Are peeps too picky?

[Guest Banky]

... I didn't pay for it. Sheesh. My problem lies with peoples incredibly low standards on this board and how the WWE gets away with being mediocre..

 

People compare the WWE to how *bad* it could be rather than how *good* it could be. If it "didn't suck" then that's good enough for them. The potential for WM to be good given the current roster and money the WWE has is much greater than the potential for it to be bad, and no one seems to care that the WWE is doing business half-assed.

But I loved the show. Many loved the show. I don't think it was due to looking at the cup as half full than half empty.

 

Rudo, did you see the show? Or are you just estimating it sucked?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I didn't see the show, but I heard it was good. People who's opinions I respect said it was good.

 

So I believe them. I'll probably buy it when it comes out on DVD.

 

I'm just saying most people who are complaining are doing so because of what I said before.

 

They know that as good as the show may have been it did nothing to fix the booking problems that are keeping the WWE from being great instead of just good.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I never said it sucked. I said it wasn't as good as it should have been. I am holding WM and the WWE at a *higher standard* than I would for every other PPV given the circumstances.

 

You "loved it"? What did you love about it? "You were entertained greatly" - that's fabulous. "Entertainment", however, really is subjective and fleeting. You may not be as entertained by it next week, or next month, or next year as you were Sunday - and therefore your opinion of the event would change, no?. Is that true satisfaction?

[HurriShane 0]

I thought the show was awesome with pretty much everybody bringing their A game. With my markout moment of the night, and the year so far, being Piper's appearance.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

We're picky because in the back of our minds we know that the WWE has problems keeping a streak of good work going due to the bad booking nipping what ever is good in the bud before it can really get going.

[Guest Banky]

You "loved it"? What did you love about it? "You were entertained greatly" - that's fabulous. "Entertainment", however, really is subjective and fleeting. You may not be as entertained by it next week, or next month, or next year as you were Sunday - and therefore your opinion of the event would change, no?. Is that true satisfaction?

What do you mean I may not be entertained by it next week? I'm not some fickle bastard whose mind changes after seeing how others felt towards the show. I enjoyed watching it. That doesn't happen very often, and I value it when it does. Will Piper's run in be less next week/month/year? No, I liked it. End of story. I don't understand what was NOT to like about it honestly. Unless I am talking about people who count the duration of restholds and studies the psychology like a chemistry textbook. Thats not who I am. Why act all bitter and jaded? I don't take myself that seriously nor do I take wrestlnig that seriously either. Bitching and whining, no I am not accusing you of it, just gives people unnecessary grief. There is a reason why the Simpsons created the comic book guy, because he defines people who all walks of life who takes things to seriously whether it be movies, wrestling, comics, Star Wars, music, ect...And know what? I find that character quite pathetic...I don't want to be anything like that. 78% of the people on this board are. Yes, they all sound that pathetic.

 

I'll pass.

 

Push Cena.

 

But Banky, he can't work.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I bitch cause I still hold true to the idea of "why be good when you can be better"

 

I don't take that too far though. I think it applies to people who are blantantly not using their full potential.

 

Yes WrestleMania was great and will be remembered fondly, but it's what they do with the aftermath that will determine whether we continue to bitch or not.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

How long did it take you to write that Banky? How long did it take you to write your lil bitchfest? You obviously do take it seriously or else you wouldn't be here. You just don't take it personally - which I do. And can you blame me? I've been watching the WWF as long as I can remember. I have given them thousands of hours of my time - a very big chunk of my life - and do they care? Nope. Do they care about you? Nope. I act bitter and jaded because I simply am.... and the way I see it is that it's the WWE's fault and they deserve every single negative comment they get.

