Churches gear up for Christian invasion of Iraq

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

U.S. missionaries plan 'spiritual warfare' when fighting ends

 

By DOUG SAUNDERS

 

UPDATED AT 1:03 AM EDT Wednesday, Apr. 9, 2003

 

Washington is trying to portray its battle as one of liberation, not conquest, but Iraq is about to be invaded by thousands of U.S. evangelical missionaries who say they are bent on a "spiritual warfare" campaign to convert the country's Muslims to Christianity.

 

Among the largest aid groups preparing to provide humanitarian aid to Iraqis are a number of Christian charities based in the southern United States that make no secret of their desire to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ and win over Muslim souls.

 

The largest of these is the Southern Baptist Convention, an ardent supporter of the war as an opportunity to bring Christianity to the Middle East. It says it has 25,000 trained evangelists ready to enter Iraq.

 

"That would [mean] a heart change would go on in that part of the world," Mark Liederbach of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary said in a recent speech to the SBC. "That's what we need to be praying for. That's how a Christian wages spiritual warfare."

 

Such words have caused deep alarm among military and diplomatic authorities. Although Christian aid organizations have worked comfortably alongside secular groups in other conflicts, Muslims around the world are already suspicious of U.S. motives in Iraq, and the worry is that missionaries could reinforce the widespread popular belief that the war is really a "clash of civilizations" between Christians and Muslims.

 

Muslim groups say they believe the presence of evangelists is a sign that President George W. Bush is trying to impose his own evangelical Christianity on Muslims. It does not help that Mr. Bush became a born-again Christian with the assistance of Billy Graham, the founder of the SBC.

 

"This is creating a real serious problem of perception: Here we have an army invading Iraq, followed by a bunch of people who want to convert everyone to Christianity," said Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on Islamic-American Relations. "How's that going to look in the Muslim world? And how's it going to look that this guy says Muslims are evil and he's the guy who works with the President?"

 

Mr. Hooper was referring to Mr. Graham's son, Franklin, who runs the SBC. The younger Mr. Graham, who delivered the invocation at Mr. Bush's inauguration in 2001, has repeatedly gone on the record describing Islam as "wicked."

 

Mr. Graham has recently been more tolerant of Islam, but he has made it clear that the conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a goal for his volunteers.

 

"I believe as we work, God will always give us opportunities to tell others about His Son," he told the religious newsletter BeliefNet last week. "We are there to reach out to love them and to save them, and as a Christian, I do this in the name of Jesus Christ."

 

In response to criticism, many Christian aid groups, including Mr. Graham's, have toned down the religious messages.

 

In one major project, Baptist families have been asked to put together "gift of love" food boxes designed to provide a month's worth of basic nourishment to a family of five. "Please do not place any additional items/literature inside the box," the families are told.

 

While many evangelical aid workers are motivated by humanitarian desires, their mission statement makes it clear that they are required to attempt conversions: "It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ."

 

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/Articl...ternational/Idx

 

I guess these people are doing what they feel is the right thing, but this is what I've been saying will happen all along. We kick Saddam's ass, churches come in demanding that people abandon Allah, we lose another national landmark in the next 9/11.

[Guest Powerplay]

*Sighs* You know, some people need to lighten up and back off when it comes to religion. These guys, while meaning well, are just going in way too early and personally, I don't think they should go at all. Converting Musilims over there would be damn near impossible, and it won't help anyone in the long run. Hope I don't offend anyone, but that's just my view on this.

[Guest El Satanico]

ya know...stuff like this makes me sick.

 

Oh yeah, I'm so sure that going to muslim country preaching about "Allah is evil, Christ is the only god" is going to help oh so much.

 

Yeah why let them start not hating us(for taking out Saddam), when we can send in Bible weilders telling them that they are "godless heathens".

