To bps, anglesault and those who think hhh is not

[Guest Steve J. Rogers]

Think about it for a moment:

 

Yeah HHH is a much more effective heel, but then again so was Flair, but this is the same situation as the Buff Bagwel return, the fans WANT to cheer a returning star, wheither they LEFT as a heel or face, ITS FUCKING HEARTWARMING TO SEE A GUY GO FROM BEING ON THE FUCKING SHELF AND BEING ABLE TO MAKE IT BACK TO THE FUCKING TOP OF THE FUCKING MOUNTAIN

 

Doesn't matter if its scripted like wrestling, or real sports like baseball, football, ect.

 

Plus with ALL THE false turns with HHH over his run the fans have been waiting, WAITING for a HHH face turn.  At least one chance to see him run with the ball as a face.  If they DIDN'T do that after he came back from the injury I gaurantee that most of the people on the net would be screaming that they blew their oppertunity to have HHH EVER get credibility as a face.  THATS the bottom line.

 

It happened with Bagwell, WCW blew their shot of ever making him popular by turning him heel after he came back from the neck injury.  Its disengenous, and it makes it seem the whole injury could have been a work.

 

Geez, can anyone here say ONE GOOD #### GOOD THING ABOUT THE GAME?  EVER?

 

Steve

[Guest MARTYEWR]

I wouldn't say it's the same as the Buff Bagwell return, since HHH is a much more high-profile star than Bagwell ever will be.

 

My take on HHH: I don't think his face run is bombing (since he got a great reaction in Ottawa on Tuesday), but I think I know what some fans are upset about. HHH was in a killer groove in 2000 and kept on putting MOTYC after MOTYC. Right now, he's still good, but people are comparing him to his 2000 levels and saying "Well, he's slow now, his interviews are boring, and he hardly sells!" Most of that I do agree with. ####, in 2000, he let people kick out of the Pedigree a lot.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's still good. But I don't think he'll EVER top what he did in 2000, and people want a repeat of it, but nostalgia doesn't always work.

[Guest]

They turned Kanyon heel right after he got tossed off the cage too.

[Guest mastermind]

I read a post by bps about all the things that happened to Trips since he has returned. You know what he is right. Trips should be much more over than this. He isn't bombing as a face, but come on he is getting eaten alive in facedom by Hogan, Rock, and Austin. We shall see in the States though. Don't worry I smell a Kliq reunion coming. You're right though fans would have screamed the wwf would have dropped the ball by not giving Trips a chance. I sort of agree although I will brag and say I told ya so about Triple H getting overshadowed by Hall and Nash and soon HBK if he ever comes back. Maybe that's why we haven't seen him yet. Bagwell aint event in Trips league. It also makes more sense with the current face landscape for Triple H to turn heel. He was the best heel champion in a LONG time. He would be pitted against the top three faces in history. Money is to be made from that brother! I think a heel Triple H without Stephanie in the Kliq would be something fresh. His interviews ARE boring I can't defend him there. If you also compare him at this moment to 2000 he is a shell of his old self. I'm pulling for him though because he's the champ.

[Guest Brian]

Actually, I'm surprised HHH was kept over. They totally took any momentum out of him winning the undisputed title and stood away from the pay-off of feuding with Steph. The thing is, a lot of good things happened for Triple H but they never really hyped them or gave them a good build. They expected Triple H, playing a baby face for the first time in about three and a half years, to be able to capitalize on these situations on his own. Another reason the booking team fails.

[Guest mastermind]

Good point as dog poop would do that to a guy.

[Guest muzanisa]

I was totally into HHH as a heel, as a face he just doesn't seem as engaging. I hope there is something that sparks it off for him. But like Flair, Piper, Jericho and Rock he's better as a heel and the majority of his time should be spent as a heel.

[Guest notJames]

Just a thought:

 

Both HHH and the Undertaker have pop-inducing entrances (big-time music, lengthy entrance, heavy-duting lighting and such...) but eventually the crowd noise dies down once they start their mediocre wrestling.

 

Now they're going to be involved in a feud for the belts.

 

I see another dead Main Event ala HHH/Jericho at WMX8, with more focus on (if this happens) Rock/Hogan vs. nWo, with everyone wondering which [icon will turn on whom first, 'cuz you know they won't be watching for the wrestling.

 

These are interesting times we live in...

[Guest converge241]

HHH is over as a face, he's just down the totem pole behind Rock, Austin, Hogan, and about equal with RVD.

It is a great story how he came back and it did create babyface heat, but it faded fast from those inital levels. He's much better as a heel, in crowd reaction and in ring style. He would be higher up if he used that same sympathy for the recovery and stabbed the fans in the back and turned on them. He would be instant number one heel. His time for a face turn was after the Austin WMX7 turn, but they balked on that.

