The Middle East loses years of history in two days

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Pillagers Strip Iraqi Museum Of Its Treasure

 

The National Museum of Iraq recorded a history of civilizations that began to flourish in the fertile plains of Mesopotamia more than 7,000 years ago. But once American troops entered Baghdad in sufficient force to topple Saddam Hussein's government this week, it took only 48 hours for the museum to be destroyed, with at least 170,000 artifacts carried away by looters.

 

The full extent of the disaster that befell the museum only came to light today, as the frenzied looting that swept much of the capital over the previous three days began to ebb.

 

As fires in a dozen government ministries and agencies began to burn out, and as looters tired of pillaging in the 90-degree heat of the Iraqi spring, museum officials reached the hotels where foreign journalists were staying along the eastern bank of the Tigris River. They brought word of what is likely to be reckoned as one of the greatest cultural disasters in recent Middle Eastern history.

 

A full accounting of what has been lost may take weeks or months. The museum had been closed during much of the 1990's, and like many Iraqi institutions, its operations were cloaked in secrecy under Mr. Hussein.

 

So what officials told journalists today may have to be adjusted as a fuller picture comes to light. It remains unclear whether some of the museum's priceless gold, silver and copper antiquities, some of its ancient stone and ceramics, and perhaps some of its fabled bronzes and gold-overlaid ivory, had been locked away for safekeeping elsewhere before the looting, or seized for private display in one of Mr. Hussein's myriad palaces.

 

What was beyond contest today was that the 28 galleries of the museum and vaults with huge steel doors guarding storage chambers that descend floor after floor into unlighted darkness had been completely ransacked.

 

Officials with crumpled spirits fought back tears and anger at American troops, as they ran down an inventory of the most storied items that they said had been carried away by the thousands of looters who poured into the museum after daybreak on Thursday and remained until dusk on Friday, with only one intervention by American troops, lasting about half an hour, at lunchtime on Thursday.

 

Nothing remained, museum officials said, at least nothing of real value, from a museum that had been regarded by archaeologists and other specialists as perhaps the richest of all such institutions in the Middle East.

 

As examples of what was gone, the officials cited a solid gold harp from the Sumerian era, which began about 3360 B.C. and started to crumble about 2000 B.C. Another item on their list of looted antiquities was a sculptured head of a woman from Uruk, one of the great Sumerian cities, dating from about the same era, and a collection of gold necklaces, bracelets and earrings, also from the Sumerian dynasties and also at least 4,000 years old.

 

But an item-by-item inventory of the most valued pieces carried away by the looters hardly seemed to capture the magnitude of what had occurred. More powerful, in its way, was the action of one museum official in hurrying away through the piles of smashed ceramics and torn books and burned-out torches of rags soaked in gasoline that littered the museum's corridors to find the glossy catalog of an exhibition of "Silk Road Civilizations" that was held in Japan's ancient capital of Nara in 1988.

 

Turning to 50 pages of items lent by the Iraqi museum for the exhibition, he said that none of the antiquities pictured remained after the looting. They included ancient stone carvings of bulls and kings and princesses; copper shoes and cuneiform tablets; tapestry fragments and ivory figurines of goddesses and women and Nubian porters; friezes of soldiers and ancient seals and tablets on geometry; and ceramic jars and urns and bowls, all dating back at least 2,000 years, some more than 5,000 years.

 

"All gone, all gone," he said. "All gone in two days."

 

Right-wing arguement: This is extremely unfortunate, but such is the price of war.

Left-wing arguement: See, this is why we never should have gone to war!

 

 

I'm somewhere in the middle, I think. I know soldiers aren't policemen and aren't trained to do anything more than shoot at people, but where the hell are the Military Police at? The Geneva Convention says the Coalition is responsible for restoring order.

[Guest WhenDanSaysJump]

That sucks, but given the choice between a museum full of amazing historical artefacts and, say, a school full of kids, I'll pick the museum to be bombed every time.

[Guest Anglesault]

Yes, freedom vs. history. Hard choice. I know, why don't we go back in time and leave Saddam there. The people will be horribly oppressed, but at least they'll have a fucking museum.

[Zorin Industries 0]

If it were up to me the people who did this would be rounded up and executed.

 

If there is one thing I hate most in the world, it is the willfull destruction of unique historcal items.

[Guest cartman]

Hey maybe Saddam was killing and torturing those people for a reason...

[Guest Powerplay]

Hey maybe Saddam was killing and torturing those people for a reason...

Man, you keep making it worse for yourself...

 

Anyways, this is a big tragedy, though I'm willing to accept it for a dictatorless Iraq. Present problems > Historical Relics sometimes.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

This brings back memories of when the Taliban destroyed those 1500-year-old statues in Afghanistan a few years back...

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

That sucks, but given the choice between a museum full of amazing historical artefacts and, say, a school full of kids, I'll pick the museum to be bombed every time.

This is not a life/goods equation. The people could have both the items and their lives. The regime has already left you see.

 

The point you seem to be missing is that the items in the museums are priceless, and absolutely irreplacable. My complaint is that, for some reason (most likely so as not to appear as "conquerors"), we're just letting this stuff go on. Not an MP in sight almost anywhere in the city.

