Good vs Bad: Clash of the Champions 23

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Everyone's pretty much asked for this show so i'm doing it.

 

Clash of the Champions 23

June 15th, 1993

 

Hosted by Jesse Ventura & Tony Schiavone

 

Background: 1993 was a terrible year for WCW. They blew two huge signings(British Bulldog,Sid), they gave away four months worth of storylines(Disney tapings) and made nearly no money at all. They kept going downhill until as usual Ric flair saved them at Starcade. Aside from that they had pretty good matches since some of the best workers ever were there during 1993(Flair,Steamboat,Austin,Sting,Pillman,Anderson). So halfway through the year WCW puts on another Clash with only one selling point: the return of Ric Flair.

 

Ron Simmons vs "Dirty" Dick Slater

 

Background: It's supposed to be a TV title match for Paul Orndorff's belt but Paul is injured.

 

The Good: Hmmmmm....Orndorff's at ringside and I like Orndorff.

 

The Bad: Dull. Slow. NOT quick. It actually goes on for a bit of time. Nothing but punches and shoulder blocks from Simmons. Did nothing for nobody. Even Jesse on commentary seems bored.

 

Overall: DUD would go into negatives but I can't give something involving Orndorff negative stars.

 

Marcus Alexander Bagwell vs Lord Steven Regal

 

Background: Here's something for Barron...this is Regal's WCW debut according to Tony. Bagwell is a JTTS at this point so he's not worth anything.

 

The Good: Regal's WCW music is the most kick ass theme I've heard all week. Why the WWE doesn't use it is beyond me. Regal uses some nice technical stuff to start. Jesse describes Rugby as "Football without pads" totally making my day. A good way to introduce Regal to the fans.

 

The Bad: Well here's the thing with Regal, he's a very hit and miss wrestler. If he's against the right guy he could put on classics (Zsbysco,Steamboat), but against other guys he sucked(Dustin Rhodes,Johnny B. Badd). Bagwell is in the latter category as these guys didn't really click. And above that it's pretty boring and underwhleming to watch for a debut match.

 

Overall: * nothing terrible but nothing good either.

 

NWA Title: Barry Windham vs Too Cold Scorpio

 

Background: Scorpio awed WCW with his high-flying while Windham bored them with his headlocks. Windham's a tweener at this point...but not for long. NWA title is worthless at this point btw.

 

The Good: Scorpio awed the crowd and won them over half way through. Windham brought his C game(better than the F game he usually brought at that point). At a few points it seemed that Scorpio actually had a hope in hell. Tony did a good job puttign over Scorpio's victories in Japan.

 

The Bad: Scorpio botched quite a few spots. The crowd was dead early on. This is in Norfolk(NWA country) and as with any NWA crowd they could be EXTREMELY loud(for anything flair, Sting or Horsemen related) or DEAD quiet(everythign else). Here's they're mildly mixed near the end. Windham hits god knows what to end the match. It was called a jumping DDT but it did not come out looking very well. Scorpio disappeared more or less as this did nothing for him.

 

Overall: **1/2 better than I expected.

 

Sting, British Bulldog & Dustin Rhodes vs Rick Rude, Vader & Sid

 

Background: 1. Sting & Vader are in step 2312312 of their never ending feud and Vader is champ at this point(although it is extremely hard to keep track). 2. Bulldog and Sid are both newcomers helping their 'friends'(ie. other heels or faces). 3. Rude & Dustin are in the midst of an extremely long and complicated feud for the US title.

 

The Good: No resting. Consdering you have Dustin in there this is a plus. Whenever Sting is in the ring the match gets about 10 times more exciting. Rude's selling. Some nice double-team spots by Sid & Vader. A wicked sequence where Sting presses Rude and tosses him...right into the arms of Vader and Sid. And those two proceed to toss Rude back at Sting like a lawn dart. Put the heels over strong for Beach Blast.