 

"I liked it" has to be the most thoughtless thing someone can say - because quite frankly, it takes no thought at all. I like thinking, it's a curse I suppose. But if you like being thoughtless, you do that. I am not here bashing you for doing it. I like bitching, it allows me to vent my frustration, yet I get bashed for doing so. Something wrong here?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Shit, I knew there was a reason I put that in my sig

[Guest Banky]

How long did it take you to write that Banky? How long did it take you to write your lil bitchfest? You obviously do take it seriously or else you wouldn't be here. You just don't take it personally - which I do. And can you blame me? I've been watching the WWF as long as I can remember. I have given them thousands of hours of my time - a very big chunk of my life - and do they care? Nope. Do they care about you? Nope. I act bitter and jaded because I simply am.... and the way I see it is that it's the WWE's fault and they deserve every single negative comment they get.

 

"I liked it" has to be the most thoughtless thing someone can say - because quite frankly, it takes no thought at all. I like thinking, it's a curse I suppose. But if you like being thoughtless, you do that. I am not here bashing you for doing it. I like bitching, it allows me to vent my frustration, yet I get bashed for doing. Something wrong here?

You take wrestling personally? How can I debate with someone as irrational as that. You take something that is FAKE, FANTASY, and CHOREOGRAPHED seriously. Gimme a break. I like to discuss wrestling, but under no circumstances do I take anything they do personally. I've watched wrestling for quite a long time as well, but I must have a different relationship with it than you.

 

I shared my feelings in the 'Bitchfest' thread...which I did to take myself too seriously, BTW. I say I liked it, so what? I am an embecile for it? How can I debate anything with you? It is a no win situation. You are clearly in a dellusional state in which you have invested far too much of an emotional attachment to the product to see anything clearly. Thats sad. Get a grip fo reality, pal. There are other things in this world that deserve that intense of a commitment - not wrestling. Remember, its fantasy...its choreographed. IT.IS.NOT.REAL. Honestly, do you still believe in the Easter bunny? Golly, its all relative. Ultimately its pointless to whine and complain. It'll have no bearing on your life, so why get in a tizzy.

 

Oh and Paco, I am on this thread as I type an essay. I keep checking back to see how can be enlightened and/or educated by your obvious insanity.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

I heavily enjoyed the show. I even dug HHH as a worker, as he seems to have actually been busting his ass. Let's just hope he'll continue to do so. Actually, with Goldberg coming, I guess he'll have to bust his ass (since Goldberg is about 10x more marketable than HHH).

 

'Taker's match sucked, but that's to have been expected. He hasn't had a truly good WM match in...how long? About 9 years? Well, I dug Sid/'Taker from WM13, but it was just a ** affair...which I suppose is a classic considering who was involved...

 

I REALLY dug Booker's selling of his knee, and HHH collapsing after getting the desperation cover.

[Guest Choken One]

I would say that HHH/Taker was a solid ***1/4 match (The plodding WALKing hurt it a little)...But other then that...Undertaker never had a good Mania match...

[Guest Banky]

I heavily enjoyed the show. I even dug HHH as a worker, as he seems to have actually been busting his ass. Let's just hope he'll continue to do so. Actually, with Goldberg coming, I guess he'll have to bust his ass (since Goldberg is about 10x more marketable than HHH).

 

'Taker's match sucked, but that's to have been expected. He hasn't had a truly good WM match in...how long? About 9 years? Well, I dug Sid/'Taker from WM13, but it was just a ** affair...which I suppose is a classic considering who was involved...

 

I REALLY dug Booker's selling of his knee, and HHH collapsing after getting the desperation cover.

You aren't a fan.

 

You said you 'enjoyed' the show. How idiotic.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

It's hard not to get just a little attatched to something you've watched for so many years.

 

I wouldn't cry myself to sleep over anything that happened and I wouldn't let it ruin my day.

 

When you've seen the glory years of wrestling come and go it's hard to like the crap.

[Guest Banky]

It's hard not to get just a little attatched to something you've watched for so many years.

 

I wouldn't cry myself to sleep over anything that happened and I wouldn't let it ruin my day.

 

When you've seen the glory years of wrestling come and go it's hard to like the crap.

