Why wwf's cruiserweight division attempt will fail

[Guest]

The only guys who will get pushed in this are Scotty 2 Hotty, Crash Holly, and Spike Dudley. WWF won't get any real cruiserweights from Mexico or Japan who actually wrestle a cruiserweight style and are exciting to watch like WCW did. Then Vince can brag how he tried to start one again and it failed. He recently fired Essa Rios and Jerry Lynn which proves he isn't serious about the division. He needs to hire those two guys back as well as Christopher Daniels, Juventud Guerrera, Psychosis, and Super Crazy. If they hired these guys, brought up Shannon Moore and Jamie Knoble, and pushed guys like Kidman, Tajiri, Funaki, and Taka Michinoku when he gets better then this division would be off to a great start. Of course this probably won't happen with Vince in charge of it.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I'm worried about this, but as long as they keep Dean Malenko as the main booker for the division it should work out ok. Also, i think Raven should have creative scope in the hardcore div, i think they can get qute a bit more mileage out of it with him involved.

[Guest converge241]

but as long as they keep Dean Malenko as the main booker

 

yes i agree, especially if they give him some power and freedom.

 

Ravens a good choice too.  think he could be a great HC booker.

 

I still approach the division with great tepedation , but if our expectations are low, maybe we will b pleasantley surprised.

fingers crossed.

[Guest converge241]

Just wanted to add something.

We would see a huge push to cruiserweights if one of the start ups ever became succesful pushing them , because Vince would then finally realize and go full steam aping of the style.

[Guest Brian]

The problem is, Vince's ideal cruiserweight aren't Mysterio, Juventud or Tajiri; they're Scotty, GMS, and X-Pac.

[Guest WWF4Life]

I always thought it was counter productive to have an entirely separate cruiserweight division. I'm an advocate of that type of wrestling, but it limits any potential to elevate those in the division. Fans just see them as cruiserweights, impeding any possible elevation up the card. That was a problem in the old WCW, as no one was really taken seriously when pushed as a heavyweight. Remember Dean Malenko's ill fated push against Hennig? Sometimes it does more harm than good, and Vince would want the most possible return from his investment.

[Guest Brian]

The best thing to do is once and a while put a tag team of cruiserweights or two in the tag division, which gives people some semblance of an idea that they can compete at the heavyweight level.

[Guest converge241]

I always thought it was counter productive to have an entirely separate cruiserweight division.

 

hmmm, interesting point. I guess it would be more prodcutive to stress that a smaller guy can out wrestle a big guy, but they never do that. the most they do is say "he's too quick" or play up the david and goliath imagery (with david almost always losing).

[Guest Tony149]

I always thought it was counter productive to have an entirely separate cruiserweight division. I'm an advocate of that type of wrestling, but it limits any potential to elevate those in the division. Fans just see them as cruiserweights, impeding any possible elevation up the card. That was a problem in the old WCW, as no one was really taken seriously when pushed as a heavyweight. Remember Dean Malenko's ill fated push against Hennig? Sometimes it does more harm than good, and Vince would want the most possible return from his investment.

That can be solved easy. Bring back the TV Title. You could mix the cruiserweights with the heavyweights that can wrestle with them.

[Guest WWF4Life]

I always thought it was counter productive to have an entirely separate cruiserweight division. I'm an advocate of that type of wrestling, but it limits any potential to elevate those in the division. Fans just see them as cruiserweights, impeding any possible elevation up the card. That was a problem in the old WCW, as no one was really taken seriously when pushed as a heavyweight. Remember Dean Malenko's ill fated push against Hennig? Sometimes it does more harm than good, and Vince would want the most possible return from his investment.

That can be solved easy. Bring back the TV Title. You could mix the cruiserweights with the heavyweights that can wrestle with them.

There's no point in bringing in a TV title really. The only point of the TV title in the first place was when Feds were regional, and the World title was hardly defended on TV. Every title is defended on TV now regularly, so there's no point. Just use the European title for that, we don't need another title.

 

Intercontinental - High mid carders waiting for a main event push.

 

European - Lower mid-carders (inc. cruiserweights). Test to see if they're capable of a higher place on the card.

[Guest Tony149]

The European Title is all but dead, IMO. A TV Title would be better, but thats just my opinion. I see what you're saying.

[Guest Marvel Man X]

I feel like a lot of WCW Crusierweights got to shine and go up the ranks with guys such as Rey Mysterio Jr, Ultimo Dragon, Chris Benoit, Eddy G, and Dean Malenko who all held belts above the crusierweight belts and Rey Mysterio Jr and Chris Benoit both had World Title Shots before. Guys like "Prime Time" Elix Skipper and newer power plant wrestlers could wrestler both the cruiserweight style and the heavyweight style and still not be labled. It's all about how seriously you push the crusierweight division. You need the best of the best to make it seem serious, you had Mike Tenay talking about Lucha Libre and Puro and the background to it, you had guys like Ultimo Dragon wearing like 9 belts at once making you think you this guy must be really good. In Japan guys like Jyushin "Thunder" Lyger are better known for what they did in the Jr weight division then what they did when they try to wrestle in the Heavy Weight division, because that's what they do best and the fed takes the division seriously, so the fans do.