 

The Bad: Whenever Dustin gets in the ring the match slows down. Bulldog did nothing(he was literally in the ring for aorund 1 minute). Weird ending as the fake hot tag is made and the ref holds Sting back but Bulldog runs and attacks. Bleh ending.

 

Overall: **3/4 Fun match to watch.

 

Hollywood Blondes vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson

 

Background: In 1991 Ric Flair jumped to the WWF. As WCW went on a young lad named Steve Austin began dominating and was being compared to a young Ric Flair. In early 1993 Austin was left with ntohing to do. WCW braintrust decided to tema him with Pillman and let them run wild by doing all their own stuff. They got over fast and the Hollywood Blondes were(within weeks) the hottest heel tag team in years. In the mean time Flair made his triumphant return and(despite him not wanting too) reformed the Horsemen with Arn Anderson and Paul Roma. Since Flair couldn't wrestle for a few months because of his contract WCW gave him a talk show called "A Flair For the Gold" to pass the time. The Blondes decided to mimick this and did their own "A Flare For the Old" to parody Flair and Anderson. This meant war. Flair & AA requested a 2/3 falls match to teach the young punks how they use to do it in the old days and thus it was signed. Add to the fact that this was Ric Flair's return to a WCW ring for the first time in 2 years and this match became the only reason watch this show.

 

The Good: Look who's in it? But what really makes this memorable is the mind games and psychology. This match symbolizes(as pointed out by Jesse & Tony) Flair and Anderson agaisnt a younger version of themselves. It is Flair & AA trying to prove to themselves that they still got it. This is played up beautifully during the match. Little things to build up the match are exhibited perfectly. Things like Flair grabbing Austin by the mouth like a teacher would grab a student who's mouth got him in trouble. Like Austin pushing down on Pillman's head during a Boston crab for leverage. Like austin & Pillman's hilarious mocking of Flair & AA early on. Flair's facial expressions, especially early on. The HOT~! crowd. Remember what I said about the crowd being either dead or extremely loud. Here they're loud. When Arn & Pillman start they immediately chant "We Want Flair"(they did all night pretty much). The first 10 minutes are incredibly hot and fast paced proving to WCW that Ric Flair does still have it. Arn selling a leg injury perfectly. Flair doing a top rope double axe-handle and NOT getting thrown off. No resting whatsoever. Every move had meaning in context of the match. Just wonderful...except for one thing.

 

The Bad: THE FUCKING ENDING!! Sorry but watching this match you'll be just pissed off as I was by the terrible, upon terrible, ending. This match was building to a ***** 3 fall match but they had to cut it short. They had to have Windham run out and turn heel, morons. Atleast they could have made it 1-1 and then have Windham interfere on the thrid fall but no he comes in on the second fall. Aside from that, the Blondes look weak losing 2 falls in a row. Paul Roma being mentioned a Horseman is always a downer. Nothing else was at all bad.

 

Overall: I REALLY want to rate this match higher than ****1/4 but I cannot. The ending alone knocks off 3/4 of a *. Given all three falls being clean this would've been ***** no doubt in my mind.

 

Overall: Forgettable show except for the last match. But the rest of it is worth sitting through to get to Blondes/Horsemen. Even better get Blondes/Horsemen on a comp. Recommended for the main event.

 

All feedback is, as always, appreciated.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

I just got this show off ebay and needed an unbias opinion, and DAMN the main event sounds good.

[Guest Tony149]

No wonder why I thought JR was still with WCW at this point...I confused COTC 23 with 22.

 

This may be the first review where the Windham/2 Cold match wasn't praised. Believe it not, Windham's "jumping" DDT came off right, he started using that verison over the normal DDT and the throw your legs in the air one (UT uses this).

 

Funny thing about the main event: After Flair/Anderson win the first fall, and when WCW is heading towards a commerical, Michael Buffer actually proclaims Flair/Arn the new tag team champions. I think this was the start of Buffer's WCW career as well.

 

And another thing about the main event: WCW really fucked up by not playing Flair's theme. The crowd had no idea whose music that was until Flair/Arn appeared on the ramp.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Windham/2 Cold was impressive consdering how lazy Windham was at that point but I've seen MUCH better form Scorpio.