Do you take it personally? When they misuse Chris Benoit, are you offended? At the end of the day, is it something you 'TRULY' care about? Not me.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

You take wrestling personally? How can I debate with someone as irrational as that. You take something that is FAKE, FANTASY, and CHOREOGRAPHED seriously.

Banky, to an extent, I take wrestling personally as well. I could go into a very in-depth rant on how I feel professional wrestling, when performed properly, outdoes any other form of performance art known to man, and how it's the basics of classic theatre with a modern and somewhat odd twist, but I'd rather just say a few sentences.

 

I've invested far too much of my time and my money to NOT take wrestling personally. I guess I could be considered a wrestling geek, as I'll usually bring up wrestling in every day conversation, and at some times I can even draw a comparison between my actual life and wrestling angles (pathetic, eh?). I can never, will never, nor will I ever want to, take wrestling as anything less than my definition of entertainment. I've grown to feel a pseudo-bond between myself and the wrestlers I've watched evolve since I started to become as heavily emersed in wrestling as I have been for the past 5 1/2 years. And to see the same wrestlers I used to cheer and hollar and mark-out for be treated like crap by poor booking, or to see the very sport of professional wrestling be considered a third-rate sitcom/soap opera by some hack writers, hurts me. It hurts my pride.

 

I don't know if it's the same for the rest of you, or even anybody else, but I, myself, do feel a personal connection with wrestling as a whole. Hence, I can take it personally. I'm not sure if it's the same for Rudo, but I know that's how I see it.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

You aren't a fan.

 

You said you 'enjoyed' the show. How idiotic.

To say I'm not a fan because I enjoyed something that had no less than 5 very good matches (Mystero/Hardy, Team Angle/Los Guerreros/Benoit & Rhyno, HBK/Jericho, Austin/Rock, and Angle/Lesnar) is more idiotic than saying I enjoyed it.

[Guest Banky]

You aren't a fan.

 

You said you 'enjoyed' the show.  How idiotic.

To say I'm not a fan because I enjoyed something that had no less than 5 very good matches (Mystero/Hardy, Team Angle/Los Guerreros/Benoit & Rhyno, HBK/Jericho, Austin/Rock, and Angle/Lesnar) is more idiotic than saying I enjoyed it.

I was being facetious.

[Guest Sakura]

I take it personally in the sense that Vince, Crips, ect. are killing my interest in a hobby that I used to love.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

It's just like how people got emotional when shows like Cheers and Mash ended. They got emotional because they watched that show from the beginning and were sad to see it go.

 

Does that make them pathetic? No.

 

I have many other things that occupy my time and emotions. Wrestling isn't even near the top of my list.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

And Sakura sums up in one sentence what I tried to lay out in 3 paragraphs. DAMN YOU!

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Do you take it personally? When they misuse Chris Benoit, are you offended? At the end of the day, is it something you 'TRULY' care about? Not me.

Well, I can't say that I wasn't offended when I paid for the Rumble webcast, saw Benoit's ovation (which you tried to downplay afterwards), then... well.. nothing come from it.

 

I just like to see a satisfying return on investment, whether it be financial or emotional, that's all.

[Guest Choken One]

See there...When you found Benoit/Angle emotionally statisfying...I found Jericho/HBK emotionally statisfying because I admired those two guys...It was a incredible thing to see my Current God and my former favorite go balls out in a thriller...

 

When i watched that match last night...I didn't give ONE fuck about Politics...I was in for the match and the match alone. FUCK Politics. Fuck Smarkdom. Just Statisfy me damn it is all I ask and I got that...Just like You got yours with Benoit and Angle...

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I haven't liked HBK in years, and I have to say that HBK/Y2J was MOTN myself. Much respect goes to both.

[Guest Bruiser Chong]

You take wrestling personally? How can I debate with someone as irrational as that. You take something that is FAKE, FANTASY, and CHOREOGRAPHED seriously. Gimme a break. I like to discuss wrestling, but under no circumstances do I take anything they do personally. I've watched wrestling for quite a long time as well, but I must have a different relationship with it than you.