[Guest OSIcon]

but as long as they keep Dean Malenko as the main booker for the division it should work out ok.

 

Since when has Dean been booking the Lightweight/cruiserweight division?  I am fairly sure that he was never the booker for the division and I am even more confident that they wouldn't put him in charge of the division now.  The WWF doesn't operate on a booking system where there are bookers in charge of certain divisions.  It's just a bunch of writers and Vince that handle basically everything in the federation.  I don't know where you got the idea that Dean was/is booking the cruiserweights.

 

I always thought it was counter productive to have an entirely separate cruiserweight division. I'm an advocate of that type of wrestling, but it limits any potential to elevate those in the division. Fans just see them as cruiserweights, impeding any possible elevation up the card. That was a problem in the old WCW, as no one was really taken seriously when pushed as a heavyweight. Remember Dean Malenko's ill fated push against Hennig? Sometimes it does more harm than good, and Vince would want the most possible return from his investment.

 

I have always disagreed with this argument that a cruiserweight division is counter productive.  Russo said that same exact thing when he came to WCW.  I disagreed with it then and I disagree with it now.  It's all in how the division is pushed.  In boxing, champions of lighter weight divisions aren't seen as any less of a competitor then the Heavyweight champion.  Both are champions of the perspective divisions and both division are equally as important.  The Heavyweight division is often the more publicized one because people generally tend to want to see the bigger guys who throw harder punches box.  But I know a number of people who like watching the lighter weight championship matches in boxing because they prefer that style better.  In boxing, the weight divisions are all equally as important and each offer a different style that different people want to see,  It can be the same in wrestling.

 

A cruiserweight division just has to be marketed as a separate division with wrestlers that are equally as talented as their heavyweight counterparts, just 100 pounds lighter.  If done right, there is no reason that a cruiserweight match can't be the second to last match on a ppv card, or even be a legt TV main event.  Its not hard to do.  The cruiserweights just need to stick to their division and not be paired with heavys.  When they are, the bookers have a tendency to pull the "reality card" and have the smaller guys job because they say that in real life a small guy can't beat a big guy.  If you keep the CW separate from the heavyweights, that problem is eliminated.  Nobody expects a lightweight boxing champion to beat a heavyweight who is 100 punds bigger then him, thus they never compete.  It should be the same in wrestling.

 

The second important thing is to give the CW division stroylines that rival thus of the heavyweight division.  If you give people a reason to be interested in their feuds, they will watch.  WCW was doing this towards the end and I guarentee that if WCW stayed alive for a few more months, the CW division would have been seen on the same level as the Heavyweight division.  Of course, I doubt the WWF would ever do this, but contrary to waht most people think, it can be done.

 

It's not counter productive to have a CW division.  The problem lies in the fact that the majority of people have this idea that you need to compete in the heavyweight division in order to be a big star.  WCW showed to some extent that wasn't true with guys like Misterio who was as big of a star as anyone there.  If CW are kept separate from the heavyweights and the CW title is pushed as a WORLD title for a different weight class, then a division can easily work and there would be no need for cruiserweights to have to move to the heavyweight division.

 

The WWF CW has about a 0% chance of suceeding though as long as Ross keeps talking about how Spike and Crash are going to be a big part of the division.  Those two are just smaller guys who wrestle a heavyweight style.  The division needs to have a separate style, the high flying/junior style that has worked in New japan and WCW.  With guys like Spike and Crash, it will just seem like smaller guys wrestling, rather then a completely different style like it should be.

[Guest Sykotic2002]

I really hope that they wouldn't consider bringing in Juvy and Psicosis.  Those two just don't have it anymore in my opinion.  I haven't seen them in any good matches since they were canned from WCW.  There are some spots in Psicosis' matches that I hate.  Say he has someone in he corner, he'll go for a knee the guy will move and he lift himself over the turnbuckle with his knee and fall to the floor.  HE just don't have it anymore.  Same for Juvy.  I'd like to see them bring in Rey Mysterio Jr., Eddy Guerrero, Jerry Lynn, Super Crazy, Christopher Daniels, a returning Dean Malenko to mix in with Tajiri, Hurricane, Kidman, Shannon Moore, Jamie Knoble, and E.Z. Money.  I say keep Spike and Crash in the Hardcore Division because their style just doesn't seem that good to mix with those other guys.  X-Pac will probably be on the opposite roster, so I don't see him in the division.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

All I ever hear is about whether or not the cruiserweight division will "succeed" but no one ever bothers to say what that means. If I'm Vince, I would consider it to be "succeeding" if it maintain interest of fans (i.e. ratings stay stable during CW matches) and if the wrestlers sold some merchandise and entertained the crowd. That isn't exactly an unreachable goal.

[Guest teke184]

The problem is that Vince considers the Cruiserweight division to be a success if it gets a low-level white talent over enough to move up on the card <COUGHBrianChristopherCOUGH>.