 

The crowd surprisingly wasn't into Arn Anderson that much and cared about no one but Flair. But yaht hat entrance thing is true since they played Arn's music and the crowd didn't care.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

WIndham/Scorpio shows all you need to know about your ability to understand wrestling.

 

Moron.

 

Tim

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Could you elaborate rather than just saying moron?

 

What did you find so great about that match?

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Other than being the best Youngster v Veteran US match that I have seen, having a ton of heat, having an excellent moveset from both participants for 1993, and being a Top 20 WCW Match of the 1990's, I guess the match really does suck.

 

Tim

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Top 20 WCW match of the 90's? What are you smoking?

 

The heat is NOT that great as the crowd was silent early since Windham wasn't a face or heel at that point. The moveset for Scorpio is the same as in all his matches(vs Benoit at Superbrawl is a better match) and I acknowledged that Windham was motivated. But this was nothing more than Scorpio's spots(some of which were blown) and Windham trying to counter them. Plus for am atch to be truly legendary it has to relevant but this isn't relevant in the least. Scorpio disappeared till teaming with Bagwell and Windham became Flair's bitch.

 

I could name 20 matches in 1993(only from the US) ALONE better than Scorpio/Windham. And just to confirm my opinion I'll rewatch the match tomorrow.

 

And I never said it sucked so don't put words in my motuh.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Top 20 WCW match of the 90's? What are you smoking?"

 

For storyline and evecution, definetly top 20.

 

"The heat is NOT that great as the crowd was silent early since Windham wasn't a face or heel at that point."

 

The heat was fine. The crowd was cheering for Windham but they also cheered hard as Scorpio made his comeback spots.

 

"The moveset for Scorpio is the same as in all his matches(vs Benoit at Superbrawl is a better match) and I acknowledged that Windham was motivated."

 

The Superbrawl match is very good as well. As for Scorpio having the smae moves in all of his matches, modern day "phenoms" such as Kurt Angle use the same moves at the same times in every match so your point is weak.

 

"But this was nothing more than Scorpio's spots(some of which were blown)"

 

Name the blown spots. It certainly isn't the rana. I bet I know what move you are going to say is blown but I won't speak of it until you say it and then will explain how it is not.

 

"and Windham trying to counter them."

 

The match is so much more than that.

 

"Plus for am atch to be truly legendary it has to relevant but this isn't relevant in the least. Scorpio disappeared till teaming with Bagwell and Windham became Flair's bitch."

 

Do you only watch WWF US stuff? Scorpio, back from the NJPW Best of the Super Juniors and off a great win against Benoit at Superbrawl, is trying to make a name for himself. Windham, the veteran wrestler and established star, wants no part of that and he throws his arsenal at Scorpio which includes a ton of great mid 1990's offense.

 

"I could name 20 matches in 1993(only from the US) ALONE better than Scorpio/Windham."

 

Please name them. That would be terrific.

 

"And just to confirm my opinion I'll rewatch the match tomorrow."

 

Ok.

 

Tim

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Tomorrow I'll rewatch the match and give you all the spots that I have complaints about. I never said anything bad about Scorpio. I said he has the same moves as always so it's nothing different than his other matches. And BTW I love Scorpio and wish he was much better used by WCW.

 

I know about Socrpio's hot streak in Japan and the commentators do mention that he's trying ot make a name for himself but what purpose did this match serve after the fact? Did either guy benefit from this match? Scorpio benefitted much more from the Benoit match than he did from this one. And Windham needed this match as much as Scorpio as his reign BLEW to this point with him winning the belt from Muta in one of the worst NWA title matches in years. And within a few weeks they gave up on Windham so this match has no long term significance whatsoever.

 

I acknowledge the fact that Scorpio's comeback got the crowd into it and by the end they were into Scorpio, but I ask you again, did this help him in the least? This match was barely mentioned after the fact.

