We were told to act different post 9/11

[Guest MrRant]

pa·tri·ot·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ptr--tzm)

n.

Love of and devotion to one's country.

 

Throwing it all out there yo.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Meh, I'm telling you, nationalism is like a snowballing effect which almost always leads into war and revolutions and dictatorships.

 

Patriotism is much more healthy with less drawbacks (blind belief in country, etc). You're at least allowed to criticize your country in patriotism.

[Guest MrRant]

Just accept that you are wrong. Snowballing doesn't count. Lots of things that start out good end up bad.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

It ALWAYS HAPPENS!

 

Every country which has had fierce nationalism has gone into some sort of a dictatorship or had a revolution of terrible proportions. All kidding aside with those dictators you "stuck up for", they're ALL the results of nationalism. It happens every time. That's why we have to be very careful here, and I'm not sure why you guys are pressing for more nationalism.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

We're pressing for Nationalism, because we're not gonna let some bad apples, rain on our parade.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I don't think you understand, what we think Nationalism means. Not how the Nazi's or Commies define it. But the actual definition. If you think it's horrible, to be Nationalistic so be it.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Like I said about seventeen times on this thread, we're showing the first signs of it with this "If you don't support the war/Bush/Republicans, you're a traitor!" shit. It's the *same* type of shit that these other terrible dictatorships have had. THAT is nationalism, not waving a fucking flag.

[Guest MrRant]

Wrong. LOOK AT THE DEFINITION. We are talking about the ACTUAL definition and that is what we would like to see. Not a twisted definition of it like the Nazi/Commies.

 

Perhaps you should do something about your hard on to make others believe what you believe.

 

Besides anyone can twist shit to fit their purpose... GreenPeace twists the definitions/facts of everything to suit their purpose and they are far worse than Bush in my mind.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

You obviously don't read world history at all.

 

In HISTORY TERMS, not looking it up at dictionary.com, nationalism is virtually extremism. It's this craze that any bad word spoken against your country is an act of treason... it's all about proving your country is the best, that your race is the superior one to everyone else. It's a terrible thing, and even though you're too ignorant to realize it, that doesn't change a damned thing.

 

But hey, dictionary.com is always right.

[Guest MrRant]

But... we are a mix of races so how are we proving that our race is better?

 

I don't see all those hippies, yippies and other protestors in jail. IT IS OK FOR US TO THINK THEY ARE WRONG.

 

If they are allowed to protest we are allowed to say they are wrong and doing a disservice to the country... RIGHT?

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

How are they doing a fucking disservice to the country by using their freedom to question whether or not we should be at war?

 

They're no less traitorous than the people who are MAKING these claims! Tom DeLay, who called JOHN KERRY a vile and unpatriotic traitor for questioning Bush, was a draft dodger! He called Kerry these things... and Kerry was a Vietnam war hero! For the love of God, don't you see where this craze is going? Please tell me you do!

[Guest MrRant]

I can think whatever I want. That is the other benefit of free speech. I'm just not saying what YOU want to hear and it pisses you off.

 

Boo Hoo as it goes both ways.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

And that's why you're the epitome of nationalistic evil.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

Whatever, this argument is stupid anyways; you don't have enough of a base in history to understand where my argument is coming from. Forget it, LET'S KILL THEM TRAITOROUS NAYSAYERS!

[Guest MrRant]

I understand your point... but you don't see mine or Verne's. You are one close-minded individual if I have ever seen one. And now you go running off like a baby.

 

It's kind of cool to the sole epitome of nationalistic evil.

 

I feel powerful.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

I don't understand yours?

 

How many times did I say "patriotism is alright" or a derivative on this thread? Go back and count.

 

I didn't ever say there is something wrong with national pride. NationalISM, on the other hand... IN ITS HISTORICAL CONTEXT... is a terrible, terrible thing.

[Guest MrRant]

You missed my point completely. I never once said it had never been misused. But there is nothing wrong with being Nationalistic. It depends on who is being Nationalistic.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Then why has every nationalist movement to date lead to a major war?

[Guest MrRant]

Wrong type of leaders.

 

Simple.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

...and nationalism aids in putting the wrong type of leaders into power. Every one of those nationalistic leaders played on the emotions and pride of the people to come into power, quite frankly.

 

Now, on the record, I don't think we're there yet... but the traitorous labels are a troubling start.

[Guest MrRant]

Umm... that is kindof like what all campaigning is. Dems do it, Repubs do it, Green party, etc. Major Corps do it. I do it.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Not in the same way.

[Guest MrRant]

There are different ways to play on someone's emotions? The method I am familiar with is using someone's emotions to sway them in your favor. If there is another way to do it... do tell as I will need to use it as well.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

These dictatorships come to be based on playing to the populace's nationalism and blaming a scapegoat for the country's problems...

 

...kinda sounds familiar, maybe we've started that, too.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Wrong type of leaders.

 

Simple.

Also Germany was in a the mist of a depression when Hitler came to power. They also had little experience with actual democracy.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

There were other nationalist movements besides Nazism, although that's the prime example.

[Guest MrRant]

Whom is are scapegoat for all the national problems? I have yet to see anything being blamed on any race or people yet.

 

We haven't blamed our school children being idiots on Saddam yet have we?

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

No, but we're blaming all the world's problems on Islam... it wouldn't be too large of a step to change "Islam" to "Arabs"

[Guest MrRant]

Might as well through the blacks in there too huh? Make it a good rounding out of "brown" people... but we'll keep them Asians so they can keep making our Nikes for 0.25 a day in wages.

 

I see where you are going. Paranoia is running wild in Tyler's house.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Uh, how many times have you said that we need to annihilate the Middle East?

 

I wouldn't call it paranoia.