How big of a reality is it that.....

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well, I am not ready just yet to fully say that Syria is absolutely next for sure, however I have heard "Syria" come out of the mouths of all the members of this administration more in the last week or so than the last year, so my suspicions are pretty high. Especially with comments about how "syria has ALWAYS been on a high list of terrorist nations" stuff like that coming out as the war with Iraq is seemingly starting to wind down(the combat part at least). So what does everyone think about Syria being next, or do you even think we are going to go through with that? Also if we do, what is your feeling about the fear that it will create for the people of other middle eastern countries who are gonna ALWAYS feel they are next?

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

100%

 

The rhetoric has already started.

[Guest Vyce]

I think we'll make a lot of threats, and we'll bully them a bit, but I think it will stop short of actual military conflict. We need to turn up the heat, seeing as there are numerous reports that, at the least, they're allowing fighters to cross the border into Iraq, and at worst they're giving sanctuary to fleeing Iraqi military / civil authorities and are safekeeping Iraq's WMD. We'll turn the pressure on, but I don't actually think we'll go to war with them as well. But who knows, things can change.

 

Also if we do, what is your feeling about the fear that it will create for the people of other middle eastern countries who are gonna ALWAYS feel they are next?

 

I feel GOOD.

 

The speed with which we conquered (effectively, it is conquered) Iraq I think has probably stunned a few Arab nations, possibly many nations around the world. We essentially conquered the entire nation in 3 weeks, and that's WITH multiple problems (troop deployment into Northern Iraq, supply shortages, weather conditions). Granted, Iraq wasn't much of a challenge, but many of the other Arab nations aren't much more (if that) of a threat militarily than Iraq was.

 

They're ALWAYS going to hate us. ALWAYS. But we might be able to put the fear of Allah into them, and perhaps get some sort of grudging respect, if not for our country / culture, than for our military power.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

They're ALWAYS going to hate us. ALWAYS. But we might be able to put the fear of Allah into them, and perhaps get some sort of grudging respect, if not for our country / culture, than for our military power.

My sentiments, exactly.

 

The easiest way for Arab, nay, all nations to not feel "next" is to cut all state-sponsored terrorism, actively search out and eliminate other terrorists in their country, provide us with info on all terrorist groups they know of, and stop providing aid and comfort to our enemies.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Umm, but you don't want the "fear of allah" in them. Living in fear is exactly what breeds terrorism. If you are a bunch of defeated countrymen with no army and no country left and your only hope to inflict damage is to strap on a bomb and do a suicide bombing, well then that scenario becomes a lot more likely. Also, I don't mean that the regimes/leaders of the country are in fear(that I am ok with). I am talking more about the actual citizens of these countries that are gonna feel like their cities could be bombed at anytime. It is almost gonna be like the cuban missle crisis for them, where they know missles and bombs are pointed at them, and one wrong move will set them off. I just don't like mindset that is going to put people in. Of course we won't know for a couple years people's true reaction to this war and what kind of hate propaghanda it produced.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

All of this "You're next" crap is going to scare some country so bad that instead of just waiting to be next or trying to do anything about it to stop it from going to the next step, they'll probably attack us first. Im specifically thinking of North Korea.

 

And of course North Korea DOES have nuclear capabilities and COULD use them against targets on U.S. soil..but nevermind them for now..

[Guest WhenDanSaysJump]

My bold prediction : USA vs Middle Eastern terrorism is going to be a constant, ongoing, worldwide-scale version of Northern Ireland for decades to come.

 

How fucking depressing.

[Guest Kingpk]

I think this is just the administration using the political capital they have gotten from this war to try to kind of push countries to change their minds about some things. Just look at some of the things this war has done:

 

- The Arab world is in shock that a regime they thought would repel the Americans fell so quickly.

 

- North Korea is spreading the word that they are interested in multilateral talks, almost a 180 from their previous position.

 

- If Iraq becomes a successful democratic country, that would give serious ammuntion to the Iranian reformers who want to take power from the Islamic government.