 

Hey maybe Fred Phelps will go and tell them to stop wearing what he'd call dresses because they look like "fags"

[Guest NoCalMike]

"You don't need this rice nearly as much as you need Jesus in your heart.....now REPENT DAMMIT"

[Guest El Satanico]

You'd think that after being fed to lions by the Romans, that Christians would've learned that you shouldn't try converting those who didn't ask to be

[Guest SP-1]

1. The ignorance about how Christians do these things portrayed in this thread so far is appaling. But anything for a cheap shot, I guess.

 

2. When it comes to charity organizations, they don't go over there and stand on street corners screaming about repentance. It appears that's what you all are expecting, and the article makes it out to be that way (an article obviously written with a sneering attitude). In truth, charity organizations that do that sort of thing have been around for quite some time, and the first goal is to provide aid and relief. The information about Christ is there, is available to those who want to listen but nobody ever straps anyone to a chair and forces their eyelids open.

 

Ever heard of the American Red Cross? Christian organization in origin, IIRC. Helped millions worldwide. But go aheada nd demean caring men and women who care about the welfare of hurting people. And remember it if you're ever in the middle of a terrorist attack and a Christian relief organization is one of the first on the scene to help you recieve attention.

[Guest SP-1]

In response to criticism, many Christian aid groups, including Mr. Graham's, have toned down the religious messages.

 

In one major project, Baptist families have been asked to put together "gift of love" food boxes designed to provide a month's worth of basic nourishment to a family of five. "Please do not place any additional items/literature inside the box," the families are told.

 

While many evangelical aid workers are motivated by humanitarian desires, their mission statement makes it clear that they are required to attempt conversions: "It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ."

 

For those that are not Christians and experienced with that, it means simply: put food in a box (you'll notice without any literature or anything) and send it to FEED PEOPLE WHO NEED IT. That's it. Nothing more.

 

As for the part about converting people, it doesn't mean preaching on streetcorner at gunpoint. It means simply displaying a christian attitude (read: acting right) while working over there and if anyone asks a question about it, explain it to them. If God works in their heart at that time, the non-christian in question may choose to pursue it. Or they may reject it. But it's certainly not the geurilla warfare people here seem to expect.

 

Also, the fear that Bush is pushing this is retarded. Christian groups have been providing relief and aid LONG before he was President, it's nothing new.

[Guest Mad Dog]

What Spider said.

[Guest Renegade]

U.S. missionaries plan 'spiritual warfare' when fighting ends

 

By DOUG SAUNDERS

 

UPDATED AT 1:03 AM EDT Wednesday, Apr. 9, 2003

 

Washington is trying to portray its battle as one of liberation, not conquest, but Iraq is about to be invaded by thousands of U.S. evangelical missionaries who say they are bent on a "spiritual warfare" campaign to convert the country's Muslims to Christianity.

 

Among the largest aid groups preparing to provide humanitarian aid to Iraqis are a number of Christian charities based in the southern United States that make no secret of their desire to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ and win over Muslim souls.

 

The largest of these is the Southern Baptist Convention, an ardent supporter of the war as an opportunity to bring Christianity to the Middle East. It says it has 25,000 trained evangelists ready to enter Iraq.

Did anyone else think of that southpark episode after reading that?

[Guest JangoFett4Hire]

Dead Kennedys put it best:

 

All religions make me wanna throw up

All religions make me sick

All religions make me wanna throw up

All religions suck

They all claim that they have the truth

That'll set you free

Just give 'em all your money and they'll set you free

Free for a fee

 

They all claim that they have 'the Answer'

When they don't even know the Question

They're just a bunch of liars

They just want your money

They just want your consciousness

 

[Chorus]

All religions suck

All religions make me wanna throw up

All religions suck

All religions make me wanna BLEAH

 

They really make me sick

They really make me sick

They really make me sick

They really make me sick

They really make me sick

They really make me ILL

[Guest Mad Dog]

I love how the very people that preach tolerance to everyone don't apply it to religion.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

There's a difference between relief aid and "missionary work".

 

Relief aid is... well, relief aid. Missionary work is giving them a bible along with their medicine. That, unfortunately, is completely wrong and is going to give the completely and utterly wrong message to these people. As I've said a few times on this forum, I'm a practicing Catholic; regardless of my religion, I know that sending people over there to CONVERT these refugees and citizens is a TERRIBLE move.