 

I'm sorry, but this just sounds too odd coming from someone who has made himself a fixture in the View Askew Universe for as long as I can remember. So what if he takes it personally? It's not like a movie where they take a couple hours of your life. When it comes to wrestling, you're dedicating yourself to something for a very long time. It's not even like a TV series where you aren't watching all-year-round either. To be a real fan, you've gotta dedicate time and money and as stupid as that may sound, a lot of people here do just that, me being one of them. Watching wrestling is almost like bein in a relationship, so it's only right to feel a little pissed off when the other end isn't doing as well as you know they're capable off. Most of the people here who say that don't take wrestling personally just a little bit is full of shit.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

You take wrestling personally? How can I debate with someone as irrational as that.

 

How is it irrational? I have spent countless hours of my life watching WWE programming. Here's the thing with life - it's finite. It is limited. The things I do in my life I tend to take personally. So when I see that those countless hours of my life mean NOTHING to very thing I gave my time to, I get personally insulted. The more time I give, the more I am insulted. And you know what, I gave A LOT of my time.

 

You take something that is FAKE, FANTASY, and CHOREOGRAPHED seriously. Gimme a break.

 

Different people take different things seriously. We all do it. People take Film, Theatre, Art, Music seriously. How is this any different? Just because it's seen as "low brow" in the public eye? I you like something you tend to get attatched to it. You put an investment in it; be it monetary or emotionally. I like Wrestling. I love Wrestling. At it's best Wrestling equals any work of art out there and a great satisfaction can be had, at it's worst... you get the WWE. It's pretty much well like that. To write it off as "Fake, Fantasy, and Choreographed" shows it very little respect. Quite frankly, I'm not surprised hearing it from you.

 

I like to discuss wrestling, but under no circumstances do I take anything they do personally. I've watched wrestling for quite a long time as well, but I must have a different relationship with it than you.

 

So you don't take it personally when they forget about their own history or even worse, CHANGE it to fit their current view? The history that you watched? The history that you spent a part of your life dedicated to? That doesn't mean anything to you?

 

I shared my feelings in the 'Bitchfest' thread...which I did to take myself too seriously, BTW.

 

Ah, so it was a social commentary hid under the guise of a lengthy review.

 

I say I liked it, so what? I am an embecile for it?

 

No, I said that saying "I liked it" takes little thought. You seem to look down on thought as you like to point out how you don't care about psychology or selling or anything of the sort. What makes a good match good isn't just if you "liked it" it's the tangible things within that made it good. Things LIKE psychology and selling and pace and workrate and all these terms that you identify with being a Purosnob or "someone with standards".

 

How can I debate anything with you? It is a no win situation. You are clearly in a dellusional state in which you have invested far too much of an emotional attachment to the product to see anything clearly. Thats sad. Get a grip fo reality, pal.

 

... And then there are people you get into name calling.

 

If you can't get an emotional attachment to something after 14 years then what can you get attached to?

 

There are other things in this world that deserve that intense of a commitment - not wrestling.

 

Uh huh. And who says that other things don't get that intense of a commitment. Wrestling is not my life, but rather it is a part of it. Would my life be different without it? You betcha.

 

Remember, its fantasy...its choreographed. IT.IS.NOT.REAL. Honestly, do you still believe in the Easter bunny? Golly, its all relative.

 

But the time I give to it is very real. The emotion and satisfaction that it gives me are very real. The money that I spend on it is very real.

 

Ultimately its pointless to whine and complain.

 

That's not true at all. If there was no one complaining then nothing would ever change.

 

 

It'll have no bearing on your life, so why get in a tizzy.

 

Will it have a bearing on my day-to-day life? Nope. Will it have a bearing on the 4/6 hours a week that I spend watching WWE television? Yep. Do those hours add up over the weeks and months? Oh yeah.