 

- France, Germany and Russia are practically saying "We're sorry we doubted you, please take us back."

 

If the US focuses it's energies on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and is successful in creating a Palestinian state and achieving peace, that will go a LONG way in improving the US's image in the Middle East, IMO.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

This wouldn't even be a war.

 

Iraq had the strongest military of all the regimes we've invaded. Syria would be almost nothing by comparison.

 

This is "I just beat the shit out of your neighbor, don't act up" diplomacy, pure and simple.

[Guest Some Guy]

This wouldn't even be a war.

 

Iraq had the strongest military of all the regimes we've invaded. Syria would be almost nothing by comparison.

 

This is "I just beat the shit out of your neighbor, don't act up" diplomacy, pure and simple.

My thoughts exactly. Except instead of "don't act up" I would put "get your shit together or you're next". I love this type of dyplomacy because we have 90% control and you know that the leaders of Syria are shitting their pants right and we haven't even turned up the heat at all on them.

 

BTW, Syria has always been high on the list of terroist harboring states, they were mentioned countless times after 9/11.

 

We won't go right into another war with a country unless we have to. There are still terrorists in Afghnistan, Iraq needs a lot of work, and we have to deal with Korea and I suppose Israel and Palestine. I think we'd be best set to doing some rebuilding right know rather than de-building.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Of course, these "oh yeah, try and stop us!" wars don't smack of dictatorism AT ALL when Bush is doing it.

 

No siree Bob.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

I swear, one more comparison of our president to a dictator and my foot's going through the screen. What a moronic statement.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Yeah! I mean, we're ALWAYS fighting the good fight! We have to be! Our name is America, for chrissakes, and we're doing the correct thing 100% of the goddamn time.

 

Ok I can see Iraq, but now this is going a little far. Unlike Iraq, the "evidence" may not be so clear or convincing. He's definately going to get nowhere near the support for attacking Syria that he did for attacking Iraq. God, get this guy out of office!

[Guest NoCalMike]

I just kind of find it funny that this country was supposedly heralded(sp?) as some huge threat to our national security and we just wiped the floor with them in 20 days. What in the hell have they shown or we shown that shows they were any type of threat? Yah and since we haven't found any adequate amounts of WMD, I supposed Rumsfield will say that Syria is hiding them all in their country.

[Guest Powerplay]

Ok I can see Iraq, but now this is going a little far. Unlike Iraq, the "evidence" may not be so clear or convincing. He's definately going to get nowhere near the support for attacking Syria that he did for attacking Iraq. God, get this guy out of office!

Actually, evidence may be far easier to get since Syria is widely known for supporting terrorism for a long time now.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Actually, evidence may be far easier to get since Syria is widely known for supporting terrorism for a long time now.

...I hate to be cliche, but it's like a modern day whichhunt.

 

The problem I foresee is terrorists and their supporters hating the US even more because of an attack on Syria. Not that they don't hate us already, but many countries are already pissed at us for Iraq. We need to at least repair the global relations that Iraq caused before we go and attack more terrorism supporters.

 

Going all Ronald Reagan on several different countries at the same time would work if it was for a good reason, but the threat of terrorism is a constantly shifting target that can never be eradicated through war, and we risk making a whole new generation of Osama Bin Ladens by rampaging throughout the Arab states with weapons of war, and doing almost nothing to convince the world that this is not a war on Islam.

[Guest Some Guy]

Of course, these "oh yeah, try and stop us!" wars don't smack of dictatorism AT ALL when Bush is doing it.

 

No siree Bob.

Was that directed at me?

 

I said that we shouldn't go right into another war and concentrate on rebuilding. I like this type of dyplomacy for reasons mentioned in my last post, it forces the issue and compliance. We have all the leverage.

 

Telling a country that wants to kill us to stop and threatening them with killing them if they don't seems like the obvious thing to do, not dictatorism.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Actually, it wasn't. It was about Vyce's comment about how "They'll always hate us. Always."

 

That was the stupidest comment since I heard someone say "They do not love their children. They are filled with hate for everything."

