Are peeps too picky?

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Win/Losses do matter in the overall scheme. Marks will quit cheering if somone jobs constantly. Anyone remember Lex Luger? I mean you people that are saying that win losses don't matter....are you deaf, blind, or stupid?

Oh and for anyone that is jumping over someone else for not liking the show.......

WE CAN HAVE OUR OWN OPINION TO ASSHOLE!

[Guest SP-1]

Oh yeah, because you are in the minority. Please. We get bitched at twice as much for marking out for HBK or Goldberg. Just fucking deal with an OPINION that counters your own.

 

Now. Let's have a look at the "waiting" too long argument. It looked like HBK was set to job to RVD. HBK didn't go over in that match. HUNTER HEARTS HELMSLEY went over in that match, wins and losses be damned. HBK had little to do with that. What happened there was what always happened there: the one smark mentality that I truly see support for on my TV. HHH's politics.

 

With Jericho, it's the middle of the feud. It was WreslteMania, and probably Shawn's last. Notice of all the main event matches they were at the bottom? Yo think a politics-driven HBK would have allowed that? Would a politics-driven HBK have allowed Jericho to get his heat back? Nope. Did HBK and Chris Jericho respect each other enough to put on what was arguably MOTN? Hell yes, sir. But Jericho's being held down by HBK. Sure.

[Guest Downhome]

Oh yeah, because you are in the minority. Please. We get bitched at twice as much for marking out for HBK or Goldberg. Just fucking deal with an OPINION that counters your own.

 

Now. Let's have a look at the "waiting" too long argument. It looked like HBK was set to job to RVD. HBK didn't go over in that match. HUNTER HEARTS HELMSLEY went over in that match, wins and losses be damned. HBK had little to do with that. What happened there was what always happened there: the one smark mentality that I truly see support for on my TV. HHH's politics.

 

With Jericho, it's the middle of the feud. It was WreslteMania, and probably Shawn's last. Notice of all the main event matches they were at the bottom? Yo think a politics-driven HBK would have allowed that? Would a politics-driven HBK have allowed Jericho to get his heat back? Nope. Did HBK and Chris Jericho respect each other enough to put on what was arguably MOTN? Hell yes, sir. But Jericho's being held down by HBK. Sure.

You speak the truth, just be carefull...one can be put to death for doing so.

[Guest Sakura]

I was talking about HHH and Booker.

 

I'm willing to wait and see with HBK and Jericho.

[Guest SP-1]

HHH/Booker was confusing but is apparently also continuing.

[Guest bob_barron]

You speak the truth, just be carefull...one can be put to death for doing so.

 

Oh boo hoo. Most people back up what they say when people insult HBK and Goldberg. If you don't like that well then defend your guys better.

 

HBK proved how much of a worthless piece of shit (and I apologise to shit for comparing it to Shawn) by not jobbing to Chris Jericho. Shawn doesn't need to go over anyone anymore and the loss just makes Jericho look like the biggest loser on the planet.

 

I don't want him to win at Backlash. The whole feud was built so at Wrestlemania Jericho could defeat Shawn, carve his own name in the history books and begin a career of Wrestlemania moments like Shawn had.

 

Now when Jericho beats him at Backlash- he can start having Backlash moments like Shawn had! Oh wait...

 

We sat through three months of HBK coming out every week, superkicking Christian and then various shenanigans to occur all so Jericho could win the big one and became a true top heel on the RAW roster. Jericho getting his heat back is just ridicilous even Steven booking that just makes him look more like a complete loser.

 

It's not the middle of the feud. IT WAS THE END. The middle was that point between RR and No Way Out when Shawn came out everyweek and superkicked him and some weeks got to grace us with a boring promo.

 

I want Shawn Michaels out of WWE and I never want to see his face again. He had no reason to go over Jericho, he has no reason to be in the company and I hope to God he takes another bad bump.

[Guest SP-1]

Oh BOO HOO, Barron. That's fucking retarded logic you have there. Who the hell are YOU to say it's the end of the feud? A booker? Vince McMahona? HBK or Chris Jericho? Oh? What's that? No? Ok. Gotcha. That's when YOU wanted the feud to end and how YOU want it to.

 

Shawn didn't have a reason to go over Jericho? He didn't NEED to? LOL, I laugh at thee and such a pitiful argument. Nobody needs a damn thing in professional wrestling. Nobody except the fans. And HBK is a fan favorite, like it or not. At WrestleMania, HBK should have won because it's WRESTLE-FUCKING-MANIA. Deal with it, Bob. They sent the fans home happy. THAT is what's important. And for anyone that will use the, "I didn't go home happy" defense, that's too bad. Because I'm a fan. And I did. The people I watched it with are fans. And they did. Most of the people in the bar I was in are fans. And most of them did. So boo hoo. Bitch about it.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

I am dealing with your opinion. You guys are the ones that can't seem to deal with a countering opinion.

