So good to see the Kliq is back

[Guest Johnson1620]

Nobody cares about Nash,HBK and HHHomo, the only pop they get is for their time entrance only. Vince is the biggest moron in the world for being such a mark for the Kliq.

Really, just becasue you guys don't like them doesn't mean you can make shit up. The crowd was with them all night. Even when Nash was in the ring giving a promo, he still was getting a positive reaction from the crowd. HHH and Nash even got a good pop when they were cutting their promo.

 

This is the best thing to happen in the WWE in a long time.

[Guest humongous2002]

Nobody cares about Nash,HBK and HHHomo, the only pop they get is for their time entrance only. Vince is the biggest moron in the world for being such a mark for the Kliq.

Really, just becasue you guys don't like them doesn't mean you can make shit up. The crowd was with them all night. Even when Nash was in the ring giving a promo, he still was getting a positive reaction from the crowd. HHH and Nash even got a good pop when they were cutting their promo.

 

This is the best thing to happen in the WWE in a long time.

Hey Vince McMahon , is this really you?

[Guest snuffbox]

Nobody cares about Nash,HBK and HHHomo, the only pop they get is for their time entrance only. Vince is the biggest moron in the world for being such a mark for the Kliq.

Really, just becasue you guys don't like them doesn't mean you can make shit up. The crowd was with them all night. Even when Nash was in the ring giving a promo, he still was getting a positive reaction from the crowd. HHH and Nash even got a good pop when they were cutting their promo.

 

This is the best thing to happen in the WWE in a long time.

I thought you were gone

 

This is the best thing...if Nash can even draw half what he did in 95 and in WCW(still a prosperous company right?) then the WWE will be huge again!

[Guest Johnson1620]

Nobody cares about Nash,HBK and HHHomo, the only pop they get is for their time entrance only. Vince is the biggest moron in the world for being such a mark for the Kliq.

Really, just becasue you guys don't like them doesn't mean you can make shit up. The crowd was with them all night. Even when Nash was in the ring giving a promo, he still was getting a positive reaction from the crowd. HHH and Nash even got a good pop when they were cutting their promo.

 

This is the best thing to happen in the WWE in a long time.

I thought you were gone

 

This is the best thing...if Nash can even draw half what he did in 95 and in WCW(still a prosperous company right?) then the WWE will be huge again!

You guys are welcome to your opinion and all, but the crowd reaction was great last night and that is a good thing.

 

Who cares about what Nash did in 95 an wCw. Let's wait and see what he does now. That's what's really important.

[Guest bob_barron]

Crowd reactions don't mean shit. Undertaker gets huge pops but he isn't a draw at all.

 

Kevin Nash has never been a draw before and he won't be one now

[Guest Choken One]

People will Pop for anything...Be it Kevin Nash, A Hometown Mention, A Squaking bird flying around the ring or whatever. Pops Mean Shit.

 

Pops=Drunk People cheering for Noise.

[Guest Johnson1620]

Crowd reactions don't mean shit. Undertaker gets huge pops but he isn't a draw at all.

 

Kevin Nash has never been a draw before and he won't be one now

Did I once say that Nash was a draw? I don't think I did. Draw or not, people like him. Does that mean the writers will write good storylines so he can become a big draw? No. People like Nash, people like the fact he's back. Only time will tell if the writers can finally give us a storyline worth wacthing.

[Guest bob_barron]

That's great that people like him. But if he doesn't make any $ then he's good for nothing. And people don't even like him that much- his pop wasn't really that big last night

[Guest Choken One]

With Hogan, I heard TONS of people talking about...

 

With Steiner, I heard a Few people talking about....

 

With Goldberg, I heard a lot of people talk about

 

With Nash, Not a Peep.

 

I'm talking general people...Not Smarks...

[Guest Johnson1620]

With Hogan, I heard TONS of people talking about...

 

With Steiner, I heard a Few people talking about....

 

With Goldberg, I heard a lot of people talk about

 

With Nash, Not a Peep.

 

I'm talking general people...Not Smarks...

What people are you talking about? I have had countless conversations with people about Nash's return. From the everyday joe I've talked to it seems people are interested in Nash and his return.

 

Where do you live Choken?

 

That's great that people like him. But if he doesn't make any $ then he's good for nothing. And people don't even like him that much- his pop wasn't really that big last night

 

Now bob, who that the WWE has gotten since the buyout has seriously made money? Hogan, and that's about it. The money won't be there until interesting storylines are there.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Let me clarify my earlier statement. Nash HIMSELF got pops during his entrance and throughout the night, however whenever it involved the other two clowns in the ring with him, the whole, "come on we used to be buddies" the crowd didn't react to that at all, like they had no idea what he was talking about. Nash will bomb like the rest.

[Guest Coffey]

As a wrestling fan, I would just like the point out that drawing power means dick to me. Raven is one of my favorite wrestlers of all-time, and he sure as fuck didn't make WWE any money. Same with Sean Morley & Christian whom I also "mark" for. If I only cared about how much of a draw wrestlers were, I'd never have anyone to cheer for. Yay! Stone Cold Vs. Hogan! Best. Match. Ever.

 

No plz.

