Are peeps too picky?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Management feels that Andrew is the better prospect at this time. However, given that the show has only 5 eps left...they probably should concentrate more on their starters for the home stretch.

 

Still..."We are as Gods!!!"

[Guest SP-1]

Not the whole attitude. I know that having Goldberg back might equal out to a horrid, horrid scenario, but I reserve judgement and have FUN seeing it play out. If it blows hard then I'll say it did. If they never put Jericho over and there's hard proof it was HBK's fault, I'll gladly admit I was wrong -- I've never had a problem doing that around here -- and will likely say something about it before anyone else brings it to my attention.

 

But people here tend to just ignore certain sides to a discussion that don't support their own views. I tend to be on that other side with those other options (still keeping my options open). Changing your opinion to enjoy the show? No. If you just let your suck defenses down long enough to be a fan while you watch, you'd enjoy it a hell of a lot more though. If you're unwilling to let your views evolve, that's just being hard-headed. Those guys go out there to tell a story. Let 'em tell it before trying to pick apart why it doesn't work.

[Guest Sakura]

Still..."We are as Gods!!!"

That was awesome!

 

They need to send the Slayers in Training to OVW though.

[Guest bob_barron]

Those guys go out there to tell a story. Let 'em tell it before trying to pick apart why it doesn't work.

I did and I LOVED HBK v. Jericho- I thought it was a fantastic match and it looked like they were pulling out all the stops to put Jericho over. But then HBK had to win on a fluke rollup and it really hurt watching it because I knew that in the end Jericho's great promos and ring worked had been reduced to make him look like a loser.

 

I usually am pretty positive and I usually love all the PPVs just like I did Wrestlemania. But the fact remains that HBK going over Jericho was bullshit and should never have happened or even been suggested

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"But the fact remains that HBK going over Jericho was bullshit and should never have happened or even been suggested "

 

Kliq happens.

 

Besides...they needed a high profile face to win to offset HHH's win. It just works that way every damn time.

[Guest Brian]

HBK needed tyhe roll-up because he could no longer compete at the level he needed to to beat Jericho. Jericho was using offense from both guys' and wiping the mat with Shawn. And it hit off the roll-up sequence earlier.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Give me a break. I watch movies, I enjoy movies, but I sure don't take them personally.

 

Apples and Oranges. "Movies" themselves are not bridged over the same length of time that the WWE has been. But even still, there are people who get strongly attached to some films. I don't understand the appeal of Star Wars for some, but I don't condemn them for being passionate about something which I see as being silly. If the next Star Wars film had Darth Vader just become happy and that's the end I am sure there would be outrage and I would understand. That's what the WWE does except on a lot more occasions.

 

I watch wrestling to relax, to unwind, to forget about life for 2 hours. If they have a crappy show, who cares? So what? It only takes up a minor segment of my life, so whats the bother?

 

If they have one crappy show that sets in motion a chain of events that creates a dozen more crappy shows - which creates a dozen more crappy shows - which creates a dozen more crappy shows - until you're enjoyment and tolerance simply stops. If one show's problem represents the direction the company. I don't bitch about what colour shirt HHH wears, I could care less. But the fundamental errors the WWE is making and the direction they are going in as evidenced by certain events is enough to get pissy at.

 

There are many other hard pressing issues that are far greater than wrestling. I've invested time into it, I've also invested time into playing dodge ball at school - I never took that personally.

 

The more time you invest, the more time you get attached and the more you want to have your investment validated. There's a difference between a 14 year investment and a 4 year investment.

 

There is a difference between enjoying something, and taking it seriously. A big difference.

 

What if you take your enjoyment seriously? If you are a fan of something, if there is something you enjoy, you tend to take that enjoyment to the next level. If you like playing Hockey, you might want to know the history of the game, you might want to talk to other people who enjoy playing it and discussion your enjoyment - you want to share it with others - you might extend it to watching hockey. Then you might follow certain players and teams. After-a-while your enjoyment becomes almost a hobby. You get serious about it.

 

The only things I take personally is the stuff that affects me directly. My family, school, friends, work, ect...stuff on TV, radio, ect...has no bearing on my life.

 

Time doesn't effect you personally? You give them your time - time is life - you don't take life personally? You don't take them wasting your time personally? It may not harm you directly, but to go about like it doesn't effect you is rather silly. The simple fact that you spend time watching it rather than spending time with your family or friends or doing something productive shows that it effects you. It's a part of your life.

 

 

Oh, and I said I liked it...but I did explain WHY I liked everything previously. Why are you trying to take that way from me?

