More on Moore

[Guest TheMikeSC]

"I agree with the National Rifle Association when they say, 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people,' " he told NBC's "Today" show. "Except I would alter that to say, 'Guns don't kill people, Americans kill people.' We're the only country that does this, and we do it on an personal level in our neighborhoods and within our families and our schools, and we do it on a global level. The American attitude is that we believe we have a right to just go in and bomb another country. This is where Bush is going right now, right?"

 

"The first misconception to correct about Michael Moore's The Big One is that it is a documentary. It's not. Moore doesn't make those. As was proven after the release of Moore's debut, Roger & Me, the director uses real people, places, and circumstances, then stages events (see Harlan Jacobson's piece in the November/ December 1989 Film Comment for more details). Reality ­ a fragile commodity in any "fact-based" motion picture ­ takes a back seat to what will play well on a movie screen. As a result, it's best to consider Moore's films as entries into the ever-growing category of pseudo (or "meta") documentaries. Or, perhaps even more accurately, view it as an exercise in self-publicity. "

 

James Berardinelli

 

Some Factoids about His "Documentary"

 

--- A Lockheed Martin factory in Littleton manufactures "weapons of mass destruction," Mr. Moore claims. The factory actually makes rockets that carry TV satellites into space.

 

Moore's website has his response:

 

"Well, first of all, the Lockheed PR people would disagree with your use of the term, "missile." They now call their Titan and Atlas missiles on which nuclear warheads were once (and still are but in less numbers) attached, "rockets." That's because the Lockheed rockets now take satellites into outer space. Some of them are weather satellites, some are telecommunications satellites, and some are top secret Pentagon projects (like the ones that are launched as spy satellites and others which are used to direct the launching of the nuclear missiles should the USA ever decide to use them). "

 

Nice try, Mike.

 

(1) Yes, some Titans and Atlases (54 of them) were used as ICBM launchers -- they were deactivated 25 years ago, long before the Columbine killers were born;

 

(2) the fact that some are spy satellites which might be "used to direct the launching" (i.e., because they spot nukes being launched at the United States) is hardly what Moore was suggesting in the movie... it's hard to envision a killer making a moral equation between mass murder and a recon satellite, right?

 

(3) In fact, one of that plant's major projects was the ultimate in beating swords into plowshares: the Denver plant was in charge of taking the Titan missiles which originally had carried nuclear warheads, and converting them to launch communications satellites and space exploration units instead.

 

--- And the very title of Mr. Moore's film is based on a deception. It refers to the bowling class that the Columbine killers supposedly took the morning they committed their murders. The only problem is that they actually cut the class.

 

--- Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was a response to his being given the musket, a collector's piece, at that annual meeting. Bowling leads off with this speech, and then splices in footage which was taken in Denver and refers to Denver, to create the impression that the entire clip was taken at the Denver event.

 

Fact: When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme.

 

Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. It is a lie, a fraud, and quite a few other things. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer, as I will show below. I transcribed Heston's speech as Moore has it, and compared it to a news agency's transcript, color coding the passages. CLICK HERE for the comparison.

 

Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together, to create a speech that was never given. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds.

 

First, right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston's "I have only five words for you . . . cold dead hands" statement, making it seem directed at them. As noted above, it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later to a meeting in North Carolina.

 

Moore then has an interlude -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. The interlude is vital. He can't cut directly to Heston's real Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie. Or why the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore has to separate the two segments of this supposed speech to keep the viewer from noticing.

 

Moore then goes to show Heston speaking in Denver. His second edit (covered by splicing in a pan shot of the crowd at the meeting, while Heston's voice continues) deletes Heston's announcement that NRA has in fact cancelled most of its meeting:

 

"As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that."

 

Moore has to take that out -- it would blow his entire theme. Moore then cuts to Heston noting that Denver's mayor asked NRA not to come, and shows Heston replying "I said to the Mayor: Don't come here? We're already here!" as if in defiance.

 

Actually, Moore put an edit right in the middle of the first sentence! Heston was actually saying (with reference Heston's own WWII vet status) "I said to the mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I've run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing."