 

Here are the 10 1993 matches off the top of my head better than it:

 

Horsemen/Blondes - Clash 23

Flair/Vader - Starcade 93

Flair/Sting - Saturday Night September(I'm not sure on the date)

Sting/Vader - Superbrawl 3

Benoit/Scorpio - Superbrawl 3

Hart/Hennig - KOTR 93

Blondes/Douglas & Steamboat - Saturday Night in April(or around there)

Vader/Foley - HH93

Vader/Foley - Saturday Night in April or June(they fought twice I'm referring to the one where Foley got hurt)

Flair & Anderson/Benoit & Eaton - Saturday Night in August

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Did either guy benefit from this match?"

 

That makes the match not good in your eyes? If it does, that is some strange criteria. Epic matches have plenty of backstory and meaning, but for a match to be good, it doesn't need that much.

 

"Horsemen/Blondes - Clash 23"

 

Flair looked like crap, the match was nothing more than an ordinary tag. Flair looked SO OLD coming back from his WWF run.

 

"Flair/Vader - Starcade 93"

 

Yuck. Vader was working on a level like the 3rd floor while Flair was still in the basement.

 

"Flair/Sting - Saturday Night September(I'm not sure on the date)"

 

Haven't seen this one but no Flair/Sting match is as good as the Windham/Scorpio match.

 

"Sting/Vader - Superbrawl 3"

 

This one is better. But this is also top 3 in US matches of the 1990's not to mention WCW.

 

"Benoit/Scorpio - Superbrawl 3"

 

Excellent Juniors match. I could live with someone saying this is better if they told me why with good reasoning.

 

"Hart/Hennig - KOTR 93"

 

Nah. This was a throw away Bret Hart match.

 

"Blondes/Douglas & Steamboat - Saturday Night in April(or around there)"

 

I've seen there Jan-March 1993 matches. They were pretty good but they weren't able to reach an MX/Fantastics level of greatness where as Windham/Scorpio took a singles match and did a lot of things story wise with it.

 

"Vader/Foley - HH93"

 

A mess. Vader's series with Sting kills the Foley matches.

 

"Vader/Foley - Saturday Night in April or June(they fought twice I'm referring to the one where Foley got hurt)"

 

See above. Just a potato match.

 

"Flair & Anderson/Benoit & Eaton - Saturday Night in August"

 

Need to see it still but I have my doubts.

 

From John Williams WCW Pimping Post hosted at DVDVR:

 

"19. Barry Windham vs. 2 Cold Scorpio (6/16/93 - Clash XXIII - NWA World Title)

Hey... more Barry Windham. There may be more before this is over.

This was Barry's last great match as he would blow out his knee later in the month, then screwed off when he should have been rehabbing, and never again was the God of Work that he once was.

Here's the basic premise of the match. Barry is Jumbo Tsuruta, circa May 1991, just younger, and not The Man like Jumbo was. Scorp was Kenta Kobashi circa May 1991, just not quite as good. This is Vet Star vs. Young Hot Shot, just like the May 1991 Jumbo vs. Kobashi. It's _not_ as good as the AJPW classic, but it is one of the very best Vet vs. Young Gun matches that the US produced in the decade.

Why? Because they both played their roles to perfection. Scorp brought the flashy offense. Barry brought the ability to layout a match, let Scorp up for his highspots, and cut him off and reel him back in. Oh yeah... Barry also brought excellent US heavy offense for the era. And Barry got to win in the end. When watching this match at the time, one could visualize NWA World Champ Barry touring the territories back in the early 80s, working against the local top face, and putting on a damn fine match.

