Interview With 'Taker

[Guest Lightning Flik]

I'm pretty sure that a blind monkey could book a better show than the WWE writers.

Hell keep it simple.....just a bunch of straight wrestling. If you want a storyline mixed in here make sure it's wrestling related. And if it's not make sure it's no overly stupid soap opera bullshit........and EVERYTHING SHOULD LEAD TO A MATCH.

See it's not that fucking hard.

That's the problem D. Many regular marks want to see the soap opera as well as the matches. They want to have reasons for loving or hating the guys in the ring.

 

Normal marks don't really care for Joe Blow saying to Squid Weed, "I'm a better submissionist than you are. I've been here in the fed for over 10 years now and frankly you make a mockery of the sport with all your high flying shenanigans. I challenge you to a match." (Note: Yes, this sucks, but you get the gist.)

 

The normal marks prefer the over the top preformances in the drama product. Hence why people like McMahon and Hogan had and still have the crowd response they do (although right now, for Hogan, it's because of his legacy).

Edited April 4, 2003 by Lightning Flik

[Guest Sakura]

"Sit back and enjoy it" is one of the biggest bullshit statements anyone can make.

Yeah, it is. It's really insulting if you think about it. It's like they're saying you're wrong in hating the show and it's your fault because it's the way you watch it.

 

It's totally ridiculous and it's especially messed when it's the WWE saying it. What other business constantly makes fun of part of their fanbase and tells them to just shut up and like their product?

 

I am also sick of WWE underestimating the internet. Everyone and their dog has a PC. It's not 1993 anymore. The smart crowd isn't 4 guys in the cheap seats with copies of the observer.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Then explain the Royal Rumble of this year..

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

That's a really good point Sak - WWE talked about getting "over a million" people voting for the best wrestler in RAW history yet say that the internet represents a very small portion of the fanbase. Not that I am saying the WWE should start using "inside" information on their shows, but they should take the internet voice seriously.

[Guest Sakura]

Yeah, really.

 

Steiner and HHH, two "established, brand name" guys got booed out of the building.

 

Angle and Benoit got a standing ovation.

 

Must have been a crowd full of smarts or something?

 

 

 

And what about the year 2000?

[Guest Sakura]

Yeah, the last thing I want is worked shoots and "inside" comments.

 

I really liked the 2000 product. For the most part the storylines were simple and lead to good in ring action. I think it appealed to everyone, mark and smart alike.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Ok so you can have storylines. Just not over the top Russofied storylines.

Hell Macho going crazy for thinking Hogan was trying to steal Liz was PERFECT.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

Then explain the Royal Rumble of this year..

That's the problem D. Many regular marks want to see the soap opera as well as the matches. They want to have reasons for loving or hating the guys in the ring.

Edited April 4, 2003 by Lightning Flik

[Guest Sakura]

But all the soap opera stuff they've tried has failed in like the past 2 years.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

Ok so you can have storylines. Just not over the top Russofied storylines.

Hell Macho going crazy for thinking Hogan was trying to steal Liz was PERFECT.

I'm not talking like Russofied here. I just mean, the normal marks want to believe that these guys are larger than us. That they are like demi-gods to mere mortals.

 

And yes. Macho going crazy thinking Hogan was trying to steal Liz was great. That's the kind of storyline I'm talking about, stuff like that.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Well so am I. That's perfect. It's simple and leads to an exciting match.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

But all the soap opera stuff they've tried has failed in like the past 2 years.

I understand that. Perhaps maybe I should toss it out the window, with me using the soap opera crap.

 

What I mean is, it needs to be dramatic, but not because the storyline is. It's because of the people who do these storylines that make the end result dramatic.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I dont think any of us want a *pure wrestling* product w/o storylines. However, we want storylines to be based AROUND matches, not the other way around. There should be 20 minute matches and 5 minute promos. There should be more of an emphasis placed on the competitive aspects in wrestling - guys should not be fighting over coffee or shampoo.

 

Benoit/Angle didn't have a lot of storyline going into it - fans cheered THE MATCH. HHH/Steiner had a months worth of pure storyline and the fans BOOED the match.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

I dont think any of us want a *pure wrestling* product w/o storylines.  However, we want storylines to be based AROUND matches, not the other way around.  There should be 20 minute matches and 5 minute promos.  There should be more of an emphasis placed on the competitive aspects in wrestling - guys should not be fighting over coffee or shampoo.

 

Benoit/Angle didn't have a lot of storyline going into it - fans cheered THE MATCH.  HHH/Steiner had a months worth of pure storyline and the fans BOOED the match.