 

Moore cuts it after "I said to the Mayor" and attaches a sentence from the end of the next paragraph: "As Americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land." It thus becomes an arrogant "I said to the Mayor: as American's we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land." He hides the deletion by cutting to footage of protestors and a still photo of the Mayor as Heston says "I said to the mayor," cutting back to Heston's face at "As Americans."

 

Moore has Heston then triumphantly announce "Don't come here? We're already here!" Actually, that sentence is clipped from a segment five paragraphs farther on in the speech. Again, Moore uses an editing trick to cover the doctoring. As Heston speaks, the video switches momentarily to a pan of the crowd, then back to Heston; the pan shot covers the doctoring.

 

What Heston actually is saying in "We're already here" was not the implied defiance, but rather this:

 

"NRA members are in city hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.

 

Don't come here? We're already here. This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.

 

So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy."

 

--- Forbes reports that an early scene in "Bowling" in which Mr. Moore tries to demonstrate how easy it is to obtain guns in America was staged. He goes to a small bank in Traverse City, Mich., that offers various inducements to open an account and claims "I put $1,000 in a long-term account, they did the background check, and, within an hour, I walked out with my new Weatherby," a rifle.

 

But Jan Jacobson, the bank employee who worked with Mr. Moore on his account, says that only happened because Mr. Moore's film company had worked for a month to stage the scene. "What happened at the bank was a prearranged thing," she says. The gun was brought from a gun dealer in another city, where it would normally have to be picked up. "Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period," she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: "He just portrayed us as backward hicks."

 

--- . Shooting at Buell Elementary School in Michigan. Bowling depicts the juvenile shooter as a sympathetic youngster who just found a gun in his uncle's house and took it to school. "No one knew why the little boy wanted to shoot the little girl."

 

 

Fact: The little boy was the class bully, already suspended from school for stabbing another kid with a pencil. Since the incident, he has stabbed another child with a knife. (Sources for all data are given at the end of this section).

 

 

Fact: The uncle's house was the neighborhood crack-house. The uncle (together with the shooter's father, then serving a prison term for theft and cocaine possession, and his aunt and maternal grandmother) earned their living off drug dealing. The gun was stolen by one of the uncle's customers and purchased by him in exchange for drugs.

 

--- 7. Miscellaneous. Even the Canadian government is getting into the act. In one scene, Bowling shows Moore casually buying ammunition at an Ontario Walmart. He asks us to "look at what I, a foreign citizen, was able to do at a local Canadian Wal-Mart." He enters the store and buys several boxes of ammunition without a question being raised. "That's right. I could buy as much ammunition as I wanted, in Canada."

 

Canadian officials have pointed out that the buy is either staged or illegal: Canadian law requires all ammunition buyers to present proper identification. (The law, in effect since 1998, requires non-Canadians to present picture ID and a gun importation permit,).

 

While we're at it: Bowling shows footage of a B-52 on display at the Air Force Academy, while Moore solemnly pronounces that the plaque under it "proudly proclaims that the plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve of 1972." Strangely, Moore does not show the plaque.

 

Actually, the plaque reads that "Flying out of Utapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southeast Thailand, the crew of 'Diamond Lil' shot down a MIG northeast of Hanoi during 'Linebacker II' action on Christmas eve 1972." This is pretty mild compared to the rest of Bowling, granted. But it illustrates that the viewer can't even trust Moore to honestly read a document.

 

--- Mr. Moore repeats the canard that the United States gave the Taliban $245 million in aid in 2000 and 2001, somehow implying we were in cahoots with them. But that money actually went to U.N.-affiliated humanitarian organizations that were completely independent of the Taliban.