[Guest BDC]

Read what SP wrote again, please.

 

As for the idea of "converting the Godless heathens" that's not how it's done, unless you're someone like Fred Phelps, and since you don't do anything that way, it's obviously not right. All it involves is arriving with aid, being nice and helpful and if they ask, then you share the gospel.

 

Christians have learned (well, most of us) that shoving something down someone's throat means they'll only throw it back up on you.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

As for the idea of "converting the Godless heathens" that's not how it's done, unless you're someone like Fred Phelps, and since you don't do anything that way, it's obviously not right. All it involves is arriving with aid, being nice and helpful and if they ask, then you share the gospel.

 

Never said that.

 

However, they're gonna give them aid, give them a bible, and preach about it. Maybe they won't beat them over the fucking head with a shoe, but they're gonna preach no matter what.

 

Don't talk down to me when you don't know what you're talking about.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well, to these people giving them food and preaching to them about Christ while doing so isn't necessarily relief aid, but almost like implied conversion like "we're giving you this food because we're CHRISTIAN HINT, HINT". When you're hungry and uneducated, as many people in Iraq are, you could be willing to believe just about anything..

 

My mom's boyfriend had to live in Saudi Arabia for 18 months because he's an airline pilot, and he told me that water is more expensive than gas, all people do is pray and argue, and that he got paychecks only when there was a full moon. WTF? But anyways, this war TOTALLY reeks of the Crusades, and if Saddam realyl wants to seem like a martyr fightign for a noble cause, he could really go full out with this whole last stand in Tikrit thing, playing the new Saladin against the Bush-led crusades..

[Guest SP-1]

Tyler, I'm not trying to sound condescending, but did you miss this part?

 

In one major project, Baptist families have been asked to put together "gift of love" food boxes designed to provide a month's worth of basic nourishment to a family of five. "Please do not place any additional items/literature inside the box," the families are told.

 

They're not sandwiching Bibles in between the green beans and the corn here. They're sending food. They're bandaging wounds. They're doing it in the name of Christ and there's nothing wrong with that as long as they're not saying, "No Conversion, No Band-Aid, Abdul." And they're not.

 

And Vitamin X, I'm a bit confused . . . how in the world is this war ANYTHING like the Crusades?

[Guest SP-1]

Plus, I'd like to point out that the term "Spiritual Warfare" is taken out of context and misapplied for the most part here. Journalistic Ignorance designed to stir up the kinds of feelings that immediately came to play in the responses in this thread.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

The largest of these is the Southern Baptist Convention, an ardent supporter of the war as an opportunity to bring Christianity to the Middle East. It says it has 25,000 trained evangelists ready to enter Iraq.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Mr. Graham has recently been more tolerant of Islam, but he has made it clear that the conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a goal for his volunteers.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

While many evangelical aid workers are motivated by humanitarian desires, their mission statement makes it clear that they are required to attempt conversions: "It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ."

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Sorry, SP, you're wrong.

[Guest SP-1]

How am I wrong? The only things those statements say is that those Christians are doing the same things they would do in relief efforts right here in the USA. "Trained Evangelists" simply means they have a simpler way of explaining the gospel . . . if someone inquires.

 

Bringing people to Christ is a Christian activity no matter what you're doing or where you are. Whether it's me living well and attempting to set a Christlike example around my peers and parents, at my job, or in Iraq. We are ALL called to that as Christians. People are taking those quotes and trying to make into a special mission that these people are doing only in Iraq.

 

Simply, being an Evangelist simply means knowing how to explain it. It doesn't mean going over and force-feeding it to people. We are called to spread the gospel no matter where we go. Missionaries are often doing the same work as relief workers because loving people and helping them is as much a part of it as anything else. The article and it's detractors are distorting the actions stated there into more than what they are.