"I didn't really like WM....."

"How can you say that? You're not a real fan. God you picky smark son of a bitch......I hate you."

You're always worth a good laugh dude. Pot...kettle.....black.

[Guest SP-1]

I've tackled one subject and never told someone they weren't a fan. Felt bad for them because they've tried to turn it into something it isn't supposed to be, never have I tried to rob someone of being a fan. Check your facts, brotha. Back up what you're saying about me.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I tend to agree somewhat with Barron.

 

Marks will always focus on the Mania match cause it's frickin WrestleMania. Even if he wins a Backlash rematch he still fell short on the biggest show if the year. Half the people that watched Mania might not even watch Backlash.

 

HBK's doing a final run. That means time to put people over. Not to mention the face winning the first match kinda ends the feud in most marks' eyes.

[Guest bob_barron]

Who the hell are YOU to say it's the end of the feud? A booker? Vince McMahona? HBK or Chris Jericho? Oh? What's that? No? Ok. Gotcha. That's when YOU wanted the feud to end and how YOU want it to.

 

I've someone whose watched wrestling for thirteen years and I think I have pretty good knowledge of how a feud is supposed to be booked. Wrestlemania is well known for being the place where the big feuds are blown off.

 

Shawn didn't have a reason to go over Jericho? He didn't NEED to? LOL, I laugh at thee and such a pitiful argument. Nobody needs a damn thing in professional wrestling. Nobody except the fans.

 

No- he didn't have a reason to. What does HBK beating Jericho accomplish? Well it just makes Jericho, a guy who is an active wrestler and wrestles house shows unlike HBK, look like an idiot. Jericho beating Shawn and establishing himself as a top-tier heel on the RAW roster instantly makes him mean something in the eyes of the fans. You know- the ones who matter. When fans go to house shows- they don't see Shawn Michaels. They see Chris Jericho. I'd rather pay my money to see an established main eventer with credibility then a loser who can't back up what he says a la Jericho.

 

And HBK is a fan favorite, like it or not. At WrestleMania, HBK should have won because it's WRESTLE-FUCKING-MANIA. Deal with it, Bob. They sent the fans home happy.

 

He is a fan favourite I'll give you that. What does the name of the event have to do with why Shawn should've gone over? Wrestlemania- Where heroes are made, legends are remembered- I think Jericho beating Shawn would've qualified as that and you know that's what to quote you "WRESTLE-FUCKING-MANIA" is supposed to be about. That win did not send the fans home happy since it wasn't the last match. Jericho could've beaten HBK like a bitch and had him tap out to the Walls and the crowd still would've gone home happy. Why? Cause they knew they saw a great match and Shawn gave it his all and they would've respected Jericho a lot more while still digging Shawn for being the Showstoppa yaddi yaddi yadda.

 

And for anyone that will use the, "I didn't go home happy" defense, that's too bad. Because I'm a fan. And I did. The people I watched it with are fans. And they did.

 

Do you want a cookie? That's great that you went home happy. I thought the show was awesome as well. The theatre I saw it in booed the hell out of the finish because they knew it was stupid and just made Jericho look worse. The fans went home happy cause Brock Lesnar beat Kurt Angle. HBK v. Y2J has no bearing on whether a fan went home happy unless they were stuck in 1996.

 

So boo hoo. Bitch about it.

 

I must've missed the memo that said I had to like everything or else get bitched at by you. I hate Shawn Michaels and I have a lot of reasons why I do and he had no reason to go over Chris Jericho.

[Guest SP-1]

Fuck it. Be miserable, the lot of you.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

I'm not miserable. I enjoyed plenty of things last night. But just because I didn't enjoy the booking there then I'm miserable?

Man do you have a god complex or something?

[Guest bob_barron]

So in SP's world we have to love everything no matter what?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not miserable. Just giving a little constructive criticism of the WWE as I always do.

[Guest bob_barron]

I'm not miserable either. If SpiderPoet bothered to read what I said, I said I thought Wrestlemania was awesome and have mostly praise the show and can't wait for the DVD.

 

But apparently if I don't like one booking decision that I defended point by point why I didn't like it- I'm fucking miserable

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

I don't think he's going to respond Bob. He's jumped onto his high horse and is now pouting up there b/c we don't agree with his mighty opinion.

[Guest Downhome]

You speak the truth, just be carefull...one can be put to death for doing so.

 

Oh boo hoo. Most people back up what they say when people insult HBK and Goldberg. If you don't like that well then defend your guys better.

I'm sick and fucking tired for getting jumped on SIMPLY because I speak my opinion on something. More than once I've been either flamed, attacked, or whatever ONLY for saying I like Goldberg, Hogan, HHH, or whoever the hell else it is. Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of it. There is no reason for us TO defend ourselves, we like who we fucking like, period.

