God is dead." Completely the opposite of Marxism, which advocates that the proletariat seize power and tear down class barriers. Marxists and Nazis are polar opposites. You may also know Nietzche from his idea of the "ubermeche" (superman) and the men he influenced, like Richard Wagner (pronounced "Vog-ner"). Wagner composed many musical works based on Nietzche's writing, like "Also Sprach Zarathustra"--many of you know it better as the theme from 2001 and Ric Flair's theme. My Mistake, thanks for clearing that up, that was a huge typo.
Guest Ronixis Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 Xenogears is actually part of one of the chapters of Xenosaga. They are supposed to be related distantly. No, Gears was originally supposed to be part V of VI with Saga as a prequel. However they ended up being completely unrelated, and Saga is part I of a new series. They aren't completely unrelated. Some elements remain even though Episode V is going to be remade and Xenogears isn't a part of the actual Xenosaga series. Actually, Xenogears is just a clipping of Episode 5. There was a lot more to it than what we were given. So I wouldn't be surprised if we were given a remake of Xenogears, but given the whole Episode. Not the cut up version Square gave us. BTW, I'm sick of the crap that we still get kiddy characters in RPGs. No offense, but I'd like them to be adults. Lately, all we've been getting is kids (Squaresoft's even touch and go). I'd like a 29 year old hero for once. Just because the person will be more believable with the "I'm the seasoned adventurer" role. SO3 should be a great game. Definitely one I'll be renting to buy if it's as nice as some people say it will be. Seriously though, no one has played Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter besides me? If you need a good game to pick up I highly recommend it. Kinda different feel. And this is probably the first game where the damned cel shading pays off in actually making the game look great graphically. Would a 29 year old Hero work these days? They love the Teenage angst! It sells. I mean LOOK at FF-x2. Good Lordi, they knew where they were aiming that episode to. The same with FF7. I dont know how a 29 year old RPG hero will sell in Japan. Villian Maybe, but Hero I dont know. They just aim young-no fault of their own, its the culture-conseritve with many (what we Christans would call Moral) flaws.
Guest CED Ordonez Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 Now that you mention it, Flik, I saw BoF: Dragon Quarter in my local Best Buy and was surprised to see it that it had been released. Thank the lack of a advertising campaign if this turns out to be the forgotten gem a few years down the road. I'll consider picking it up though since I have enjoyed the Breath of Fire series in the past. BTW, I'm sick of the crap that we still get kiddy characters in RPGs. No offense, but I'd like them to be adults. Lately, all we've been getting is kids (Squaresoft's even touch and go). I'd like a 29 year old hero for once. Just because the person will be more believable with the "I'm the seasoned adventurer" role. I think the mindset for companies is that your main demographics are between the young teen to young adult age groups. Therefore, your main characters are people to whom your demographic can relate, hence the plucky teen characters with a lot of emotional baggage. They still have to aim to appeal to those groups, but seeing a character the likes of FFX's Auron playing the lead would be a refreshing change. As I type this, I get visions of Auron slashing the hell out of enemies to the theme of "Otherworld". It puts a big grin on my face, so I know at least Lightning Flik and I would be fine with a middle-aged protagonist as a main character.
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 I have to agree that I am fed up with all the Teenage Angst as well! I want a grizzled old man as my main character!
Guest Lightning Flik Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 (edited) I have to agree that I am fed up with all the Teenage Angst as well! I want a grizzled old man as my main character! Like at least get the guy above 22 and I'd be happy. I mean, why the hell do you make the teens look like their adults and then say they are 16 and have been around the world six times over??? I mean, I don't mind the demographic stuff, just tone down the disbelief. It takes away from the game. Actually, if you EXPLAIN it great and it fits with the storyline, I'll forgive. Edited March 25, 2003 by Lightning Flik
Guest AndrewTS Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 I have to agree that I am fed up with all the Teenage Angst as well! I want a grizzled old man as my main character! Agreed, and on a related note: I was very ticked off when I got MGS2 and found out that most of the game I would be controlling that bishonen ninny Raiden. Shame on you, Konami. Snake ruled. However, it seems they and other game companies insist on giving us wussy and angsty young main characters. Oh, and there's a rather amusing review from one of those sites I visit: http://www.toastyfrog.com/2d/games/mini_ffx2.shtml It's actually a good game--but it comes at a bit of a price. Link's okay in Zelda since the game isn't story driven for the most part (yeah, I know, Action RPG vs. RPG, but same difference), but playing a badass character would be nice for once. When I played FFVII, I wished above anything else I'd be able to play as Sephiroth. Sure, he had the bishonen looks, but he kicked ass, was cold and calculating, and butchered that bitch Aerith without batting an eye. Now THAT was cool.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 EDIT: This post is edited out because it turns out there's two companies named Monolith and I have them confused. Either way, you REALLY could stand to settle down. You're going overboard with this shit and while the point is valid, you could still stand to chill.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted March 25, 2003 Report Posted March 25, 2003 Yeah, but it's true. I just can't believe people are complaining about things like panty shots when Japan has an entire anime that is basically one long panty shot. Fan service is nothing new.
Guest Special K Posted March 27, 2003 Report Posted March 27, 2003 I just think it's funny that people are getting all in a huff, when the whole of America's gaming developers main concern is playing the 'how big can we get those titties?' game. They censored the game. Plus, quoting nietzche is not equatable to beeing a nazi. That's akin to saying quoting the bible means you wnat to kill Jews as well, due to the inquisition, or Arabs, due to the crusades. Just because a philosophy may be cynical and fairly cold doesn't mean it has no worth. Machiavelli's worth a read. Of course Xenosaga's not going to be able to live up to the philosophers it quotes, or the great sci-fi writers that so obviously inspired it. it doesn't mean it's complete garbage either. The story's an enjoyable space-opera that's better than at least %50 of the sci-fi movies that get released over here. I'll leave the play mechanics and pacing to someone else, since they annoy me too. PS-If you're one of the people going on and on about the movies being too long, PLAY DARK CLOUD 2. It's all gmeplay, all the time. I DARE you to try and do everything in THAT game.
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