[Guest Banky]

Give me a break. I watch movies, I enjoy movies, but I sure don't take them personally. I watch wrestling to relax, to unwind, to forget about life for 2 hours. If they have a crappy show, who cares? So what? It only takes up a minor segment of my life, so whats the bother? There are many other hard pressing issues that are far greater than wrestling. I've invested time into it, I've also invested time into playing dodge ball at school - I never took that personally. There is a difference between enjoying something, and taking it seriously. A big difference. The only things I take personally is the stuff that affects me directly. My family, school, friends, work, ect...stuff on TV, radio, ect...has no bearing on my life. The only stuff that I do take personally that affects me indirectly is extreme issues such as war, and other social happenings of that magnitutde. Wrestling doesn't fill that quota.

 

Oh, and I said I liked it...but I did explain WHY I liked everything previously. Why are you trying to take that way from me? I'm not gonna rehash my thoughts on every thread. You've read my opinion, so I fail to understand the issue. I have friends who watch wrestling who don't know a thing about workrate or pace or psychology but their opinion is as valid as yours. These 'intanigibles' you named really have no bearing on the average fan. They like spotfests, they like surprise run-ins, they hardcore matches - that stuff is more important in their eyes as the stuff you mentioned. Its not about standards, its about what makes each person tick. I'm not going to be a pretentious bastard and try to act like everyone else on this board. I enjoy being able to formulate my own opinions, away from the typical smart mark terminology. Why would I go against my gut instinct? I liked Hogan/McMahon because of the Piper run-in. Because of Vince jumping off a ladder. Because it had the crowd in it. Because it had a drama that drew me into the match. I'm not gonna discredit that by saying "gosh golly gee, there wasn't much structure there...Hogan didn't sell his injuries much" or any of that garbage.

 

If wrestling takes up 4/4 hours of your weekly watching, why still follow it? This "I've invested too much time" is fucking rubbish. God damn, this isn't a fucking heroin addiction where you can't stop. You have the choice, and you keep coming back. YOU are the sucker. YOU are giving them ratings by watching. And if you aren't watching it, than you shouldn't complain as you can't judge for yourself that it sucks.

 

Bruiser, the VA insults on me are quite tired. In fact I haven't shilled any of their flicks in the longest time. Please brush up on your info before trying to slag me. I have the name 'Banky Edwards' - I must be in love with it. Even if I still DO quote their movies, it doesn't mean I take them personally. Its just something I do to pass the time. I could care less man. Life's too short, why worry about the most trivial issues such as movies, music, and wrestling? Its called a life, I value living my own life than living vicariously through fantasy.

 

All of the complaining in the world won't change Vince McMahon, haven't any of you learned that yet? It won't happen. So save your breath.

[Guest Sakura]

I don't think anyone is saying pro-wrestling is the most important thing in their life or anything like that. It's just that watching WWE used to be a hobby that I loved and now I am losing interest.

 

I've never understood the mentality of "if you don't like it, stop watching". That doesn't help the problem. I want to watch WWE. I want very badly to enjoy the product. For the past few months I haven't been watching. I catch Smackdown occasionally, but that's it. It hasn't really helped. I still want to watch and I still cling to a tiny bit of hope that one day it will be good again so I can go back to watching.

[Guest SP-1]

- Booker T and Jericho have ZERO VALUE as wrestlers. They were beaten 1-2-3 in the middle of the ring at the biggest show of them all.

Yes, because the SPORT of professional wrestling rests on win/loss records.

 

 

 

I feel sorry for the people that put so much stock in that. After RAW tonight, I don't think Booker os hurt and I KNOW that Jericho isn't. Like I've said before. This is the middle of the story and you're trying to judge the end. Doesn't work that way.

 

But be miserable. I'll enjoy myself.

[Guest Sakura]

The problem is we've been told this same stuff over and over again. We've been waiting for too long.