 

You're explantions weren't really very good. It was basically "This match was really good because one guy was really good and the other guy, who isn't really good, was really good tonight and it made for a really good match which I enjoyed very much. *insert self-glorifying remark about how all you need is to be entertained for something to be good*

 

I'm not gonna rehash my thoughts on every thread. You've read my opinion, so I fail to understand the issue. I have friends who watch wrestling who don't know a thing about workrate or pace or psychology but their opinion is as valid as yours.

 

Weren't you the one questioning the validity of my opinion in the first place?

 

There opinion isn't as valid as mine just as my opinion isn't as valid as, say, John D. Williams or Frank Jewett. They've seen more than me, they know more than me, their opinion is better informed than mine.

 

These 'intanigibles' you named really have no bearing on the average fan.

 

Tangibles. And it does have bearing on the average fan - at least, it had bearing on me long before I got on-line. Fan's may not outright breakdown a match and analyse each part, but they *do* get effected by the story of the match and can recognize things like selling and psychology - they just don't call it by that name. They can realize when something doesn't add up.

 

They like spotfests, they like surprise run-ins, they hardcore matches - that stuff is more important in their eyes as the stuff you mentioned.

 

They like spotfests *to a point*, they like surprise run ins *to a point*, they like Hardcore matches *to a point*. Then they just get tired of them. Things LIKE psychology and selling keeps them interested because it gives the match MEANING.

 

Its not about standards, its about what makes each person tick.

 

No, it's about people with low standards bitching about people with high standards (hell, my standards aren't even that high).

 

I'm not going to be a pretentious bastard and try to act like everyone else on this board. I enjoy being able to formulate my own opinions, away from the typical smart mark terminology.

 

Yep, you sure ain't pretentious... Oh no... You go on being better than us sheep. But you're not pretentious. Take pride in that. Take pride in being better than us because you're not pretentious.

 

Why would I go against my gut instinct?

 

It's a lil something called "reason". Emotions can be misleading. Say you were getting a blow job during WM. Even if the card sucked, you'd associate WM with a pleasant feeling and call the card good - because that's what your "gut instinct" tells you. You have to weigh the worth of the show not just on feeling or 'entertainment value' but on...wait for it...standards, to give a much better informed opinion.

 

I liked Hogan/McMahon because of the Piper run-in. Because of Vince jumping off a ladder. Because it had the crowd in it. Because it had a drama that drew me into the match. I'm not gonna discredit that by saying "gosh golly gee, there wasn't much structure there...Hogan didn't sell his injuries much" or any of that garbage.

 

Why not? Why do you hold them to such a low standard? Why don't you expect more out of them? You paid $40 and they have taken hours of your time over the past month - you deserve to have that sort of quality.

 

If wrestling takes up 4/4 hours of your weekly watching, why still follow it?

 

I've said in the past that I see myself not watching it by summers end. Why? I dunno, dumb hope I guess. The WWE has so much potential and they aren't any where near it.

 

This "I've invested too much time" is fucking rubbish. God damn, this isn't a fucking heroin addiction where you can't stop.

 

That's true and it's not true. There isn't a chemical dependancy, but there is a psychological one. Like I said, I've been watching it for as long as I can remember, it has been engrained into my life - it has become a custom, a habit. Breaking the habit is hard. There are different stages a person goes through until they finally stop. This is why there is no big drop off in ratings, it's a very gradual thing to stop watching.

 

You have the choice, and you keep coming back. YOU are the sucker. YOU are giving them ratings by watching.

 

I don't give them ratings. I don't buy their sponsors products. The same arguement can be applied with you banky. YOU keep coming back here, YOU keep reading my posts, YOU have the choice. But even then, your attachment to me is much less than me to wrestling.

 

And if you aren't watching it, than you shouldn't complain as you can't judge for yourself that it sucks.

 

Ah, so we should all just shut up and watch and only say happy things... and yet have our own opinion and not follow what everyone else says... Yep.

 

All of the complaining in the world won't change Vince McMahon, haven't any of you learned that yet? It won't happen. So save your breath.

 

WM 18. Hogan vs. Rock. 68 000 people changed what Vince McMahon thought. I was one of them. HHH lost his title because Hogan was so damn over. It set a chain of events in motion that are still felt to this day. But you're right, Vince McMahon doesn't care about what his fans say - even though the WWE does have people reading message boards...

 

--------------------

What Have I Become?