Pure wrestling isn't bad sometimes. I mean, we get booked some matches out of nowhere, but it could always build to something and should sometime or another. To go with the how it should be done.

 

 

Reason why Benoit and Angle was cheered was because the storyline was built around the match. These guys made me wanna see the match. Benoit and Angle rarely had many confrontations, but when they did, the confrontations all were intense and they made it come alive.

 

Reason why Steiner and Triple H was booed (besides both being in quite poor shells of themselves) was because the match was built around the storyline. And frankly, how many of us got sick of how both men just couldn't make us feel like the match was worth wild except for how bad they could make it.

Edited April 4, 2003 by Lightning Flik

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I can pretty much well conclude that we are all in agreement here. The real issue comes in where to draw the line in terms of putting 'drama' in a storyline. We can all agree that 'Katie Vick' is way too far, but what about say, Lesnar and Sarah/Taker? I think it was incredibly useless and was just a way to make it 'personal' - not everything has to be 'personal'.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

I'll agree there. It doesn't have to be personal, just make it larger than life. Hell, when Benoit and Angle did it they did make it personal but for the God damned fucking belt. Not like Katie Vick or Sara Calloway or family of any type.

[Guest SP-1]

I think some people get annoyed with smarks in generaly because alot of us are ready to down something before it's had the chance to finish playing out. I think it probably gets a little frustrating to the boys that are working. Personally, I enjoy, as said above, storylines based AROUND the in-ring action, and I prefer the two to be linked together. That's really the only feasible way it can work.

 

But then you have things like with Hurricane, who pops up, does something, looks like they're doing something and then he falls off the radar again. The main event storylines get built up, but the undercard is hit and miss (and mostly misses, at least on RAW).

 

Sometimes it bewilders me that the basic people responsible for Smackdown are also responsible for RAW. If it weren't for Jericho, HBK, Rock, Austin, and Hurricane I'd probably become a permanent Smackdown fan. And I may yet do that once the PPV split comes down.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Oh, so you are saying we should give the WWE the benefit of the doubt?

 

um..

 

Why?

[Guest Brian]

Optimism kills the soul. Expect the least and you'll almost always be happy.

[Guest SP-1]

As a whole? Yes. Angle by angle? For a time. Some things you just know aren't working, no matter how hard they try though. And some things you can see a backstage chopping block being set up. There's definitely a strange balance.

 

For instance. Over on Smackdown things aren't that bad at all. You've got Matt Hardy as Cruiserweight champion, most matches are at the very least watchanble, and the storylines aren't overbearing. And, generally, things at least make SENSE over there. I can easily give SD! the benefit of the doubt, as a whole. Which means to some degree I know the WWE as a whole isn't entirely screwed up, so I can give them the benefit and hold out SOME hope that RAW is going to turn around somehow. I can think of ONE storyline on RAW that has been consistently built up and is still active since the first of the year, and that's Michaels/Jericho (for better or worse, I'm still waiting to see what happens). Things get chopped up and rebooted there fairly often. So no, I don't give RAW as a whole much credit. But I'll still watch it to catch the things I DO enjoy, and watch and see how other things play out and decide if I like what's going on. Due to SD I cannot completely count Vince and Co. out, but I also recognize the things that need fixing and see how they're changing and going. And if I don't like it, then I don't watch it or pay attention to it and concentrate on what I DO like.

 

So yes. The WWE on the whole I think still has what it takes. Smackdown shows this. Part of Smackdown's success is that it's the "wrestling" show while RAW is the "DRAWMUH" show, pretty much. Now if they can figure out the balance between the two we'd have something consistent and good. Smackdown's close enough that I can still watch and know it's possible.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

As a whole? Yes.

 

Oh goodness no. The only time I have given them the benefit of the doubt was with Angle/Lesnar - and they really didn't do much to validate my confidence in them.

 

Angle by angle? For a time.

 

The way I see it - 9/10 angles fail, and that 1 successful one generally isn't all that great.

 

For instance. Over on Smackdown things aren't that bad at all. You've got Matt Hardy as Cruiserweight champion, most matches are at the very least watchanble, and the storylines aren't overbearing.

 

You still have McMahon/Hogan taking up the main events and Hosses being pushed over Cruiserweights (literally, OVER them).

 

And, generally, things at least make SENSE over there. I can easily give SD! the benefit of the doubt, as a whole.