 

And yeah, you can say "well, it IS just a museum, it's not worth staking life over" but why have 49 out of 50 hospitals in the city been looted too?

 

All that had to be done was to put one tank and a few troops in this area and looting would be detered.

 

Anglesault:

I know, why don't we go back in time and leave Saddam there. The people will be horribly oppressed, but at least they'll have a fucking museum.

 

The point is that the coalition forces should be trained to restore order to a lawless city. Everyone was expecting this to happen, and it's not a suprise. The point I have been making all along in this debate is that YOU DON'T WIN THIS WAR JUST BY BEATING THE OTHER GUY'S ARMY. The occupation must be done right, and yet it seems it's barely an afterthought.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

I'm guessing that if these were Judeo-Christian artifacts, an effort would've been made to save them. As is, this is a tragedy, but half the stuff is going to show up on the black market as soon as the troops pull out anyway.

[Guest ISportsFan]

If it were up to me the people who did this would be rounded up and executed.

 

If there is one thing I hate most in the world, it is the willfull destruction of unique historcal items.

More than the distruction of human life?

 

I know that's probably not what you meant, but still.

 

Jason

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Worthless post, nevermind.

Edited April 14, 2003 by Jobber of the Week

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Wow, that's sickening, but I can't say it's a surprise. You've got to think, these people have been DESTITUTE for decades, what with sanctions, and Saddam being a cocksucker and all.

 

Armies are invading the city. There are no cops, you're poor, and a big gold thing is in an unoccupied building down the street, with the power knocked out.

[Guest EricMM]

My complaint is that, for some reason (most likely so as not to appear as "conquerors"), we're just letting this stuff go on. Not an MP in sight almost anywhere in the city.

 

Don't you think it's a little WEIRD that someone who didn't want troops to go into a country is now making demands on these same troops?

 

Do you always need to find fault?

 

It's a shame these people lost these items. Really. But I am sick of the CONSTANT NITPICKING. I can't fucking watch the news anymore, without some Dem, and let me say that I am a liberal, but some democrat WHINING about every little thing.

 

This is why no one cares! All they can do is bitch about what Bush is doing wrong. I'm sick of it. I'd like to read one post by a liberal that does not read something like "President Bush did ______ and he was wrong/stupid to do it.

 

Lordy lordy lordy.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Don't you think it's a little WEIRD that someone who didn't want troops to go into a country is now making demands on these same troops?

Not really. A big arguement about the risks of war was how we have one of the greatest military minds in the world. Therefore, it shouldn't come as to a big shock to the higher-ups that removing a government pretty much makes chaos.

 

Tom Clancy once blew away Bill OReilly in a debate over the Mexican border, stating that soldiers aren't trained to be policemen. I agree, but there ARE Military Police trained for these occasions.

 

This is why no one cares!  All they can do is bitch about what Bush is doing wrong.

 

Did I say this is Bush's responsiblity? No. He doesn't make decisions such as who goes in what Battallion and where people are stationed.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Don't you think it's a little WEIRD that someone who didn't want troops to go into a country is now making demands on these same troops?

Not really. A big arguement about the risks of war was how we have one of the greatest military minds in the world. Therefore, it shouldn't come as to a big shock to the higher-ups that removing a government pretty much makes chaos.

 

Tom Clancy once blew away Bill OReilly in a debate over the Mexican border, stating that soldiers aren't trained to be policemen. I agree, but there ARE Military Police trained for these occasions.

 

This is why no one cares!  All they can do is bitch about what Bush is doing wrong.

 

Did I say this is Bush's responsiblity? No. He doesn't make decisions such as who goes in what Battallion and where people are stationed.

You ARE aware that, according to experts, the museum was NOT hit by random "looters" but, instead, it a well-orchestrated plan that was likely in the works for a while, right?

 

Replicas weren't touched and unless you flat-out KNOW your stuff, you'll take the replicas because it isn't easy to tell the difference.

 

The whole thing doesn't come across as the work of "looters" at all.

-=Mike

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Yeah, I know that now. That was a development we didn't have a week ago. Doesn't make my point any less valid, but there you go.

 

Seems local police are slowly being established to restore order though.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Yeah, I know that now. That was a development we didn't have a week ago. Doesn't make my point any less valid, but there you go.

 

Seems local police are slowly being established to restore order though.

It DOES make your point MUCH less valid.

 

Why is the U.S military --- which is STILL trying to completely secure Baghdad --- expected to stop looting done by people who have probably been planning this whole thing for a long while?

 

Absurd.

-=Mike

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Excuse me pal, I've said time and again the soldiers are trained only to shoot and aren't expected to be police officers.

 

However, there is a division called the MILITARY POLICE that is trained in both occupations.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Excuse me pal, I've said time and again the soldiers are trained only to shoot and aren't expected to be police officers.

 

However, there is a division called the MILITARY POLICE that is trained in both occupations.

And you'd expect them to be in a city we captured inside of 24 hrs of the city's capture?

 

They're soldiers --- not psychics.

-=Mike