 

--- Ben Fritz ofSpinsanity.org also notes that Mr. Moore has "apparently altered footage of an ad run by the Bush/Quayle campaign in 1988" to buttress his claim that racial symbolism is frequently misused in American politics. His leading example is the case of Willie Horton, a murderer who became a major issue in the 1988 presidential campaign. Mr. Moore shows the Bush ad that generically attacked a prison furlough program in Michael Dukakis's Massachusetts . Superimposed over the footage of prisoners entering and exiting a prison are the words "Willie Horton released. Then kills again." While the caption appears to be part of the original ad, Mr. Moore actually inserted it; the ad made no mention of Horton. (Another ad, sponsored by the National Security Political Action Committee, a conservative group independent of the Bush campaign, did mention Horton; it aired only briefly in a few cable markets.) The phony Moore caption also is inaccurate; Horton brutalized a Maryland couple and raped the wife, but didn't kill anybody while on furlough

 

On His Book "Stupid White Men"

 

--- In print, too, Mr. Moore plays fast and loose with the facts. In his "Stupid White Men," his best-selling book, he blithely states that five-sixths of the U.S. defense budget in 2001 went toward the construction of a single type of plane and that two-thirds of the $190 million that President Bush raised in his 2000 campaign came from just over 700 individuals, a preposterous assertion given that the limit for individual contributions at the time was $1,000.

When CNN's Lou Dobbs asked Mr. Moore about his inaccuracies, he shrugged off the quesiton. "You know, look, this is a book of political humor. So, I mean, I don't respond to that sort of stuff, you know," he said.

 

"Glaring inaccuracies?" Mr. Dobbs said.

 

"No, I don't. Why should I? How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?"

 

 

 

Just found this interesting.

-Mike

[Guest bob_barron]

That was a terrific read Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

That was a terrific read Mike

I just think that people need to know what kind of a putz Michael Moore is.

 

He has evey right to spout off the idiocy he did on Sunday -- but I have the right to do minimal research (conservatives don't like the guy and have LONG lists of embarrassing comments and inconsistencies of his) and just unload on the clown.

-=Mike

[Guest bob_barron]

I remember reading Roger Ebert's column where he mentioned some of the inaccuracies.

 

The Big One is 90 minutes of him hassling security guards

[Guest Powerplay]

Danke, Mike, for the stuff. I'm gonna send this stuff to my roommate for laughs.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

Very intersting read.

 

The one thing that I thought was good about Bowling for Columbine was that it asked why the US has more gun related deaths than many idustrial nations combined? You might all think Micahel Moore is a putz. I didn't agree with decision to give the anti-war speech at the Oscars. But for what it is worth, he does raise some issues and points that might get ignored otherwise.

 

I would also imagine that many people who make documentries and write books will skew the facts to fit their agenda, to think otherwise might be naive, who knows?

[Guest Some Guy]

This goes a little beyond "skew[ing] the facts" this is outright lying.

 

You know why we have more gun related deaths than any other coutry? We have more people than most countries and those that have more people are filled with poverty ridden people who can't afford guns. Except Russia which has a much higher murder rate and far fewer guns.

 

Moore is just wrong, as are all anti-gun folks when it comes to their notion that "fewer guns equal fewer murders." Guns are nothing more than a means (among millions of others) to commit murder. I will cede that it might be easier to shoot some one rather than stab them to death but that's not the point. Most people who legally own a gun use it for hunting, display, or self-defense. Most murders are committed by people who illegally own a gun. How is it that more gun control laws are going to get a person who has already obtained a gun illegally to return it and how are they supposed to prevent some oen from illegally obtainign a gun? They only keep people seeking to legally obtain guns from getting them and nothing more. Drug dealers and gangs and other criminals will still get there guns but the American public wold be unable to defend themselves against these pieces of garbage. But that's the point (most likely) in Moore's fantasy land. The criminals aren't "pieces of garbage" as I have so elequently stated, they are misunderstood, oppressed people who wouldn't exist if we were not a racist, sexist, capitalistic, imperialistic power or some other such bullshit.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Excellent Article, Mike.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Great article.

 

Micheal Moore is a jackass, plain and simple.

[Guest McLeary]

I always found it ironic that, of a lot of people I've come across in college and what-not, that the same people who would outlaw guns also happen to think drugs should be legal. The issues seem fairly similar to me. We could outlaw all guns tomorrow and it wouldn't do a goddamn thing.

 

I cam across that article earlier today, and kinda wanted to print it out to give my far-left jagoff telecommunications teacher an aneurysm, but I didn't, not because I wouldn't like it if he had an aneurysm, but because I still want to get a good grade. It doesn't matter, anyone who's opinion means dick knows how how full of shit people like Moore are. Personally, when I think of Moore, I hear Steve Austin's voice uttering the phrase "fat piece of garbage" (to Bearer on a '98 RAW), and I think that suits him just fine.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Fascinating stuff, Mike. There is a whole section in Larry Elder's site dedicated to debunking some of the myth that is Michael Moore.