 

The term, "Spiritual Warfare" applies to me sitting in my room with Porn ads popping up on my computer. It's personally fending off sinful desires and urges and thoughts with Christ, not arming to the teeth and slicing people's throats if they never ask about Christ or if they reject him after learning about him.

 

So no, Tyler. I'm not wrong. The way it's portrayed in the article and the ways it's being construed are wrong. As someone that's been involved with the Church and has watched missions items being put together and supports Missionaries in other countries (sometimes dangerous countries for Christians), I know the deal, and I know how it's generally done.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

THE GUY WAS QUOTED SAYING THEY'RE GOING OVER THERE TO CONVERT THEM!

 

Jesus, man, I KNOW what you're trying to say (that they promote a Christian lifestyle by being good people, etc.) but it's simply NOT true! He said it himself! His primary motivation is to CONVERT them!

[Guest SP-1]

Every Christian has to keep in mind that the opportunity to convert someone is right around the corner. The main purpose of going over there is relief work. If God moves Iraqi people to be converted into Christians then His people are there to see it through, but not to force it on them. THAT is the kind of conversion Missionaries perform. Helping people first, and helping the people that want to get there accept Christ. That's it. Hell, I know people that have visited other countries and helped build villages. They didn't require the family that lives in the structure they helped build become Christians. They did it out of love. ALWAYS do it out of love. Otherwise, it's absolutely worthless.

[Guest EricMM]

Guys guys, I think it's safe to assume that we will see a little of each in the coming months.

 

There will surely be some people who go over there and provide food and stuff and help people out and if people ask they tell. And I'm sure there will also be people who go over there and will hand out sandwiches with a tract.

 

Maybe one approach is better than another, but I think they'll BOTH happen...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

READ THE MAN'S QUOTE.

 

You're trying to tell me that this is what they do... BUT HE IS SAYING IT HIMSELF THAT THE MAIN GOAL IS TO CONVERT THEM. I've done mission work myself; I went to Catholic school for 9 years. Guess what? THIS GUY ISN'T A NORMAL CHRISTIAN RELIEF WORKER. HE WANTS TO GO AND CONVERT EVERYONE TO ANN COULTER'S DREAM WORLD!

 

Dude, READ the article! I know you're trying to spin it into normal evangelistical work, but it's NOT! He's going over there to convert people and pretty much nothing more! His quotes completely tell you what he's trying to do. He doesn't even deny it!

[Guest SP-1]

I'm sure they both will. The second kind is WRONG, IMO and I don't support that kind of work. I believe in letting God naturally maneuver the unsaved into the opportunity to hear. Don't force it on them. Even ministries that go out on the beach and such to minister to people don't force it. Present the information and let the interested stick around and the disinterested leave.

 

That's how most missionaries work.

[Guest SP-1]

The ARTICLE spins it into what it appears to be. The wording of the article, the mis-use of terms, all tell me that it was written with a sneering, anti-Christian slant. I wouldn't be surprised it parts were left out of the interview and whatknot.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

How can that be a misquote? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HE SAID HE WANTED TO CONVERT THEM! I DON'T SEE HOW THAT CAN BE SPUN!

 

The largest of these is the Southern Baptist Convention, an ardent supporter of the war as an opportunity to bring Christianity to the Middle East. (emphasis added)

 

but he has made it clear that the conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a goal for his volunteers.

 

Not a wonderful collateral, A GOAL.

 

The younger Mr. Graham, who delivered the invocation at Mr. Bush's inauguration in 2001, has repeatedly gone on the record describing Islam as "wicked."

 

their mission statement makes it clear that they are required to attempt conversions

[Guest SP-1]

"It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ."

 

The great Comission, as it is called, is entirely biblical. To spread the gospel and live well. It's not a Mission Statement specifically for the Iraq efforts. It's a mission statement shared by every Church that is part of the true body of Christ.

verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle

, AKA, talk about it normally when able and the other person has been moved to talk about the subject, and live well, AKA love one another and provide food, shelter, and aid. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a big special thing for Iraq, it should be the mission for every Christian and Catholic.