Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted April 3, 2003 Yes what Smarks and Mark want are TOTALLY different. Is it a wonders we hate the product right now and ratings are reaching 96 levels? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted April 3, 2003 Hey let's not forget that Kane was killed by HHH as well. Even the hosses are not safe from his mighty god hand! It's a wonders that RVD and Kane were HHH's first two feuds and now are in a tag team that makes no sense. I'm suprised that Steiner and Booker haven't formed an unlikely duo yet......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted April 3, 2003 It's funny how Trips says he could care less about what people on the internet say about him, yet he seems to know what the major knock on him is amongst smart marks. I also like he danced around the question of looking forward to working with Goldberg. And he quickly deferred to Booker T when asked about his delayed cover after that Pedigree at 'Mania. God forbid HHH actually admit to holding someone down or making them look weak. He says he doesn't think he made Booker look weak. He doesn't try to explain why (since there is not a good explanation anyway). Plus he says this: "You'd have to ask Booker that." Yeah, I'm sure Booker is in a position to really speak on that matter. If he would, he'd just be in deep shit for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted April 3, 2003 Yes what Smarks and Mark want are TOTALLY different. Is it a wonders we hate the product right now and ratings are reaching 96 levels? Just one problem with that reasoning: wasn't 1999 (Vince Russo's heyday) a great year for the WWF business wise but complete and utter SHIT as far as wrestling and every angle not McMahon/Austin? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted April 3, 2003 My favorite part is the blatant threat to drop Goldberg on his head. Not that I wish injury, mind you, but that just makes the shoot possibility when they DO hook up seem more likely. That I'd pay to see, yo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted April 3, 2003 Which is why they're not hooking up. He didn't make Goldberg's list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Hamburglar Report post Posted April 3, 2003 Yes what Smarks and Mark want are TOTALLY different. Is it a wonders we hate the product right now and ratings are reaching 96 levels? Just one problem with that reasoning: wasn't 1999 (Vince Russo's heyday) a great year for the WWF business wise but complete and utter SHIT as far as wrestling and every angle not McMahon/Austin? Indeed. 98 was pretty shite too. The last two years, 2001/2, although heavily derided and catastrophes success-wise, both utterly shit on 98/99 as far as actual good wrestling matches go. 2000 is of course the mix of wrestling and storylines that actually worked. I can't think why any self-respecting smark would have enjoyed 1999. The wrestling was terrible, and the storylines were even more stupid than they are now. It was like a whole year of Triple H - Katie Vick. For me, 1999 is the biggest point in favour of the whole "wrestling is cyclical" argument, because it sure wasn't the excellence of the product that was drawing in those ratings. I am aware that the cyclical theory has a few flaws, though, but 99 is an aberration. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted April 3, 2003 I can't think why any self-respecting smark would have enjoyed 1999. Me, because I was in my mark period then. Plus the stuff between Rock and Foley kicked ass even with a smark hat on. I remember I used to LMAO when Vince got in the ring. Now I slam on Vince Matches because I've been around people doing the same thing long enough. Even in 99 though, I stopped watching from October to January or so. I probably should have done it last year too. The end of the year is just a terrible time for wrestling. I quit watching though because HHH was constantly champ and it felt like his title reign was going on and On and ON because the belt was defended on free TV so much more often back then (you DO have to give the nod to that on Russo. Shows felt a little less like a constant PPV shill when he was driving the ship.) That plus heel Rock, my favorite, was jobbing constantly each month, FINALLY getting some semblance of a big win when he beat Billy Gunn in the KMA match. Granted, I hated HHH because of his character back then rather than the guy himself, but I still think when a heel character makes marks stop watching because they hate the guy too much, it might be working too well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted April 4, 2003 You know, I've often wondered if HHH isn't some kind of psychotic experiment the WWE is conducting, trying to see if they can work the smarks into hating a heel profusely. If it is, it still backfired. Cuz it's not the, "We love to hate you," heat. It's the, 'Please do something good so I don't break my TV,' kind of heat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted April 4, 2003 Indeed. 98 was pretty shite too. The last two years, 2001/2, although heavily derided and catastrophes success-wise, both utterly shit on 98/99 as far as actual good wrestling matches go. 2000 is of course the mix of wrestling and storylines that actually worked. I can't think why any self-respecting smark would have enjoyed 1999. True, of course, 2001 also had much of the future Smackdown 6 around and putting on great matches, plus RVD was a breath of fresh air. Wrestlemania XVII was absolutely awesome, as you know. No Mercy and Summerslam from that year is also amazing, and I'm glad I have those on DVD. Although Invasion and Survivor Series were disappointing. Aside from Summerslam 99, the rest of 99 was completely crap, although Jericho debuting was a favorite moment of mine for that year. Wrestlemania XV wasn't exactly a memorable event either--at least not until the end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JDMattitudeV1 Report post Posted April 4, 2003 The fact that none of the new guys have got over has led to having less star power which has led to lower buyrates on the PPV's. PERIOD. Thats not speculation, that's real. Which means the NON-SMARKS must not be perfectly happy either. And a lot of these guys who were getting a semi-push ran into the HHH buzzsaw.... Kurt Angle - stephanie angle botching due to them not being able to put steph w/angle might be the single biggest thing which kept angle from being rock/austin level draw Chris Jericho - looked like an idiot leading up to wrestlemania squash. hhh IMMEDIATELY gets