 

You don't see me questioning you, saying that YOU better "defend" your guys better. You don't see me attacking any of you just because you like something I don't like or vice versa. I don't even expect you to defend yourselves for anything, it's a fucking opinion. Some people like vanillia and some like ass, it's a matter of opinion.

 

I am actually getting sick and tired of the entire net world of Pro. Wrestling. It's bad fucking enough that the politics are going on in the REAL world, behind the stage where none of us REALLY know what's going on, but for it to spill over onto the entire internet, onto the message boards, and taking over the fans mind set, it's making me fucking suck. I'm tired of getting flamed for liking what I like, and I'm sick of saying I have to defend myself.

 

The life of a normal, casual viewing MARK is much more fun than this.

 

I'm also sick and tired of myself. I'm tired of watching Pro. Wrestling as some sort of damn ananalyst where I pick apart every little thing that I EVER see. I'm sick of sitting down, and looking at the show taking into account what goes on backstage, and quite frankly, I am not doing that anymore, period. I actually started this about a week ago, and I'm loving my mind set so far.

 

I'm going to start watching as a true fan once again, WITHOUT taking into effect what I don't ever actually see or know about for myself, and let me tell you, for the last week, I've enjoyed WWE more than I have in years.

 

This isn't dirrected at you Bob, I'm just venting, I have no problem with you.

 

I just wish that a lot of us would wake up, and realize that this is just Pro. Wrestling, it's entertainment, it's just how it is. There is no need to act like we are the all mighty know it all's of the world, because we are not. Sure, we may seemingly know what to do more than Vince or anyone knows at times, but still, we are not in a true posistion to judge what really goes on.

 

My advice to not only myself, but to everyone, is to try to once again watch Pro. Wrestling as a mark. Your life as a Pro. Wrestling fan would be a much happier one, trust me.

 

You don't have to love everything that happens, I don't even do that. There are things I f'n hate that goes on, but it does no use to just over analyze things every show, I'm guilty of this just as much as any of you. Hell, it doesn't hurt to share ideas on what you think would help, but still...

 

...there is no need to put down one another for any reason when talking about this. It's just a big game, entertainment, so just have fun and not get SOOOOOOOOO bent out of shape from now on.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I agree with Downhome somewhat. In that I'm sick of some of the assholes too.

 

I may not agree with SP, but you guys need to back off. You're twisting his words around completely.

 

I don't mind being a smark. It's helped me to gain an understanding of what's wrong with the WWE and that in turn helps me to see the signs of improvement better.

 

As a mark I really missed out on the true art of wrestling...atleast me personally.

[Guest Downhome]

I don't mind being a smark. It's helped me to gain an understanding of what's wrong with the WWE and that in turn helps me to see the signs of improvement better.

 

As a mark I really missed out on the true art of wrestling...atleast me personally.

I agree, I DO enojoy being a smark in terms of learning more and more about this great industry that we all love so much. I also like knowing what's going on in terms of injury's, and all of that. In the end however, we are ALL still marks, like it or not. To me, being a mark is just to be a Pro. Wrestling fan who allows oneself to allow the emotion of the sport to take control of them, and to just "feel it" when you can.

 

I mis the art of wrestling also, that is one thing I am not pleased with. It's very sad that actual WRESTLING does not seem to be very over at all anymore with the majority of viewers, that almost depresses me.

 

Sometimes I wonder what the fans of today would do if a match such as Flair/Steamboat was presented before them.

[Guest ViciousFish]

Sometimes it defintley isn't worth being a smark. Last night I took someone's advice and watched 'Mania as a mark and I enjoyed myself immensely. I didn't enjoy everything but I really liked it. Everytime I thought something smarky I buried it by cheering for the guy I wanted to win. I marked like a girl when Matt hardy won. Who cares if it was a roll up? I cheered like a little kid when Hogan hulked up. So its bad wrestling. Big deal. I was upset when Booker T got screwed several times by HHH, but not because he was being buried or hit with a glass ceiling but because HHH was cheating dammit!

 

Looking back on it I may not agree with everything when I look at it as a smark but being able to enjoy it defenitely overshadowed whining and crying like a little bitch just because it wasn't a perfect show. Then again name me one perfect Wrestlemania.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Hey Downhome......it's not like I sit around and watch it for flaws. I don't get out my damned microscope and analyze every little thing.

I sit back and go "Ah.....going to watch some wrestling......hopefully it's good." Then I watch.....ignoring anything backstage.....and you know what? I have the displeased reaction you see on the message board. I watch it as a fan everytime I sit down and I am usually dissapointed. Not all smarks analyze it and try to find faults. They just fly out and slap me in the face.