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Hey SpiderPoet. You do realize that SOME of us who aren't entertained by it and hate what we see aren't looking for faults and aren't picking it apart. What we see however DOESN'T ENTERTAIN US. GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

Like I said earlier. I sat down and watched WM to have a good time. I didn't watch it thinking "Oh man that HHH has so much backstage power. I wonder what he's going to pull out!" I watched it going "Oh man it's wrestelmania! I can't wait to see what matches rock!"

I watched the Jericho/HBK match as a fan and I enjoyed most of it, save Shawn's superhuman comebacks. And then when Shawn won I was like "What the hell!? How come he beat Jericho!?" I didn't go on about HBK's backstage power. I just wanted to know why he won. And the ROOM FULL OF MARKS that I was with all hated HBK winning. They booed the decision to....yeah marks were doing it. They didn't get it either.

And then I watched Hogan and Vince to be entertained. And what I saw did not entertain me one bit. Quite frankly I was bored....and was waiting for it to end.

So there goes any stupid argument that people who dislike the show are just picking it apart and looking for faults.

I didn't look for any faults. They smacked me in the face and hampered my enjoyment.

Oh and the two marks at work who I knew were going to watch it....yeah I asked them what they thought.

"That Jericho/HBK match was good. But why did HBK beat Jericho? He weighs like 100 pounds and should be retired. Doesn't make much sense."

and

"Dammit......I'm so fucking tired of HHH. How come he had to beat Booker T? That was bullshit."

SEE! Even the marks are having there enjoyment hampered by some of these things.

So go ahead...I can predict your next post.

"Go ahead and be miserable! God. All you do is look for faults! Just sit back and enjoy it! Don't pick it apart! Stupid smarks."

[Guest SP-1]

Dumamaru, not once have I insisted that anyone take my opinion on the matter as gospel. I've passionately presented my views on the subjects at hand. Frankly, I find it a little funny that people try to turn it around as if I've gone all Nazi and tried to force everyone to side with me. How defensive some of the people on here get when someone passionately opposes the majority position is a little strange. But continue on your course. I'll be around to counter you with MY OPINION, so just learn to deal with it and counter me when it happens. This IS a DISCUSSION board, no? Or is it just the HHHate-TSM-WWE-Folder-Is-A-Joke folder? Because if actual discussion about wrestling with DIFFERENT opinions isn't tolerated in these parts I'll stick to the other parts of the board where people are allowed to defend their opinions without too much bullshit.

[Guest bob_barron]

I'll be around to counter you with MY OPINION, so just learn to deal with it and counter me when it happens. This IS a DISCUSSION board, no?

 

You mean like when I laid out point by point why HBK going over Jericho was the wrong move and you said 'fine be miserable?'

 

That's real some good discussion rigt there.

 

You can post anything you want but be prepared to defend it especially if it is not popular opinion. That's life

[Guest SP-1]

I have defended it, Barron, laying out why I had no problem with it. So are you going to bitch because I didn't say you were right, because I don't side with you on the issue, or because you can't handle someone laying out their side of it? Neither one of us are absolutely right and you need to grow the fuck up and realize that. It's OPINION. I said be miserable because you laid out your side, I laid out mine and I see alot of people that are just watching on autopilot and bitching alot right now. That, too, is my OPINION. We laid out our sides, and I attempted to drop it since my side had been explained.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

I'm not saying you can't have your god damn opinion. What I'm getting uppity over is you accusing us of watching to find faults and not sitting back and enjoying it if OUR OPINION disagrees with yours.

And I'm trying to tell you that it's not what i do. I don't sit and find faults. They smack me in the face.

Why don't you read my god damn posts.

I was saying that I wasn't entertained, and that I'm not going over the product with a magnifying glass. And that I'm getting tired of you guys telling us "Oh you can't be entertained. Shut up and enjoy it. Quit looking for faults in everything." Have your god damn opinion about HBK going over Jericho.....I don't give a flying fuck. But don't tell me how to watch or what I'm thinking when I watch. Just like christians to tell me how to think.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Can someone please explain to me why Vince McMahon and the WWE deserves this optimism?

[Guest MaxPower27]

Because, RRR, he's a GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[/sarcasm]

[Guest treble charged]

Well, Vince HAS shown what it takes to put out an entertaining product in the past.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

And Vince has shown that he has his head firmly placed up his own anus in the past... and is showing it right now... and showed it last year... and the year before that.

[Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy]

Can someone please explain to me why Vince McMahon and the WWE deserves this optimism?

Were you once a WWF fan?

 

Then there is always the possibility.

[Guest SP-1]

I'm not saying you can't have your god damn opinion. What I'm getting uppity over is you accusing us of watching to find faults and not sitting back and enjoying it if OUR OPINION disagrees with yours.