 

So, when anyone ever uses that against someone...when you're not a WWE employee, but just a damn fan, it kindof falls on deaf ears around my neighborhood.

[Guest Johnson1620]

As a wrestling fan, I would just like the point out that drawing power means dick to me. Raven is one of my favorite wrestlers of all-time, and he sure as fuck didn't make WWE any money. Same with Sean Morley & Christian whom I also "mark" for. If I only cared about how much of a draw wrestlers were, I'd never have anyone to cheer for. Yay! Stone Cold Vs. Hogan! Best. Match. Ever.

 

No plz.

 

So, when anyone ever uses that against someone...when you're not a WWE employee, but just a damn fan, it kindof falls on deaf ears around my neighborhood.

You are 100% right, but these people on this board don't seem to care about that.

 

I know tons of people who are just wishing that HHH, HBK, and Nash get back together and turn on Booker T at Backlash. Now I know it won't happen, but people want to see that. Maybe not the majority, but people want to see it all the same.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Raven carried and drew great in ECW when he was THE GUY. In WWE he was never given anything but a "hardcore champ" type push and the crowd seemed to enjoy those matches when he was involved. You Can't honestly say he had any type of chance in WWE. In WCW he was MAD over as a heel, and even had a cult-fan following that liked him. He had some great matches paired with Saturn during that whole tag team feud. He got DDP pushed over the top and helped get Benoit more over as well. So it seemed in ECW and WCW where he was actually used as a tool to make money, it worked.

[Guest NoCalMike]

I know tons of people who are just wishing that HHH, HBK, and Nash get back together and turn on Booker T at Backlash. Now I know it won't happen, but people want to see that. Maybe not the majority, but people want to see it all the same.

whoever wants to see that must have ZERO concern for logic and continuity in wrestling. It would make ZERO sense. Now, Nash turning heel, instead of going with HBK would be fine, but if HBK turned heel it would be the biggest logic gap since RVD being left off the WM card.

[Guest Johnson1620]

I know tons of people who are just wishing that HHH, HBK, and Nash get back together and turn on Booker T at Backlash.  Now I know it won't happen, but people want to see that.  Maybe not the majority, but people want to see it all the same.

whoever wants to see that must have ZERO concern for logic and continuity in wrestling. It would make ZERO sense. Now, Nash turning heel, instead of going with HBK would be fine, but if HBK turned heel it would be the biggest logic gap since RVD being left off the WM card.

Well since when has the WWE cared about "logic and continuity"? Not in a long time. That is the problem with the product now. As far as the Clique thing goes I was just using that as am example of what people want to see in contrast to "money drawers".

[Guest Coffey]

Raven carried and drew great in ECW when he was THE GUY. In WWE he was never given anything but a "hardcore champ" type push and the crowd seemed to enjoy those matches when he was involved. You Can't honestly say he had any type of chance in WWE. In WCW he was MAD over as a heel, and even had a cult-fan following that liked him. He had some great matches paired with Saturn during that whole tag team feud. He got DDP pushed over the top and helped get Benoit more over as well. So it seemed in ECW and WCW where he was actually used as a tool to make money, it worked.

As big an ECW "mark" as I was, even I can admit that there was no such thing as a "draw" in ECW. Yeah, he was big in ECW & WCW...and now in NWA. However, he's never really making anyone money. People pay to see main eventers...not midcarders or "WWE has-beens." That's just the way that "marks" look at it. Not enough people got to see ECW for Raven to make a true impact. Not enough people get to see NWA today. A lot of people saw him in WCW, and he was definitely over...however, the nWo was more over. At least to the "marks." Least not forget Sting, DDP and all the other old guys at the top.

[Guest Downhome]

Jago, Johnson, I thought I was the only one allowed to speak as you guys are talking. I found it entertaining, simply because I've always wanted to see it. I like all three of them, so I'm enjoying it. I will say this...

 

...I wish they would just allow this to be a "Kliq feud" instead of having the World Championship involved. There really is need for it to be involved in the first place, as it isn't the point of the feud. It would be much smarter booking to have them just have their thing, but have Booker T/Jericho or something like that. Of course with Goldberg more than likely getting the title, HHH needs to hold on to it, so eh, I dunno.

 

For the record, the biggest pops of the night have been reported from people there live as being Goldberg, Nash, HBK, and Hurricane, heh. As for heel heat, Jericho, HHH, and The French guys. I know it doesn't mean anything in terms of drawing, but still.

[Guest Coffey]

I agree, and simply put, Booker T. should've just went over at Mania to get the title. Then the Cliq shit wouldn't have the title in the picture. It's not like that belt means a whole helluva lot anyway, but it's the principle.

[Guest NoCalMike]

[

As big an ECW "mark" as I was, even I can admit that there was no such thing as a "draw" in ECW. Yeah, he was big in ECW & WCW...and now in NWA. However, he's never really making anyone money. People pay to see main eventers...not midcarders or "WWE has-beens." That's just the way that "marks" look at it. Not enough people got to see ECW for Raven to make a true impact. Not enough people get to see NWA today. A lot of people saw him in WCW, and he was definitely over...however, the nWo was more over. At least to the "marks." Least not forget Sting, DDP and all the other old guys at the top.