 

I mean, really. MEGA-FUCKING-ROLLEYES here, people.

[Guest The Mysterious One]

America's search for Weapons of Mass Destruction is Somewhat akin to the paronia caused by McCarthyism of the 1950's IMO.

[Guest Some Guy]

America's search for Weapons of Mass Destruction is Somewhat akin to the paronia caused by McCarthyism of the 1950's IMO.

Well I suppose in the sense that there are WMD in the hands of countries that might use them to say destroy Israel or kill AMerica and there were a lot of Commies in Hollywood in the 50s and there still are.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

I think what TMO means is that there is alot of Paranoia surronding which nations have or have not WMD.

 

And McCarthyism was horrible, it ruined the careers and lifes of thousands of people.

[Guest Some Guy]

I didn't say that McCarthyism was a good thing, I just said that there were a lot of Commies in Hollywood at the time and there still are, look at the current war protesters.

 

We haven't even officially won this war yet. maybe you should talk to yourself, I mean TMO and tell him that to be patient. We haev to do a lot of digging and searching in bunkers and stuff to find those and it's better to not have people shooting at you while you're doing so.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I'm not convinced we're going to attack Syria. The War with Iraq isn't done, and I think Syria will figure out it's in their best interest to cooperate with the U.S.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

I just kind of find it funny that this country was supposedly heralded(sp?) as some huge threat to our national security and we just wiped the floor with them in 20 days. What in the hell have they shown or we shown that shows they were any type of threat? Yah and since we haven't found any adequate amounts of WMD, I supposed Rumsfield will say that Syria is hiding them all in their country.

The military hasn't exactly had the time to LOOK for weapons, considering that they had a little war to fight.

 

Why was the Iraqi military so bad? Because Saddam funneled his energies towards WD rather than his decimated conventional military that we annihilated in 1991.

 

And let's not forget all of the doom-and-gloom we were hearing about what would happen when we entered Baghdad. Let's not pretend that everybody thought we'd just walk right through them.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Actually, evidence may be far easier to get since Syria is widely known for supporting terrorism for a long time now.

...I hate to be cliche, but it's like a modern day whichhunt.

 

The problem I foresee is terrorists and their supporters hating the US even more because of an attack on Syria. Not that they don't hate us already, but many countries are already pissed at us for Iraq. We need to at least repair the global relations that Iraq caused before we go and attack more terrorism supporters.

 

Going all Ronald Reagan on several different countries at the same time would work if it was for a good reason, but the threat of terrorism is a constantly shifting target that can never be eradicated through war, and we risk making a whole new generation of Osama Bin Ladens by rampaging throughout the Arab states with weapons of war, and doing almost nothing to convince the world that this is not a war on Islam.

You can call it a witchhunt if you wish --- should a 9/11 attack occur once again, you'll wish that we'd been a little more diligent.

 

We're fighting an EVIL group. Make no bones about it --- these people are not good. They kill innocents, usually for no reason. They would have NO problem killing us. We've tried being nice for years --- and it hasn't worked.

 

Perhaps putting some SERIOUS fear into them might work better. Diplomacy won't work.

 

And LET many countries be pissed at us. The Arabs will hate us regardless because we're not Muslim. W. Europe will hate us because France and Germany want power desperately. The superpower sort of has to do the right thing -- no matter if it IS unpopular.

 

"Going all Ronald Reagan" is EXACTLY what we need to do. That killed the Soviet Union. God knows appeasement and diplomacy have worked such wonders thus far.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Actually, it wasn't. It was about Vyce's comment about how "They'll always hate us. Always."

 

That was the stupidest comment since I heard someone say "They do not love their children. They are filled with hate for everything."

 

I mean, really. MEGA-FUCKING-ROLLEYES here, people.

Until we become Muslim and become a theocracy --- they WILL hate us.

-=Mike

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well I never thought the war with Iraq ITSELF would produce that much US casulties, but if we start attempting to sweep through nations, it may make them desperate enough to band together, increase the use of guerilla warfare and try more attempts of attacking the USA through the use of methods laid out on sept. 11th.