And another thing.....I still mark out. I got that tingling feeling when I saw the Goldberg promo video. Hell I liked it so much I dragged my mom into my room and made her watch it. So yes.....we can still mark out. They just don't give me much to mark over.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I try to live in both worlds. I analyze......I mark out. It's worked quite well for me since I still watch on a weekly basis and still enjoy some of what I see.

[Guest ViciousFish]

Sometimes I wonder what the fans of today would do if a match such as Flair/Steamboat was presented before them.

I honestly think alot of them would hate it. I mean how many huge bumps were there? How many german suplexes were there to count?? Wrestling has really changed alot in the last 15 years. What was a great match to the fans 10 years ago might be totally boring today and vice versa. I downloaded alot of matches from the 80's and I can't enjoy them the same way as when I saw the same type of match when I was a kid. They are good matches, with psychology and a great feel but its a different feel than now.

[Guest Downhome]

Hey Downhome......it's not like I sit around and watch it for flaws. I don't get out my damned microscope and analyze every little thing.

I sit back and go "Ah.....going to watch some wrestling......hopefully it's good." Then I watch.....ignoring anything backstage.....and you know what? I have the displeased reaction you see on the message board. I watch it as a fan everytime I sit down and I am usually dissapointed. Not all smarks analyze it and try to find faults. They just fly out and slap me in the face.

And another thing.....I still mark out. I got that tingling feeling when I saw the Goldberg promo video. Hell I liked it so much I dragged my mom into my room and made her watch it. So yes.....we can still mark out. They just don't give me much to mark over.

I didn't say you did, but MANY people do, and it's insane to me. As I said, I used to do it also, but damnit, I am MAKING myself stop.

 

I'm not going to blame HHH on every fucking thing from here on out by the way.

 

I also am looking at storylines in the bigger picture, and NOT simply the here and now. Like what happened at WM, sure it looks bad in the present time, but it COULD lead to great things for many guys. There is nothing we can say for sure about it right now, we can't really judge it untill we see the end result, which might not come for a VERY long time.

 

I'm just saying that I am now going to take things as they come, try to understand why certain things happen, and just try to be more of a mark at heart once again.

 

It's just more fun that way, it's that simple.

 

There is no use having stuff that goes on ruin you so much, just take it as it comes, whoever is meant to reach the top will do so eventually. Booker T, Jericho, and whoever else will have their day, it's just a matter of time.

[Guest Downhome]

Sometimes I wonder what the fans of today would do if a match such as Flair/Steamboat was presented before them.

I honestly think alot of them would hate it. I mean how many huge bumps were there? How many german suplexes were there to count?? Wrestling has really changed alot in the last 15 years. What was a great match to the fans 10 years ago might be totally boring today and vice versa. I downloaded alot of matches from the 80's and I can't enjoy them the same way as when I saw the same type of match when I was a kid. They are good matches, with psychology and a great feel but its a different feel than now.

Hell, I'm willing to bet that the majority of fans would boo the hell out of a classic old school match. I don't blame them however, it's just how the fans have been trained over the years. MANY who are fans right now know nothing other than the brawling/spotty style that we see today.

[Guest Sakura]

I just can't watch the shows "as a mark". I can't pretend that Hogan and Vince brawling is fun or whatever.

 

And I don't really want to. I was a smart in 2000 and I REALLY enjoyed the product.

 

I don't like the idea of changing the way I watch the product. The product should just be good again.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I was just going to sit back and watch this amusing thread unfold but this comment from Downhome stood out:

 

To me, being a mark is just to be a Pro. Wrestling fan who allows oneself to allow the emotion of the sport to take control of them, and to just "feel it" when you can.

 

Yet, Los Banky, who seems to more or less have the same stance as Downhome (if there's only two sides to this), stated earlier in the thread that it ISN'T REAL. It's CHOREOGRAPHED. Hell, to be overly cliche and use the word that EVERY wrestling-hater has used at one point or another to put the whole industry down, it's FAKE. So where do we draw the line? What is "emotional enough" and what is "too much"? Can we allow it to take control, but not so much that if things don't pan out that you feel betrayed? Well?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

We are marks, but we're different kind of marks.

 

Most marks are your typical youth of today. Short attention spans and immature. If storylines take too long to get to a good point they'll latch on to what's happened so far and make their opinions on the here and now.

 

If it takes too long for a certain wrestler to look strong the fans will write him off in that particular feud.

 

We on the other hand tend to want the longer storylines, but also want them evenly matched or atleast emotionally driven. When we see that it's one sided the emotion just get's sucked out of the whole feud.

[Guest ViciousFish]

I loved Hogan and Vince brawling. It was a shitty as hell match but it was great. It had so much emotion in it and Vince dropping the leg of the ladder was insane. It made me want to be 10 years old again before I learned wrestling was fake, before the Monday night wars. Back to the day where Hogan was the man and NO ONE ever beat him.