Ok you hoes.

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

Technically it's lineage is the IC title - but we'll pretend for one brief moment that the average mark is unaware of that. It's a new title and it's basically worthless.

 

A lot of you guys say the mark doesn't buy long title stints anymore - but how else to strengthen the belt? Switching it every month would make it even weaker.

 

So here's the problem. Assume if you will that there is NO OTHER WAY TO KEEP THE BELT STRONG other than to have it on your most established superstar (who, like it or not, is El Fuckface HHH). People point out that HHH beats every single one of his opponents and they're burried.

 

What I'm saying is - wouldn't you be complaining RVD was burrying his opponents if he was booked to hold the title for 6 months? Was Flair guilty of burrying his opposition when he held the belt for months at a time?

 

How would you keep the belt strong (establish it as a sought after gem) and keep the roster from being burried?

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I think you can keep the belt strong with a long reign, I like longer reigns. But Hunter is just putting on shit matches right now. And once you get into the backstage shit it just hurts the belt.

[Guest TonyJaymzV1]

I wouldnt mind it if 1) Triple H coould still put on good macthes 2) He was hand selecting his successors and 3) that he doesnt completely and utterly bury someone.

[Guest MixxMaster]

"Hoes"???? What in the hell do gardening tools have to do with this???

[Guest Breetai]

What I'm saying is - wouldn't you be complaining RVD was burrying his opponents if he was booked to hold the title for 6 months? Was Flair guilty of burrying his opposition when he held the belt for months at a time?

Holding a title for a long time does not constitute burial. Constantly making your opponents look like jobbers, kicking out of multiple finishers, and cutting off your opponent's momentum when all logic and sanity suggests that the match should flow his way for a while is. And let's not forget the wonderful joys of pinning someone sucessfully 27 seconds after hitting your finisher. It's not how many times he goes over, it's how he does it.

[Guest Anglesault]

Going over every challenger with the Pedigree could be stopped.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Maybe if you could be sure that the belt wasn't going to stay on a Clique member it would make things easier to deal with.

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

But people said HHH burried RVD. Well RVD did get thrown down the card but I think that's the writers' fault. If memory serves me right - RVD had the match won until Flair interfered.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

And RVD's on Heat now...while HHH who's not half as over (but fucking the bosses daughter) remains on top and putting on average at best matches

[Guest Anglesault]

But people said HHH burried RVD. Well RVD did get thrown down the card but I think that's the writers' fault. If memory serves me right - RVD had the match won until Flair interfered.

Which wasn't the fucking finish. GOD-UH wouldn't let the sledge be the finish. It had to be a Pedigree.

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

That's true but HHH was SELLING for RVD to the point that RVD had the match won. If HHH is accused to burrial through no selling and belittling his opponents offense - this was not the case.

[Guest Breetai]

But people said HHH burried RVD. Well RVD did get thrown down the card but I think that's the writers' fault. If memory serves me right - RVD had the match won until Flair interfered.

No, it was the booking of the special referee match that did it; logic dictates that the ref be a heel, and try to help the heel win. This means that either 1. the heel gets more heat on him if he wins and the face is protected, or 2. the face gets mega heat for triumphing even against unfair odds.

 

Not only was that match booked as having a face ref, against all convention and sanity, but HHH WON, thereby making RVD look so out of his league that he couldn't even beat him with the help of Sean friggin' Michaels.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Well, you have to consider..

 

The belt's supposed to mean something, right? On Raw, it dosen't..because nobody has a chance of taking it away from Triple H. It looks like he's going to beat his opponent, so nobody gives a fuck. He SHOULD be looking like he's dodging opponents, or like he's afraid of the challenge..or that it's a challenge at all.

 

The belt's just a peice of his entrance gear, really. That's all it is now.

[Guest DawnBTVS]

...Let HHH win by *gasp* CHEATING~! Ala Flair...let HHH win by feet on ropes, etc. Get him over as a Honky Tonk Man type heel who cheats and tries everything to keep his title by nefarious means thus the marks grow to hate his guts and wish anybody would beat him. Also, the less clean wins HHH has, the better as he would get more heat as a result. Then let challengers face him at PPV's with the fans pulling for the next challenger even more then the first one, etc. until HHH jobs...

[Guest Anglesault]

People that lost to the Pedigree as opposed to cheating

 

RVD

Bubba

Steiner

Booker.

Kane? (I don't remember)

 

Main challengers to HHH's belt.

 

RVD

Bubba

Steiner

Booker.

Kane

HBK

 

Hmm.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

HHH was over like a bastard in 99 and 00...and he ended up winning most of his matches cleanly...but he could also work back then, too

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

1) Long reigns = Good.

 

2) HHH with the title = Bad.

 

3) 2 > 1

[Guest The Tino Standard]

Getting back on topic...

 

Long title reigns don't make titles more important- constantly having matches for it does. When fans see wrestlers constantly going after a title with the champion constantly defending it, they say, "well this title must mean something if these guys are chasing after it this hard."

 

In this regard, I wish the I-C title would've stayed retired. The belt was absorbed into the World Heavyweight Championship and eliminated as a separated entity. I would've created a World Television Championship on Raw.

 

It would still be the midcard belt, but it would be a brand new one to Raw (and WWE for that matter). You could set a 15-min. time limit on matches and have the belt defended every single week. Title reigns would be shorter, but it would be an on-going 'king of the hill' type of thing for the midcarders. If it really caught on, it could be the weekly 10pm main event, right in the middle of the card.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

That's why Flair held the belt so long and no one complained, because he cheated like a mother, and was actually, you know, a heel.