And I'm trying to tell you that it's not what i do. I don't sit and find faults. They smack me in the face.

Why don't you read my god damn posts.

I was saying that I wasn't entertained, and that I'm not going over the product with a magnifying glass. And that I'm getting tired of you guys telling us "Oh you can't be entertained. Shut up and enjoy it. Quit looking for faults in everything." Have your god damn opinion about HBK going over Jericho.....I don't give a flying fuck. But don't tell me how to watch or what I'm thinking when I watch. Just like christians to tell me how to think.

Way to flame bait there, Bucko. Faith doesn't have one thing to do with it. My opinions are as a storyteller and as a fan. But if that kind of shit is allowed around here then forget it. This place isn't worth the effort.

[Guest bob_barron]

He's right in a sense even though I think Dam could've used a better choice of words at the end- I have praised Wrestlemania up and down but I find fault with three seconds of the show and I'm told to be fucking miserable because apparently I can't complain.

 

I paid $29 to see Wrestlemania and I have a right to expect to be satisfied. Overall I think I was except the finish to Jericho v. HBK really pissed me off and answered a question I had been debating: Is it possible to hate HBK more then I already can?

 

Answer: Oh yes

[Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy]

Just like christians to tell me how to think.

How fucking ignorant is that? If anything has ever been offensive around here, its that statement.

[Guest SP-1]

Don't worry about it, Rad. It doesn't matter.

[Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy]

Don't worry about it, Rad. It doesn't matter.

1. Its Banky

 

2. I was offended by it

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I still haven't really heard a good answer to my question. How many angles in the WWE are successful? How many things does the WWE do right? I don't get where this "Give it a chance" mentality comes from when history shows that when a chance is given, the WWE turns around and screws you... and there are no signs of changing.

[Guest bob_barron]

You make a good point Rudo-

I put up with HBK on my TV for 4 months and kept my sanity by thinking: Okay- he'll be gone after Mania and it'll be alright.

 

But yet that fucker is still here, still stinking up my tv and wasting payroll and a spot that could be used for someone else.

 

I gave them a chance at Mania to finally elevate Jericho by having him beat someone in the other then Rock in a big match and yet they piss away my faith by having Shawn get a nice special win so we can all go awwwww.

[Guest SP-1]

No answer will suffice, Rudo. None. Because it all comes down to opinion. And around here, opinions count for shit.

[Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy]

I still haven't really heard a good answer to my question. How many angles in the WWE are successful? How many things does the WWE do right? I don't get where this "Give it a chance" mentality comes from when history shows that when a chance is given, the WWE turns around and screws you... and there are no signs of changing.

Rudo, I am taking a new appraoch to arguing with you. There's no point in butting heads when we obviously have a different opinion of wrestling.

 

BUT

 

I don't understand your stance on everything. You seem to have given up on the product but you still watch it. I am not insulting, or critisizing you, I simply don't understand? You know the product is going to be bad, so why stick around only to get angry? You yourself say the keep screwing YOU, why put yourself in that position?

[Guest Memoirs of an Invisible Chevy]

But yet that fucker is still here, still stinking up my tv and wasting payroll and a spot that could be used for someone else.

I could easily say that about Regal. Except Michaels actually puts on good matches. There are so many people who waste payroll, and waste precious TV time - there is no way you can pinpoint Michaels for doing that. I look at Shawn and see that there is a positive aspect. He can still entertain. There are many others who we can't say that about.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I love wrestling. I watched WOW for crying out loud. But the WWE is draining me - as I've said before in this thread, come summer I can easily see myself not watching. I only caught a lil bit of RAW, I've been missing lots of smackdowns because after reading the spoilers I usually find something better to do with my time. I am watching the WWE less and less as my interest in MMA grows and grows. I see UFC and PrideFC trying to give me the best product possible while I see the WWE half-assing.

 

Which is what *I* don't get about you...

 

How can you not see that the WWE doesn't care about you? And why do you not care about that?

[Guest bob_barron]

Well technically Regal isn't taking up any TV right now.

 

Regal isn't taking up a main event slot like Shawn Michaels is and he doesn't get feuds built around him for three months.

 

He's basically a midcard player while Shawn is a main event player. There's a big difference

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

It's not really an opinion though. A successful angle is a successful angle whether you like it or not. The way I see it, for every successful angle the WWE does there are a dozen bad ones...and I think I am being very generous with that 1/12. I can't recall a "perfect" WWE angle - and I am using the term "perfect" loosely. Every single angle they do has at least one Flaw. You may say that's a high standard, but it really isn't. The WWE has the ability to do it and they can't even get ONE right.