I never said Raven was the TOP DRAW of WCW. Of course the nWo at it's height was more over than Raven. However Raven was over because his character was money, bottomline. He had a good character and could work a good match/brawl, that is what people liked to see. A lot of wrestlers are over.......until the match starts and then are just as boring and stale as Roadblock, until they hit their finisher and someone is declared the winner. In retrospect I agree that there wasn't really a "draw" in ECW, however Raven was THE MAN in ECW, but you could see the difference in how he would make all his opponents look good whether they were main eventers like Sandman/Dreamer or a mid-carder like Mikey Whipwreck. Also when Raven left ECW, the crowd reacted different than they usually did, of course there was a small amount of "you sold out" chants, but the vast majority knew exactly what they were losing in Raven. They were losing basically who their "franchise" player was up to that time. And it showed as ECW was never quite the same company after he left.

[Bored 0]

Oh people he's a Laker fan so why bother...just a front runner!

[Guest Coffey]

I never said Raven was the TOP DRAW of WCW.

I never said you did. You said that he was a top draw in ECW, which for ECW standards, maybe he was...but for real life standards, he didn't make shit.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

As far as the Clique thing goes I was just using that as am example of what people want to see in contrast to "money drawers".

But "whom people want to see" and "money draws" go hand-in-hand.

 

If people want to see somebody, they'll pay to go see them. If somebody doesn't draw, then people obviously don't want to see them that badly.

 

Granted, in today's WWE, hardly anybody is what you would consider a "draw" (outside of Rock), but Nash never drew in the past outside of the nWo, and you could argue it was the gimmick that drew, not Nash (although he helped). And HBK is one of the lower drawing champs in WWF/E history. So what makes you think the Nash & HBK & HHH storyline is going to draw now, especially HBK's and Nash's best days are well behind them?

[Guest NoCalMike]

...I wish they would just allow this to be a "Kliq feud" instead of having the World Championship involved. There really is need for it to be involved in the first place, as it isn't the point of the feud. It would be much smarter booking to have them just have their thing, but have Booker T/Jericho or something like that. Of course with Goldberg more than likely getting the title, HHH needs to hold on to it, so eh, I dunno.

I agree actually that the Clique feud would be better without the title in the scenario. I mean, my biggest problem with the way it is being laid out, is that it is taking precedence over the fact that Triple H is the champ and should be defending it every week(or every other week) to a variety of opponents. Now the actual WORLD TITLE CHAMPIONSHIP is taking a back seat to the historic "friendship gone bad" angle. I mean I know it has been said a lot before me, but seriously, what in the hell happened to wanting to wrestle the champ because YOU WANT TO BE CHAMP? If Triple H dropped the strap and then continued this clique business than it wouldn't be as hard to watch, but the Title is just kind of sitting in limbo between these 3 guys until this crap is over with.

[Guest Coffey]

But "whom people want to see" and "money draws" go hand-in-hand.

 

If people want to see somebody, they'll pay to go see them. If somebody doesn't draw, then people obviously don't want to see them that badly.

They only go hand in hand if you generalize the wrestling population as a whole like you just did. I would spend money to watch American Dragon & Christopher Daniels. That doesn't mean that "marks" would, so that pretty much throws your hypothesis out the window.

 

Inexposure.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Also one of the biggest myths in the business among fans is that pops automatically equal money. yes in some cases(Austin/Rock) they are popping because that is who the paid to see, but when I went to RAW people were cheering and booing everybody mainly for the fact that WWE only comes to our city approx once a year as far as LIVE EVENTS go and it is your ONE chance to see everyone on the show.

[Guest Coffey]

Also one of the biggest myths in the business among fans is that pops automatically equal money. yes in some cases(Austin/Rock) they are popping because that is who the paid to see, but when I went to RAW people were cheering and booing everybody mainly for the fact that WWE only comes to our city approx once a year as far as LIVE EVENTS go and it is your ONE chance to see everyone on the show.

Or in the rare occasion that they come to Terre Haute, the crowd pops for everything in hopes that it will get the WWE to return sooner than the ten year intervals that they have come acustomed to with this rat hole of a city.

[Guest Downhome]

The crowd also pops for the Sink Face...ugh.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

But "whom people want to see" and "money draws" go hand-in-hand.

 

If people want to see somebody, they'll pay to go see them.  If somebody doesn't draw, then people obviously don't want to see them that badly.

They only go hand in hand if you generalize the wrestling population as a whole like you just did. I would spend money to watch American Dragon & Christopher Daniels. That doesn't mean that "marks" would, so that pretty much throws your hypothesis out the window.

 

Inexposure.

But you can't use that argument in this case. We're talking the WWE and Nash and HBK and HHH. Inexposure is not an excuse.

[Guest Johnson1620]

Oh people he's a Laker fan so why bother...just a front runner!

Last time I checked this wasn't the correct forum to attack my taste in basketball teams. But just for your information I'll tell you that I have been a Lakers fan for about 20 years. My guess is that is probably longer then you've been alive. So next time you want to attack me do it in the proper forum and have your facts straight first, moron.