[Guest nl5xsk1]

I spent most of my youth as a liberal, and very anti-government, anti-cop, anti-authority, etc. And then started to realize that I was associating myself with idiots and assholes (e.g. Moore) ... I finally realized that I agreed with those that I was rallying against MORE than I did with those that I had been siding with.

 

If people like Moore toned down their act, they'd do a better job of not alienating people.

 

Just my two cents.

[Guest Si82]

That was a terrific read Mike

I just think that people need to know what kind of a putz Michael Moore is.

 

He has evey right to spout off the idiocy he did on Sunday -- but I have the right to do minimal research (conservatives don't like the guy and have LONG lists of embarrassing comments and inconsistencies of his) and just unload on the clown.

-=Mike

As a Moore fan I found this paritcually fasinating. A top notch read, no question.

 

However, I do have to disagree with you calling his Oscar speech "idiocy". I felt that he did nothing but speak the truth at the Oscars and the fatc that people booed him just totally pissed me off.

 

I do now understand that I am a about to flamed but I don't really care. I feel very strongly about this war and feel that it should not be occuring at all. So flame away if you feel the need but I have the right to my opinion just like the rest of you.

[Guest SP-1]

That was a terrific read Mike

I just think that people need to know what kind of a putz Michael Moore is.

 

He has evey right to spout off the idiocy he did on Sunday -- but I have the right to do minimal research (conservatives don't like the guy and have LONG lists of embarrassing comments and inconsistencies of his) and just unload on the clown.

-=Mike

As a Moore fan I found this paritcually fasinating. A top notch read, no question.

 

However, I do have to disagree with you calling his Oscar speech "idiocy". I felt that he did nothing but speak the truth at the Oscars and the fatc that people booed him just totally pissed me off.

 

I do now understand that I am a about to flamed but I don't really care. I feel very strongly about this war and feel that it should not be occuring at all. So flame away if you feel the need but I have the right to my opinion just like the rest of you.

What, exactly was the "truth" he spoke?

[Guest TheMikeSC]

That was a terrific read Mike

I just think that people need to know what kind of a putz Michael Moore is.

 

He has evey right to spout off the idiocy he did on Sunday -- but I have the right to do minimal research (conservatives don't like the guy and have LONG lists of embarrassing comments and inconsistencies of his) and just unload on the clown.

-=Mike

As a Moore fan I found this paritcually fasinating. A top notch read, no question.

 

However, I do have to disagree with you calling his Oscar speech "idiocy". I felt that he did nothing but speak the truth at the Oscars and the fatc that people booed him just totally pissed me off.

 

I do now understand that I am a about to flamed but I don't really care. I feel very strongly about this war and feel that it should not be occuring at all. So flame away if you feel the need but I have the right to my opinion just like the rest of you.

What "truth" was there? Bush is a "fictitious" President? Well, he WON the election, so not much fiction there.

 

The war is fought for "fictitious" reasons? Well, maybe he could, you know, explain what these reasons are and why they're fictitious.

 

You have to be bad for the Pope and Dixie Chicks to oppose you? Natalie is a liberal. It's not exactly a well-hidden secret. And the Catholic Church opposes all wars, so them not liking this war isn't exactly shocking.

 

His diatribe at the Oscars WAS idiocy. However, I think one of Moore's lines might actually work well against him:

 

You have to be a REALLY big jerk to get Hollywood to boo an anti-Republican, anti-war speech.

-=Mike

[Guest whatitistoburn]

You know, I'm all about scoreboard being scoreboard, and yeah, maybe bush did WIN the election, but he wasn't exactly the choice of the people.

 

I still think the electorial college is a fairly interesting concept.

[Guest whatitistoburn]

Any sites with criticism on Roger and Me, I'd like to know the inaccuarcies in that one.