I see Deano rated this fairly high. It's *not* as good as he rated it. But it is worthy of consideration, and is the type of smartly worked match that ages well. Seeing it on Dean's list does give me comfort that my quirkiness here is on the mark. "

 

- http://www.deathvalleydriver.com/jdwwcwballot.html

 

Tim

[Guest nWoScorpion]

Don't fight. You can't change one mans opinion on something. never does work. Windham use to kick ass, but i drifted away from wCw in 1992 and can't really comment on his work rate from then until 1996, when he just sucked. Scorpio was awesome up until his WWF run and definitly made a lot of people look better then they were. But I can't say much if these two fought when i didn't see the match yet.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

""Horsemen/Blondes - Clash 23"

 

Oridnary tag? This was excellent and Flair looked great here. Not as good as when he left NWA/WCW but he still looked good. The same basic story as in Scorpio/Windham with the younger team trying everything to beat the vets including using tactics which the vets used 5 years ago. But this is so much better. The moveset isn't as good but this match doesn't have any high flyers like Scorpio since Pillman was grounded completely at this point and didn't need a huge moveset. The 2/3 falls stip. brings this match back to the golden days of the 70's where yuongsters would try to unseat vets(usually the title holders) in 2/3 fall matches but always come close but fail. Very good story, top notch psychology...fuck just read my review don't even know why I bothered re-writing this one.

 

"Flair/Vader - Starcade 93"

 

This is one of my personal favorite matches of 93(only behind the strap match). Flair as the nervous veteran on his home turf looking for one last run at the glory. Vader the unstoppable monster who was destroyed everything in his path(and been champ for almost a year by now). And the match flow perfectly with at first Flair trying all his usual offense only to see the younger/ stronge Vader shut him down. Then Vader takes over and flair gets desperate and resorts to using a chair. Then Flair goes to work on the knee but even that, followed by a figure four, doesn't work. Just when it seems all hope is lost for cagy veteran he pulls out an old trick(a clip into a roll-up which was botched) to shock the younger, not as experienced champion. Great story, brutal match with vader just murdering Flair, and a HOT crowd.

 

"Flair/Sting - Saturday Night September(I'm not sure on the date)"

 

Won't argue about this one since you haven't seen it.

 

"Sting/Vader - Superbrawl 3"

 

Top 3 WCW, not US. But in general agreed.

 

"Benoit/Scorpio - Superbrawl 3"

 

A match which no one was expecting to be good. Two youngsters both fresh from Japan get one shot at the glory. At first both men are nervous and work the mat as the crowd deosn't buy it. Then as the match builds Benoit loses his jitters first and takes over only to have Scorpio wake up at around 12-13 minute mark with his offence, which leads to a very hot pinning reversal sequence in which Scorpio pulls it off with something like 1 second left. Hotter crowd, more fluid moves and the technical exchanges early are revolutionary to the WCW crowd. Overall I'd rank this just a bit higher.

 

"Hart/Hennig - KOTR 93"

 

This was a wonderfulyl flowing technical classic with smart psychology(Hennig working on Hart's finger), Hennig coming out of his babyface shell going back to his Summerslam 91 tactics(hair pulling, ropes, etc.) and a smart edning in which Bret proves that no matter what Hennig, Bret is the better man.

 

"Blondes/Douglas & Steamboat - Saturday Night in April(or around there)"

 

No where near MX/Fantastics but I personally prefer those to the MX/RR matches thus they are some of the best US tag matches of the 80's. I could live with you saying Windham/Scorpio is better than this since this match is pretty interchangeable with the ones you mentioned.

 

"Vader/Foley - HH93"

 

I didn't compare this with the Stign series. The hatred between these two men, the brutality, the reactions from Vader when Cactus Jack wouldn't stay down. An excellent war only hampered by a shitty ending.

 

"Vader/Foley - Saturday Night in April or June(they fought twice I'm referring to the one where Foley got hurt)"

 

See above pretty much.

 

"Flair & Anderson/Benoit & Eaton - Saturday Night in August"

 

You haven't seen it so I won't argue.

 

 

Now I rewatched Scorpio/Windham and I enjoyed it a bit more but still not top 20 WCW calibre. The Rana was still very weird as after it both guys sort of did nothing for a few seconds, but I'm guessing was supposed to count and missed his cue. The other spots I thought were botched were ok so I'll let that slide. And even after rewatching it I still wouldn't rate it higher than TOPS ***1/3.