 

Stephanie as GM doesn't make sense. John Cena feuding with Brock Lesnar doesn't make sense. The tournament doesn't make sense (though I do like it - but that's mainly because I mark for tournaments). Sean Ohaire moving in and out of Smackdown doesn't make sense. Benoit vs. Albert for the 3rd time doesn't make sense (good match though). The FBI don't make sense...

 

Which means to some degree I know the WWE as a whole isn't entirely screwed up, so I can give them the benefit and hold out SOME hope that RAW is going to turn around somehow.

 

Here's how I see it. Vince McMahon has his head up his ass - the company will never get better until he takes it out... he seems very comfortable with it up there...

 

I can think of ONE storyline on RAW that has been consistently built up and is still active since the first of the year, and that's Michaels/Jericho (for better or worse, I'm still waiting to see what happens).

 

That hasn't been consistant at all. It makes sense if you take their first encounter on RAW after Armageddon and their last encounter on RAW before mania and that's about it. The rest was spotty.

 

So yes. The WWE on the whole I think still has what it takes.

 

No doubt the WWE has the potential to be really good - they just aren't coming CLOSE to living up to it.

 

Smackdown shows this. Part of Smackdown's success is that it's the "wrestling" show while RAW is the "DRAWMUH" show, pretty much.

 

Sable...Torrie...Piper...McMahon...Big Show... Hogan.... The "Smackdown is the Wrestling Show" is just a myth.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

Oh goodness no. The only time I have given them the benefit of the doubt was with Angle/Lesnar - and they really didn't do much to validate my confidence in them.

 

As a whole, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. As they are building up to things that look decent and still need to play out. And I mean currently in the works. As for Angle/Lesnar, look at Anglesault and know how much I thought of it.

 

The way I see it - 9/10 angles fail, and that 1 successful one generally isn't all that great.

 

It's actually getting better recently. Yet, not all things have played out so I can't say how it'll play out. But for right now, for all the feuds heading into Wrestlemania, I have to agree with you RRR. It's not been that great. After WM, it's been looking up, but that can be squashed.

 

You still have McMahon/Hogan taking up the main events and Hosses being pushed over Cruiserweights (literally, OVER them).

 

Yes, McMahon and Hogan have become the main event thing and I'm not happy. Considering I'm expecting Hogan to be off my TV for next week. Not I expect him to not be there, but I wouldn't be surprised if he showed. As for Cruiserweights being crushed by Hosses, it's nothing new. But after the Funaki/Tijiri incident last week. That was brutal.

 

Stephanie as GM doesn't make sense. John Cena feuding with Brock Lesnar doesn't make sense. The tournament doesn't make sense (though I do like it - but that's mainly because I mark for tournaments). Sean Ohaire moving in and out of Smackdown doesn't make sense. Benoit vs. Albert for the 3rd time doesn't make sense (good match though). The FBI don't make sense...

 

I agree that Steph as GM didn't really make too much sense. However, Cena's knee was busted up by Lesnar and Cena wants revenge. Standard stuff. The tourney does make sense seeing as if Angle was fully healed for WM, Backlash's main event would've been Angle vs Lesnar 2. As for O'Haire, I think that's more because of WM and that they wouldn't have been able to build anything onto the card. Benoit vs Albert makes sense seeing as anytime Albert faces Benoit, he gets better and also I'm expecting that it'll be Show/Albert vs Rhyno/Benoit at Backlash. The FBI thing doesn't make sense, but they seemingly are building to something with Jones/Taker and I need to see how that plays out before I'll pass judgement.

 

Here's how I see it. Vince McMahon has his head up his ass - the company will never get better until he takes it out... he seems very comfortable with it up there...

 

True.

 

That hasn't been consistant at all. It makes sense if you take their first encounter on RAW after Armageddon and their last encounter on RAW before mania and that's about it. The rest was spotty.

 

It has been spotty, but I think everyone at least cares more about it than the World Title Champion vs the next chump to come along. And it is one of the storylines that has been better than anything on Raw save Hurricane/Rock, which probably has died or gotten turned spotty.

 

No doubt the WWE has the potential to be really good - they just aren't coming CLOSE to living up to it.

 

I don't even think they've shown they've got the potential. With how bad Raw is, and the mediocre of SD, it's not showning there is room for growth. Which there is room for growth, since I see the birth of some good things.

 

Sable...Torrie...Piper...McMahon...Big Show... Hogan.... The "Smackdown is the Wrestling Show" is just a myth.

 

I don't know about you, but I saw wrestling today. And it was good. Will I see it after this week is another story.