 

As far as Syria goes, the point I was trying to make was that the war in Iraq is not done, yet I hear Syria's name brought up more than Iraq over the past week every night, which makes me feel suspicious. Now suddenly Rumsfield is saying how they have ALWAYS been this or that, even though they were left out of the "axis of evil" It has already been eluded to by this administration that the reason we haven't found WMD is because Syria is hiding them, and all the Iraqi leaders are being held there. Oh and they sent some Night vision goggles into Iraq. For me, they better build a better argument before the bombs start dropping over Syria.

[Guest Vyce]

Actually, it wasn't. It was about Vyce's comment about how "They'll always hate us. Always."

 

That was the stupidest comment since I heard someone say "They do not love their children. They are filled with hate for everything."

 

I mean, really. MEGA-FUCKING-ROLLEYES here, people.

Hey, fuck you.

 

I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

 

*taps chest* From my ticker. I'd send you a Hallmark card, I would, saying the same thing, but I don't know your mailing address.

[Guest B-X]

NoCalMike brought up a great point. Systematically going through every Arab country that may or may not harbor terrorists/WOMD/wanted criminals/ will never solve anything.

 

Look at Israel. There, you have a Palestinian populace that is constantly living in fear of the Israeli government. I saw in the newspaper a couple of years back some figures which showed suicide bombings/car bombings increased DRAMATICALLY since Ariel Sharon became the Prime Minister. These Palestinian men are purposely killing themselves, despite all the efforts the Israeli Government as taken to crush the movement.

 

If you provoke a cornered dog, it will bite. Again, and again, and again. It will continue to bite until you kill it, or back away.

 

This same scenario WILL happen to us if we continue to fuck with the Muslim World. It's been proven time and time again that these guys don't fuck around. Right now, the Administration has just taken out Iraq. They obviously intend to install a democratic government there, or at least a government that is in their pocket.

 

We're seemingly eyeing Syria, as the comments made by top Administration officals would seem to indicate. What are the odds that we'll be marching into Damascus by years end? I'd be willing to say pretty God-damned high.

 

What is the likelyhood that the Arab world will be further inflamed and resentful... nay, enraged by these actions? Again, pretty God-damned high.

 

And who'll be next after Syria? Iran? Libya? Sudan? Does it matter? If we continue to go about the Arab world, knocking down governments and rebuilding them in our images (In the name of Homeland Security), surely they will be forced to strike back.

 

We are poking a very angry and very dangerous dog right now, and all you jackasses seem to think the wisest thing to do is go for the eyes. If you think terrorist acts against the US are awful right now, just you fucking wait and see what these guys are capable of if they feel their culture and their chances of being self-sufficent are snatched away from them. Right now, Christian organizations are ready to charge into Iraq, converting "heathen Muslims" to and fro. These thoughtless, incindiary acts will only make the US seem that much more villanous in the eyes of the average Muslim worshipper.

 

And you, you just want to "kill them all". You claim they are all "evil, heartless bastards" who "feel no emotion". You claim they must be stopped at all costs? To you, "all costs" is just a euphemism for "total annihilation".

 

But make no mistake, we cannot possibly "kill them all". Not in this day or age, where the birthrate in most Muslim countries is 3 to 5.7 percent, the highest rates in the world. And even if we did manage to eliminate virtually everyone who poses a threat to us, do you want our country to be responsible for (another) genocide? The Israelis are trying their damndest to do that with the Palestinians. It hasn't worked, and every month, there are more suicide bombings. It will never end in Israel, and rest assured, it will never end in the United States.

 

All you gotta do is poke that stick a little harder boys.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well you gotta wonder. If a muslim boy's family is slaughtered right before his eyes while he is in school, you'd think he becomes a MUCH EASIER target for muslim-extremists to take in and brainwash. I mean, how do you explain to a kid, "umm, your family was decimated in the name of liberation/homeland security" I know that is probably a worst-case scenario, but on a more serious note, what has the last 20 days of one-sided obliteration shown to help the argument that Iraq was a threat to our national security?