[Guest SP-1]

Ok. If you have a close election, there are CLEARLY alot of people for you. Otherwise you get complete railroaded. See what I'm saying? So, then, it simply isn't a valid argument to say that he isn't the choice of the people. Or, like Moore, are you to twist things and say that he was the choice of SOME people, just no the ones you care about or would agree with you?

[Guest Olympic Slam]

Michael Savage had a good line reffering to Moore and his book..........

 

"Stupid White Men? What is that, an auto-biography?"

[Guest whatitistoburn]

It was a close race no doubt. However, he lost the popular vote. Would you still say that he was the choice of the people, or is it that he's the choice of the people that matter, mainly a republican dominated supreme court?

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

The court isn't really Republican.

 

There's three liberals, three conservatives, and three swing votes.

 

Rehnquist (sp?) rallied the troops well that evening they appointed Bush president.

[Zorin Industries 0]

You have to be a REALLY big jerk to get Hollywood to boo an anti-Republican, anti-war speech.

-=Mike

Too be honest I thought he was being booed for bringing a hefty dose of reality to the Oscar's, how dare this man interrupt our mastebatory Holywood love fest.

 

Personaly, I was just annoyed that Peter O'Toole didn't get blind drunk and go on a rant when he was giving his Oscar.

[Guest bob_barron]

That's what the Oscars is though- it's a night for Hollywood to suck it's own dick.

 

It's NOT a night to go up there and act like a jackass while trying to be some sort of 'man of the people'

[Guest DrTom]

It was a close race no doubt. However, he lost the popular vote. Would you still say that he was the choice of the people...

That would mean something if we elected presidents based on the popular vote. Since we don't, however, I don't really see what this attempts to prove. Bill Clinton did not receive 50% of the popular vote either time he was elected; was he not "the choice of the people" also?

 

Three independent recounts were done, by three different newspapers, of all the Florida votes. In every single recount, George Bush won. Of course, Florida wouldn't have mattered at all had Gore been able to win *his own bloody state*, but c'est la vie.

 

The Supreme Court, which is not dominated by Republicans, voted to simply enforce and uphold the existing election and recount laws, which the Florida Supreme Court seemed more than eager to disregard as long as it was Gore doing the complaining.

 

Btw, I really dislike having to rehash the damn election every six months.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

In every single recount, George Bush won.

 

Not true. A few of the independant studies, which recounted all of Florida (as opposed to the requested counties by the dems), had Gore winning by a few percentage points.

 

I digress, though, because it's not even remotely what this topic is about.

[Guest NoCalMike]

The recounts never accounted for the votes and/or ballots in question. They just kept revoting the same ones over and over. Also, everything was sealed up shortly after with a 20 year moritorium(sp?). So one day when it is all sorted out it will be a moot point.

[Guest Vyce]

The court isn't really Republican.

 

There's three liberals, three conservatives, and three swing votes.

 

Rehnquist (sp?) rallied the troops well that evening they appointed Bush president.

Wow.

 

You didn't seem to be this bitter and cynical a few weeks ago.

 

We really beat the nice outta you, didn't we?

[Guest NoCalMike]

The court isn't really Republican.

 

There's three liberals, three conservatives, and three swing votes.

 

Rehnquist (sp?) rallied the troops well that evening they appointed Bush president.

Oh, so true.

[Guest Vyce]

I love liberal conspiracy theories.

 

Anyway, to remind us this was originally a thread about Michael Moore:

 

Michael Moore Making Next Film: 'Saddam and Me'

(2003-03-27) -- Academy-award winning filmmaker Michael Moore said his next documentary will chronicle how Iraq's lax gun-control laws have turned a peaceful Islamic republic into a cauldron of death and destruction.

 

The film, "Saddam and Me," will capture Mr. Moore's misadventures and witty banter as he attempts to ask the Iraqi president to ban personal ownership of firearms.

 

"Every nation that allows individuals to own guns will eventually wind up like Iraq," said Mr. Moore. "The gun culture encourages violence. Most Iraqis own personal firearms, and look what's happening over there. Children are dying. It's just like Columbine."

 

---Scrappleface.com

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

...How is that a conspiracy theory?

 

It's been well documented in several books which I don't feel like citing right now, since... after all... you wouldn't read them anyway...