Churches gear up for Christian invasion of Iraq

[Guest MrRant]

There is plenty of reading on Catholism since it is to be honest the most interesting of the denominations.

[Guest SP-1]

Aye. I've concerned myself more with Protestant history and doctrine since I'm majoring in Pastoral Ministry when I leave for school in August.

[Guest MrRant]

Pfft... I already am a minister. I own you.

[Guest SP-1]

How is the No Ma'am Church anyway? Still thriving?

[Guest Zero_Cool]

I remember there being a No Maam church, but I think we forgot to do anything, or something.

[Guest MrRant]

No enough people stay faithful to the cause.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

If I could go back to the original topic for the moment here. I have read parts of the Koran and the Holy bible. I have taken classes on both of them. I have done reading on quite a few religions for that matter. And while I was reading the early chapters of the Koran I notice that they are just a split off the Christian belief system as Christianity is to Judaism. So why would anyone need to convert people who already believe in the same fucking god? That is like telling people they need to convert from golden dollars to paper dollars when both mean the same shit. The Jewish Word for God=El. The word El evolved into Allah by broken speech then converted into English. So the text really is more of the same.

 

As for No Ma'am, I am still a member of the church with weekly meetings every Thursday night here in Stamford. I don't have the banners because I try not to have too many pics in my sig so those on dialups don't have to wait forever for a page to load. And I still do hate the French.

[Guest SP-1]

Christianity isn't attempting to claim it's a different God. Christianity is, at it's root, about God handling the inherent problem of sin. That's the major difference between Christianity/Catholocism, and other religions that stem from that vein.

[Guest iamsherm]

but its WAY TOO EARLY to go in.

This has been repeated numerous times throughout this thread and I got to ask why? Why is it too early to go in? Would you rather we wait a little longer and let the Iraqi people starve some more? I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking anybody, but I say let the humanitarian efforts begin as soon as it's safe for the workers to be there.

[Guest deadbeater]

Um, spider, Muslims already believe in Christ. They also believe that Mohammed was the last of the main prophets, sort of the end of some unified theory of prophecy. This missionary's task is for the listener to reject Islam and Mohammed.

[Guest SP-1]

Um, spider, Muslims already believe in Christ. They also believe that Mohammed was the last of the main prophets, sort of the end of some unified theory of prophecy. This missionary's task is for the listener to reject Islam and Mohammed.

Not quite. The name is the same but the person and his importance are way different.

 

Christianity

Second person of the Trinity. He is the word who became flesh (John 1:1, 14). He is both God and man (Col. 2:9).

 

Islam

A very great prophet, second only to Muhammad. Jesus is not the son of God (9:30) and certainly is not divine (5:17, 75)) and he was not crucified (4:157).

 

Massive difference in who Jesus is regarded as. So there is indeed a point to spreading the Gospel to Islamic people. They are not the same. Their version of the Holy Spirit also changes things a bit, as they attribute it to Gabriel.

[Zorin Industries 0]

But in the end you are all people of the same God, why SHOULD it matter how you worship if it all goes to the same diety in the end?

[Guest SP-1]

Denying the Trinity denies who God is, biblically. Technically, when it branched away it branched away from the definition of God. The, "it's the same God," argument is in the same vein as what the Mormons use, too.

 

And it's not really a worship issue. It's a, "Taking care of sin," issue.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

Each religion deals with sin differently, but it is still the same god. They don't believe Jesus was devine, neither do Jews. Both still believe in the same god. El(pronuced Ella) is Jewish word for god. Allah is the Islamic word for god. God is the Christrian word for god. Same person/being/figure, just a different name. Matter of fact, Christians/Jews also use Yawah for god. So it still doesn't matter. The holy Koran and the Holy Bible(weather Jewish or Christian) all believe in God. And that is all that matters. What you can or can't eat doesn't mean jack shit. It really is what your spritial connection to god is.

 

So, to sum up my point. Why the fuck do they need to convert people to a relgion which in essense is a STEP BACK in their belief system.

[Guest SP-1]

Because at the core, Jesus is the only way to deal with the problem of sin. The works-based approaches that these other religions take doesn't work (I word it that way as a Christian myself so just consider it the base Christian approach). Jesus is the way God decided to handle it and the most logical way considering the enormity of the problem and the covenant/sacrifice system that He set up throughout the Old Testament. So Jesus is then a central figure for the atonement of the problem of Sin, the way that God ordained and set up to handle the problem. That is why conversion is viewed as neccessary.