[Guest Brian]

I'd just like to add my thought on my HHH ordeal, with a little of a spoiler:

 

Since X-Pac joins the NWO on Thursday, I'd have them announce that they have another member and have a contract under Vince McMahon and no one else. That way Vince signs Hogan, Rock, X-Pac, Nash, Hall, and X-Pac. Well, Vince also has to sign HHH. HHH gets a later pick, which puts him in that bitter mood. Then when HHH loses in the main by Jericho pinning Steph, HHH goes straight to Vince, then to the NWO as Flair diputes HHH's and Vince's claims to half of the undisputed championship. I'd have the last pre-split send off being all those guys taking out Flair while he wrestles Jericho, and Jericho pins Flair. On Vince's SmackDown a week and a half after the draft, right after the RAW with Jericho vs. Flair, Undertaker rambles on about how he was beginning to gain a mutual respect for Flair, blah, blah, blah, and challenges HHH. We don't want to see it, but a main event of Outsiders vs. Hogan/Rock and HHH/Undertaker will probably draw.

[Guest]

I wouldn't call Triple H's face turn a failure but like some of you said on here,  there is just too many "Big" things going on right in the WWF. nWo, Rock/Hogan, and even Steph's content, annoying feud with HHH that is killing him.

 

Some guys characters are just better off one way playing the heel or face. The Beginning of Austin's heel turn was a Failure, Angle's Face turn was DEFINITELY a Failure. Some argue that Jericho's Heel turn is a failure but just like HHH's Face turn there is a lot going on right now that is over shadowing him. Once again, Stephanie McMahon in Jericho's Storylines. Time will tell with Triple H, but I think it's safe to say he's on top of his "GAME" as a heel.

[Guest notJames]

That seems a bit convoluted, especially the part about Flair wrestling Jericho for the title.

 

They're probably going with the tried and true to book UT vs. HHH. UT wants respect. The champ gets the most respect (traditionally, anyway). UT challenges HHH for the belt to get that respect.

 

He'll most likely interfere in the match on Raw next Monday in some way to get himself into the title picture. HHH joining the nWo would be impractical in that they spent all this time building his sympathetic face aura only to piss it away just so he can join his Kliq buddies.

 

I'm going with Occam's razor on this one.

[Guest dreamer420]

HHH works as good as anyone when he's a heel.  The face turn was inevitable, and it would have been pretty hard for the WWF to make the fans boo! a guy who has been injured for 8 months.  And we all know how bad that injury, so to see him make a full return to the ring and win the title is great IMO.

[Guest Kinetic]

If everything we've heard about Triple H is true, how long is he going to tolerate not being involved in the biggest angle in the company?  I'd say we're only a few tepid face pops away from the inevitable heel turn.

[Guest]

I posted my commentary on Triple H and his face turn last night. Apparently it was not interesting enough to remain on the board however as I no longer see it.

 

Needless to say, I was defending his run with the straps as well as his ability to draw heat as a face.

 

I think that you can see from a majority of the responses that you recieved to your post that people respect Triple H and are willing to give him a shot on top. He just happens to be the favored whipping boy of the moment.

[Guest Brian]

"HHH works as good as anyone when he's a heel.  The face turn was inevitable, and it would have been pretty hard for the WWF to make the fans boo! a guy who has been injured for 8 months.  And we all know how bad that injury, so to see him make a full return to the ring and win the title is great IMO. "

 

I would have been fine with this had the WWF paid enough attention to it. Triple H has been injured for eight months. Jericho put him out of action. His "wife" abandoned him. He worked his ass off. Got back to being a peak performer. He's going to headline WrestleMania for the first time in a singles match. He's putting everything on the line.

 

How hard was that?

[Guest teke184]

My take:

 

He got a GREAT reaction when he came back from his injury.  However, that reaction pretty much disappeared until after Wrestlemania when two crowds that were super-hot to begin with gave him a huge ovation.

 

He can take what he's been given to work with and make a good face run with the title out of it.  BUT, if it had been almost anyone else, the WWF would have pulled the plug on his main event appearance in Wrestlemania.  

 

The real question is where HHH goes from here and, if it's a feud with Taker, this won't go well for ANY of us.  The only positive is that HHH can pull the job-card on Taker and go over cleanly as a receipt for Taker's win at WM X-7.

[Guest goodhelmet]

I think the biggest problem with Trips and his face run is that he holds the undisputed championship. He is clearly not the same performer who held it previously. Why should someone who isn't half the wrestler he used to be get the title back so shortly? That just is bad business sense. And if he's only you're 4th or 5th most over face then he certainly doesn't deserve the belt. The WWF could have easily had the Trips-Steph storyline play out without getting the titles involved. In fact, I think everyone knew Trips was getting the title at Mania because of past accomplishments (and for fucking Stephanie), NOT because he deserved it in his current run.

[Guest]

I'm not a big HHH fan (not at all), but I really dont think it's his fault that his face run so far has been such a flop, more than anything I think it's just that the program him and Jericho had was so poorly booked that any momentum that either man had was killed.

 

I also think it is pretty clear he feels somewhat uncomfortable in the "face style" of wrestling, but maybe he'll get better. I figure 3 months from now if things aren't turned around for him then yeah, it's time to make him a heel again.