Edited April 4, 2003 by Lightning Flik

[Guest SP-1]

I haven't watched my tape of it tonight so I don't know the effects of the new arrivals just yet.

 

I don't see the problem with Cena/Lesnar, personally. Cena's a fresh face, Cena's good in the ring, Cena's getting over, but we all know Cena won't go over anytime soon. Still should be a fun feud and a fun match come Backlash.

 

Stephanie as GM I can live with. She doesn't take up the TV time her old man does. Vince/Hogan I generally ignore so I'm with you there. Kendrick/Knoble/Hardy/Moore, Benoit's mere ring presence, Mysterio getting ring time, Rhyno, Team Angle, and the Guerrero's easily make up for whatever crap the rest puts out, IMO.

 

And really, with HBK/Jericho, it's a no-win situation. People don't like that it was "spotty", but if HBK got more TV Time with Jericho people wouldn't have liked that much either, I think. I enjoyed it, wished there could have been a little more interaction between them, and hope for the proper end to the feud when it comes. If HBK doesn't put him over I'll be unhappy with it but for now the Mania match itself will hold me over.

 

I just generally find what I like and concentrate on it and hope the rest gets better. Works for me, may not work for everyone. Once I really don't like something I just channel surf or play around on here during those segments and return when something interesting is happening.

 

Certainly not the best WWE has to offer. But there's enough that I like there to keep me watching.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The whole thing with Cena/Lesnar is that Lesnar in every match with Cena disposed of him easily. They could make the angle work with Cena gradually working up the ranks proving himself, but it probably won't happen. The tournament is too quick for him to become established and for us to forget about him being a relative jobber pre-WM. (If I were booking it, I'd have Cena/Benoit in the finals - Rhyno turns on Benoit - Heyman comes out after weeks in exile and says he master-minded the whole thing. Cena/Lesnar happens at Backlash, but something screwy goes on that causes the feud to go on to Judgementday. Rhyno/Benoit happens and that too continues on until Judgement day. Cena loses vs. Brock and Rhyno/Heyman turn on him. Rhyno/Brock leads you through the Summer.

 

Steph as GM is so stupid. I mean, this woman turns on Vince - buys ECW - loses at SS, comes back, manages to reunite with Vince, loses on RAW to HHH which states she is gone for good - and comes back. Add to that her crappy acting and confusing character and you got yourself a worthless GM.

 

Benoit validates most of the Hoss work. I generally catch SD just to watch him wrestle. I have a night school class so I miss the 7:00 showing so I have to catch the 11:00 - so I pick and choose what I want to see. Benoits matches and cruiserweights are pretty much well it. But every cruiserweight match to me is the WWE being stupid because they could be SO over but Vince won't let them. I can't help but think "If you give them the time you give Torrie Wilson they would give you 10x's more of a return".

[Guest treble charged]

I don't think we should really be surprised that Undertaker doesn't like the internet fans. I mean, we aren't exactly his most vocal supporters. If WWE DID listen to us, he'd be one of the first people out of a job.

 

You'll notice that, for the most part, the people who embrace the internet are the ones lower on the card (Hurricane, Storm, etc.) who would be headlining PPVs if it were up to most of us. Of course, there are people like Jericho who just can't get any of us to hate him, for whatever reason.

 

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, don't put too much stock into what the Undertaker is says about smarks. If I were him, I probably wouldn't like us, either.

[Guest treble charged]

Steph as GM is so stupid. I mean, this woman turns on Vince - buys ECW - loses at SS, comes back, manages to reunite with Vince, loses on RAW to HHH which states she is gone for good - and comes back. Add to that her crappy acting and confusing character and you got yourself a worthless GM.

Well, it sort of makes sense if you look at it as Vince hiring GMs as people who tried to put him out of business (Bischoff in real life, Steph storyline-wise). Vince wanted people with 'ruthless agression' and figured that since they were hard competitors, they'd do just fine.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

... And stipulations mean nothing.

[Guest treble charged]

Well, you should realize that by now.

 

'sides, Vince owns the company, so he can do whatever he wants, hire and fire people at will.

[Guest Dmann2000]

Optimism kills the soul. Expect the least and you'll almost always be happy.

That's a horrible attitude to have man. Open your heart to love. To Looooooove.

[Guest Dmann2000]

Of course, there are people like Jericho who just can't get any of us to hate him, for whatever reason.

Which makes me wonder, if this guy thinks we're a bunch of losers why do you still support the prick?

 

I mean why isn't anyone saying "fine Jericho you don't want to be a top guy, enjoy your burial"?