 

HHH meanwhile, is periously close to X Pac heat. He consistently overcomes outside distractions and all obstacles placed in his path, to cleanly and decisively prove he is the best in the business. Too bad he's supposed to be the BAD GUY.

[Guest CanadianChris]

Was Flair guilty of burrying his opposition when he held the belt for months at a time?

Not in the least, since the booker was typically Dusty Rhodes, who went out of his way to make Flair look as weak as he possibly could. Whenever Flair held the book, his matches and/or feuds were generally designed to make both guys look good (see Steamboat, Rick; Funk, Terry; White, Leon).

 

That's one HUGE difference between Flair and HHH...whereas both men, when they were in control of storylines (HHH, while not holding the pencil, does seem to have an inordinate control over his character), sought to put themselves on top, Flair actually booked to elevate other wrestlers along with himself, while HHH seeks to make them look weak, inept and foolish.

[JasonX 0]

HHH meanwhile, is periously close to X Pac heat.

Uh, HHH ALREADY HAS X-Pac "Get the Fuck Off My TV" Heat.....

[Guest papacita]

I've said before (not like I'm an authority or anything, but still) that a Champion's only as good as the level of competition he has for his title. As of now, it's as if he basically has no competition, because no one other than Booker has even expressed interest in the thing, and he's been beaten. Hell, before Shawn won the belt, he all but said that he *didn't* want the belt. How are you supposed to believe that a title's important when no one wants it?

 

I do blame the writers for this more than I'd blame HHH though.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

Technically it's lineage is the IC title - but we'll pretend for one brief moment that the average mark is unaware of that. It's a new title and it's basically worthless.

 

A lot of you guys say the mark doesn't buy long title stints anymore - but how else to strengthen the belt? Switching it every month would make it even weaker.

 

So here's the problem. Assume if you will that there is NO OTHER WAY TO KEEP THE BELT STRONG other than to have it on your most established superstar (who, like it or not, is El Fuckface HHH). People point out that HHH beats every single one of his opponents and they're burried.

 

What I'm saying is - wouldn't you be complaining RVD was burrying his opponents if he was booked to hold the title for 6 months? Was Flair guilty of burrying his opposition when he held the belt for months at a time?

 

How would you keep the belt strong (establish it as a sought after gem) and keep the roster from being burried?

If RVD was the champ for 6 months he will be putting out entertaining matches instead of that cripple Hurter.

[Guest notJames]

Another problem with HHH on top is that every challenger has been dispatched pretty quickly. None of his title feuds have lasted longer than two months (Scott Steiner). How is this supposed to elevate anyone if the challengers don't get to sustain any kind of rivalry?

[Guest Coffey]

If RVD was the champ for 6 months he will be putting out entertaining matches instead of that cripple Hurter.

I'd rather watch H³'s offense as the champion than watch RVD's offense as the champion. The only move that RVD has that I like is his 5* finish. H³ has a couple of spots that I like.

 

Just my opinion.

 

That doesn't mean that your statement was wrong however. I think that babyfaces make better champions to begin with. Add in the fact that the fans want to cheer RVD and his run could be special. Plus, RVD is good at taking bumps on certain moves like DDT's, Piledrivers & German Suplexes.

 

[Guest notJames]

Good point. WW_ has more or less been the Land of the Face Champion, as opposed to Flair's NWA. It's only natural that the fans would be more receptive to the underdog champ who takes a lickin' and comes up smelling like a rose, especially in the Good Ol' USA.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

But at Least RVD's over with the people. If the fans just weren't sick of Hunter it would work better.

[Guest OnlyMe]

Remember that the SmackDown! tag titles have only existed for pretty much as long as the Raw World title.

 

I think that match quality and angles that show that people CARE about the belt are huge factors, and a big reason why the SD! Tag Titles are more respected.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Remember that the SmackDown! tag titles have only existed for pretty much as long as the Raw World title.

 

I think that match quality and angles that show that people CARE about the belt are huge factors, and a big reason why the SD! Tag Titles are more respected.

Bingo. We've also had two decent-to-good reigns in Los Guerreros & Team Angle (Angle/Benoit & Edge/Rey never really did anything with them). Personally I find Team Angle to be the most entertaining Tag Champs since the heyday of Edge & Christian.

 

Even if I considered it a real World Title, HHH's current reign is probably the third worst WWF Title reign ever. The worst is Diesel's 1995 run, and second worst is HHH's first reign with this title that involved the Katie Vick feud. Short reigns like Stan Stasiak or Vince McMahon are bad, but they are so short that they can't get much below the zero level. The worst reigns are all relatively long ones that reach way down in the negatives.

 

The World Title involves two of the worst three reigns ever and the third was by a washed-up cripple who flopped as champ when he was actually good. He also lost the title in his first defense, to the previous champion.

 

The best match involving the title was probably HHH/Booker at Wrestlemania and was overshadowed by not only the WWE Title match but also Rock/Austin, & HBK/Jericho as well. Personally, I found myself more interested in Hogan/Vince as well, even though it wasn't as good a match.

 

The Smackdown Tag Titles have been involved in numerous ***+ matches, a couple of ****+ matches, and were first awarded in the 2002 Match of the Year. That is why people care about it more than the RAW World Title.