his heat back any time hhh got any heat Jeff Hardy - got IC title win, then got squashed big time in rematch Chris Benoit - lost his only big profile match to hhh, push over Test - HHH got the girl, got the easy win over Test, then squashed Test 1,000 more times to accentuate the point Brock - day after title is won by Brock, RAW IS HHH, Brock looks horrible, then HHH gets title so Brock's title cut in half. Booker T - right near the top, gets beaten clean 1,2,3 by hhh in pin where hhh took a lifetime to cover him. jurys still out...i guess anyone want to continue? im getting bored... niko RVD - At the begining of 2002 RVD is at the hight of his popularity and is in a good fued with Undisputed champ Chris Jericho. HHH returns and suddenly RVD is in a feud with Test. The Royal Rumble comes around and RVD enters, hits a few spots then eats a pedigree and gets tossed out. This was the begining of his burial of RVD, which has since included four straight wins over RVD and running out and pedigreeing him as he was about to win the title before RVD is stuck in a tag team with Kane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted April 4, 2003 The RVD v. Jericho feud ended before Triple H came back Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest teke184 Report post Posted April 4, 2003 RVD-Jericho started in mid-December with a tag match on Smackdown and proceeded to a singles match at the Lafayette, LA, RAW. Jericho then told RVD at the New Orleans, LA, Smackdown that he wasn't getting another shot which, despite what he said, is WWE for "You're going to win a #1 contender's match". It was EXPECTED by us to go somewhere when everyone came back from the holiday season but, instead, almost every feud in the WWE was dropped on January 7 when Trips came back. EDIT- Fixed the timeline. It wasn't just RVD-Jericho. Booker-Austin and Test-Rock were dropped too, although I'm not arguing that LAST one being dropped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JDMattitudeV1 Report post Posted April 4, 2003 The RVD v. Jericho feud ended before Triple H came back I don't remember the exact date, all I remember is that it was around a bout the time HHH came back that the feud ended. Maybe it wasn't down to HHH, but it still leaves all the other stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted April 4, 2003 RVD-Jericho started in mid-December with a match on the Lafayette, LA, RAW, proceeded to a tag match at the New Orleans, LA, Smackdown, and was EXPECTED by us to go somewhere when everyone came back from the holiday season but, instead, almost every feud in the WWE was dropped on January 7 when Trips came back. It wasn't just RVD-Jericho. Booker-Austin and Test-Rock were dropped too, although I'm not arguing that LAST one being dropped. Test v. Rock was dropped in late December on a Christmas episode of SD! RVD v. Jericho ended when Rock became #1 contender on Jan 3rd. Austin v. Booker kinda ended in Feb when Austin beat him in a #1 contenders tournament. They always do mini mini feuds since it's too early to start building to the Rumble Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted April 4, 2003 This isn't directly related, but I found it funny... I was watching the WM2000 DVD, with Jericho on commentary with Kevin Kelly (Jericho, Benoit, and Angle all had commentary tracks and were all pretty much in character). Jericho, a face at this point, berates Angle for using the belt shot up until that time as his "big move" (i.e. finisher). Fast forward to Jericho's Undisputed Title run, and he's doing the same thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted April 4, 2003 (Jericho, Benoit, and Angle all had commentary tracks and were all pretty much in character). Benoit has character? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AndrewTS Report post Posted April 4, 2003 (Jericho, Benoit, and Angle all had commentary tracks and were all pretty much in character). Benoit has character? Ha-ha. He was basically mocking the Jerichoholics and saying he doesn't give a crap what the fans think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 4, 2003 I find it odd that they didn't ask him about Steph... No wait, I don't find that odd at all. How can Cruiserweights "make themselves" when their only matches are on Velocity and they are told to 'tone it down' and if they ever get on a PPV it's only for 5 minutes? Oh, I forgot, Cruiserweights aren't actually "wrestlers" so HHH didn't bother acknowledging them. The Success of the WWE in 1998/99 was mainly because of the times. Jerry Springer and South Park were both popular, and the WWE was lumped into that kind of programming. Of course, it helped that Mike Tyson and Steve Austin were a focus Of course, this isn't 1999, south park and jerry springer aren't popular and the WWE is so behind the times it's ridiculous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 4, 2003 Oh and I LOOOOOVE the "Why would I hold guys down - the more guys I can make money with the better" argument. Of course, he neglects to mention that someone might become more successful than him and push him out of the top spot... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted April 4, 2003 RVD and Jericho got over on their own much the same way that Triple H claims Austin got himself over. RVD was getting the biggest face pops(on the level of super over face Rock) over a year ago, so I would take that for strapping a rocket to himself and taking off, unfortunately I think Vince and the "office" forgot to give RVD some gas for the rocket, because RVD's overness got him nowhere. Same story with Jericho, who can get himself over no matter if he is a permanent " jobber to the stars" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted April 4, 2003 Yes I was going to mention 99. That was weird. But they've been trying storylines that would've taken off in 99 and they're not working. Which leads me to believe that 99 was a fluke and nobody wants to see that shit anymore. Jeez if nobody wants to see that shit then I wonder what they want to see??? How about wrestling!? Gee......that reminds me of something the smarks want to see........geez.....marks and smarks wanting the same thing!? Amazing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 4, 2003 1999 wasn't a fluke - there once was a time and place for "attitude" - and it was in 1998/9. Of course it's 5 years later and in todays day and age things change fast. Vince can't seem to grasp that - even though he should have learned from the mid-90's... stupid old fuck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