 

That's unrealistic considering that most of the lightweights that fit that mold ABSOLUTELY SUCK (Spike is a bump machine and not much else, Crash is nearly useless, the now-fired Grandmaster Sexay helped kill the Cruiser division out of the gate in 1997, etc) except for Scotty II Hotty, who had a GREAT match with Malenko at Backlash 2000.

[Guest The Fett]

According to Wrestling Observer the Cruiserweight division will be on Smackdown on Vince's side of the company. Wouldn't it have made more sense to put them on Flair's show since that is the one that's supposed to be more wrestling oriented? I thought the Cruiserweights had a chance at success on Flair's side of the company but now that it will be on Vince's side I'm not so sure anymore.

[Guest muzanisa]

Smaller guys wrestling in the WWf style (Crash, Spike) will not get over.

If booked differently with different types (low Ki, Daniels, Fleisch) then it has a chance.

[Guest]

For the Cruiserweight Division, i think you gotta mix both sides. Yes, the division just can't be a way to push lighter heavyweights, but the fed has to make sure to give the cruiseres some personalitys. That was the one problem, i beleive, in the division in WCW. Most of the lucahdores had no personality, at all. If they want the division to succeed, bring in the money, then they have to put some effort into it. Make the CW belt as important as the World and Tag titles, make it speical.

 

 

Oh and everyone knows that the welterweight and featherweight boxers are the best in the world. Thats what i call sweet science.

[Guest Ace309]

Based on the assumption that "The fans will eat whatever Vince tells them to eat,"....

 

Have the Cruiserweight belt defended somewhere besides in the curtain jerker.

 

Push it physically up the card, not in the sense of building it up but actually making it the last match. Build it throughout the show, have someone actually FEUD over it...

 

Christian and DDP aren't feuding over the European title, they're feuding over a falling-out. Hence, no one cares about the European title.

 

At least, that's my answer.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

If WCW had continued, it would have been interesting to see how the CW tag titles progressed, and if they helped the cruisers get over.

 

As it is, I think if pushed correctly, the CW title could reach maybe IC levels of importance. There are guys who are good on the mic out there, and masses of talent just waiting to be picked up.

[Guest BA_Baracus]

It won't work because they won't push them.

 

Although, I don't see what's wrong with pushing Spike, Crash and Scotty.

 

They're all good wrestlers.  Most of them have been grounded, but they'll probably get to show off more of their high-flying stuff in the cruiser division.

 

Just as long as they don't give the belt to X-pac...

[Guest teke184]

BA, GIVE the belt to X-Pac?  They still need to get the Light-Heavyweight belt BACK from that little bastard.  

 

Unfortunately, since he's joined the nWo, the WWF will convienently forget the belt exists until they feel like bringing it back and passing it off to a new signee.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Scotty is ok. He had good matches with Malenko.

 

I hate X-Pac. *sighs*

[Guest Human Fly]

Hey, I'll be happy if the Champ just defends the belt more often then once a month. What's the point of having Tajiri as the champ when nothing happens with him except jobbing to big guys every week. Also, why has the big cruiser division push being held off till the split? With Tajiri, Hurricane, Spike, Crash Holly, Jeff Hardy, Christian, Funaki, Scotty 2 Hotty, and maybe Maven and Matt Hardy it could be really good. With Billy Kidman, Chavo Jr., the cruisers in HWA, Taka, maybe Justin Credibile (maybe too big for cruiser division), Eddie G., and Rey Misterio it could be really special. Let's hope they don't mess it up.

[Guest BA_Baracus]

The LHW belt is dead.

 

They're using the Cruiser belt now, which Tajiri holds.

 

Spike, Crash, Tajiri, Scotty, Hurricane, Chavo, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Geurrero, Funaki, Taka.

 

Not a bad division...

[Guest Cataclysm911]

The division will fail simply because X-pac will be the champion and the number one contender will be Scotty 2 Hotty.

 

Not entertaining.

 

They need to bring in all of the masked superstars if they are serious about the division. Then you have people like: Rey Jr, Billy Kidman, Jerry Lynn, TAKA, Juventud Guerrero, Taijiri, Little Guido, Mikey Whipwreck, Shane Helms, etc. mix it up with them.

 

Imagine if the WWF could sign talents like Liger or Sasuke.

[Guest Shawn]

I'd die and roll over in my grave.

 

I hope they don't get Lyger or Sasuke because just look at TAKA. He has more tallent (I.E. Spaceman Quebrada) in his middle finger than most of the other "Top WWF Superstars" in the WWF... yet he is jobbed and booked on Jakked.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

yeah, its sad that TAKA has gradually been relegated to the very bottom the WWF ladder. He could still be a viable CW champ if there is a new division though.

[Guest Shawn]

What I hate the most is that Taker gets (got) cheered more by the fans for taking a dive over the top rope one a month (back when he did it) than TAKA gets for hitting a Spaceman Quebrada every night.

 

I hate that because that's not the writer's fault, (well, they could have put the #### move over more than saying, "Ohh!") it's the fans' fault for not cheering their #### asses off.