 

And you cannot make a blanket statement about God. God is not a thing, not a magic genie there to grant wishes or an inanimate object that controls things. He's a person. If you and I both know people named Steve, we can't say that since they're named Steve they must be one and the same. The way that the person of God and how He handles things differs, especially when you get to the advent of Christ.

 

For instance.

 

Mormons claim that they are Christian because they very loosely involve the Bible in their doctrine. However, they distort it's meaning dramatically and use the "revelation" to their founder to form radically different views of who God was and is, including who Jesus was/is and who/what the Holy Spirit was/is. They do not involve God. They involve a figure that they named and distort things to fit their needs using a companion book to support their doctrines. They totally ignore crucial things and tend to use the book of James as backup and they misinterperet it on several levels. They, too, are a works based religion, AND they massively distort the person of God.

 

Christianity is not works based. It has a central figure that handles the problem of Sin, which a loving God provided because in the end we're unable to.

 

So yes. It does matter.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

What you can say about Mormons doing with the Bible is misinterpereting it, you can say Christianty is misinterpereting the Jewish Bible. If you look at it, it is a very subjective subject to say what is the right relgion. And I don't want to get into a debate about what is the "Right" religion because it is too subjective to say what is and isn't a good religion.

 

But you can not say that they aren't the same god because fact of the matter is this. The Koran says that Jews and Christians believe in the same god. Koran also admits to sharing the same god. That is all that matters. What religion a person is none of anyone's business. But each religion has a god. But who is right under god is what makes it all messy. One can say Jesus just a made a religion where he was on a higher level than anyone else and just had a cult like following. But I don't really agree with this. I do agree that Christianty wouldn't be so wide spread if the Roman Empire didn't make it the offical.

 

To make a point of this. No matter what you want to say about Christianty, it is still a subjective view on what you beleive. If this country wants others to follow with demoarcy and our bill of rights. They should be able to have its citizens respect the religion of others there and not try to convert others. And I was pointing out that is stupid for them to try to convert others when it is basicly the same god, just different structure of beliefs. And this is coming from a Dietist.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

What you can say about Mormons doing with the Bible is misinterpereting it, you can say Christianty is misinterpereting the Jewish Bible. If you look at it, it is a very subjective subject to say what is the right relgion. And I don't want to get into a debate about what is the "Right" religion because it is too subjective to say what is and isn't a good religion.

 

They should be able to have its citizens respect the religion of others there and not try to convert others.

1. How do Christians misinterpret the Jewish Bible? Everything about Christ occurs in the New Testament, which incidentally, is not included in the Torah.

 

2. SP never said Christianity is the right religion. He made a very valid argument of Jesus dealing with the problem of sin. And he said, "That is why conversion is viewed as neccessary."

 

3. First, the bill of rights has nothing to do with the way private citizens treat each other. Second, on a philosophical level, you inherently disrespect Christians when you call on them to deny their beliefs as the right religion. Also, how does one respect a religion that views conversion as a necessity?

 

However... "What you can or can't eat doesn't mean jack shit. It really is what your spritial connection to god is." True dat.

[Guest SP-1]

This is also a question of what you view as conversion. ME, you make it sound as if we're holding people at gunpoint and forcing them to accept Christ (a futile maneuver, as it wouldn't be a true decision from the heart). "Conversion" is being thrown about, and it's a very cold, methodical word to use. In reality, Christians just present the information, and if God moves you to go with it at the time, that's awesome. If He doesn't, we're not going to shoot you dead for it.

 

You sound almost as if you think that truth is relative. Which is an argument that I really hope you're not presenting because personally, I feel it's ludicrous. Truth is truth. Untruth is untruth. God either did something or He did not. He is either presently doing things or he is not. He either is who He is, or He is not. I personally don't believe in a gray area because if you believe in that you're admitting that you don't truly believe in anything. Only that you believe in what might be. Which you won't find in Christianity, Islam, or the Jewish faith. Conversion is, at it's core, someone coming to a decision that they feel they were wrong, and discarding one notion completely for another. But there's no middle ground. I wouldn't want to live in a world where there was.