[Guest dreamer420]

I don't think HHH is half the wrestler he once was.  He seems a little slower since returning but I think once he gets wrestling as frequently as he did during his last title reign he'll be back to normal soon.

[Guest Brian]

You guys really aren't giving the guy enough time. He's only been back two and a half months. In took Austin, who was in better cardio shape and had always been a better wrestler, nearly four months to get to his run.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"You guys really aren't giving the guy enough time. He's only been back two and a half months. In took Austin, who was in better cardio shape and had always been a better wrestler, nearly four months to get to his run."

 

great! Take all the time he needs but why does he have to be the friggin champion? This goes back to my point. If he isn't at the level of his past self or the other wrestlers, he should not hold the championship. Let him feud with his wife and create a feud for the title elsewhere.

[Guest Brian]

They had that built in comeback story and the fact that Triple H, who  was the top player in the WWF for quite a while, hadn't had a one-on-one match main event WrestleMania. They could have done it right, and he'd make a fine champion.

 

Anyways, I was discussing wrestling shape and not actual drawing and storylines. I think under the right circumstances he should have been champ, but they totally blew the feud and that could have given him a ton of momentum.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Goodhelmet hit my point on the head.

 

The guy is one of the most cheered faces in the company...I know that.

 

But he has been positioned as the top guy...and he isn't nearly enough over to warrant it.

 

I wouldn't hate HHH if he had taken the time to feud with heels for a few more months (or whenever his face pops actually kicked it up, and he got back into ring shape)

 

But that's not what he did.

 

I feel completely justified in questioning the overness of a guy who holds the undisputed title.  With the push he got...he should be the most over man in the company.

 

But he's not even close.

 

Someone mentioned that he's behind Hogan, Rock and Austin.

 

That's true.

 

And as for being about even with RVD...isn't that kind of sad?

 

RVD was depushed for the first 6 weeks or so while HHH was getting a monster push...and even now...RVD gets about one tenth of the tv time...and yet they are equal?

 

I thikn that tells the tale more than anything.

 

Again...I could have given HHH all the time in the world...until he ended WrestleMania with the belts...now he doesn't deserve the time anymore...he's as high up as he can go...and I have to wonder why?

[Guest Anglesault]

I love when my name is in a subject.

 

, ITS FUCKING HEARTWARMING TO SEE A GUY GO FROM BEING ON THE FUCKING SHELF AND BEING ABLE TO MAKE IT BACK TO THE FUCKING TOP OF THE FUCKING MOUNTAIN

 

THEN MAYBE THE FUCKING FANS WILL FUCKING REACT FUCKING WHEN FUCKING HHH FUCKING COMES FUCKING OUT FUCKING FOR HIS FUCKING MATCHES FUCKING INSTEAD OF FUCKING GOING "HERE'S THE FUCKING GUY FUCKING WHO'S FUCKING BEEN FUCKING SHOVED FUCKING DOWN FUCKING OUR FUCKING THROATS." HE FUCKING IS FUCKING THE FUCKING FIFTH FUCKING MOST FUCKING OVER FUCKING FACE FUCKING, BEHIND FUCKING AUSTIN, FUCKING ROCK, FUCKING HOGAN AND FUCKING RVD. OH FUCKING YEAH, I FUCKING HAVE TO FUCKING ADD FUCKING SOMETHING: FUCK!

 

 

 

Plus with ALL THE false turns with HHH over his run the fans have been waiting, WAITING for a HHH face turn.  At least one chance to see him run with the ball as a face.  If they DIDN'T do that after he came back from the injury I gaurantee that most of the people on the net would be screaming that they blew their oppertunity to have HHH EVER get credibility as a face.

 

And he, to quote HHH himself, dropped the ball. The fans just don't buy him as a face.

 

 

Geez, can anyone here say ONE GOOD #### GOOD THING ABOUT THE GAME?  EVER?

 

Yes, (the WWF spin machine says) He's INTENSE!

 

[Guest chirs3]

ITS FUCKING HEARTWARMING TO SEE A GUY GO FROM BEING ON THE FUCKING SHELF AND BEING ABLE TO MAKE IT BACK TO THE FUCKING TOP OF THE FUCKING MOUNTAIN!

 

*laughs at the use of the term "FUCKING HEARTWARMING"*

 

Smells like a Made-for-TV-movie to me...

[Guest The Vanilla Midget]

problem is that if trips turns heel, which he *has* to do, then they have too many ME heels, and need some more faces.  and we have seen how inept they are at main event turns in general lately havent we...

[Guest]

I'm going with Occam's razor on this one.

Occam was demoted to OVW after the botched InVasion angle...

[Guest saturnmark4life]

Firstly, anglesault, who is that FREAK on your avatar? i honestly don't know. I found 'fucking heartwarming' cute as well. HHH has fans, but he ain't over as a face. Part of the reason he got cheered as a heel was because he was a cool heel, but wrestling against heels he dosen't quite work.

[Guest Anglesault]

CHRISTIAN! I can't find a Kurt anywhere.