Could HHH lose some of his clout post JD?

[Guest Cerebus]

Ok, admittedly, this has no basis but logic....seein the ratings plummet, the reaction to anything Nash related in the last two weeks (not only at Raw but at House Shows) being beyond abysmal, and the soon to be terrible buy rates for Backlash and JD do you think HHH will start to lose some of his clout... I mean Vince loves an asskisser...but even HE can only take so much before reality sets in.

 

Just some toughts...

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

You mean the soon-to-be Mr. Stephanie McMahon? If Vince hasn't seen how bad HHH has been as a champ by now, there is no reason to assume he will in the future.

[Guest CanadianChick]

1) If his Royal Rumble match didn't convince Vince that he's crappy, there is nothing that will, including Nash.

 

2) Backlash wouldn't be blamed on HHH, it would be blamed on Goldberg, if it is blamed on a particular wrestler.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Who knows how Vince's mind works. I'll never understand that man. I have no idea what Vince will think of all this.

[Guest Sakura]

If Vince is so out of touch and a poor businessman he'd blame the war on the ratings going down then I don't see how this would change anything.

 

Yes, a rational person with common sense would realize not to book to please HHH. But this is Vince...

[Guest El Satanico]

Only if Stephanie becomes the Liz to HHH's Luger

[Guest Cerebus]

2) Backlash wouldn't be blamed on HHH, it would be blamed on Goldberg, if it is blamed on a particular wrestler.

I know we hate Vince McMahon...but even he can't be deaf enough to hear the crowd reaction between Nash and Goldberg or blind enough to see the amount of people that left for the Nash/HHH main event at house shows!

[Guest Sakura]

Vince hears it. He just doesn't care. Why should Vince care what the fans think? If they don't like it they can just get up and leave or change the channel.

[Guest the pinjockey]

2) Backlash wouldn't be blamed on HHH, it would be blamed on Goldberg, if it is blamed on a particular wrestler.

I know we hate Vince McMahon...but even he can't be deaf enough to hear the crowd reaction between Nash and Goldberg or blind enough to see the amount of people that left for the Nash/HHH main event at house shows!

Oh you better believe if they don't blame Goldberg and Vince started to look at HHH and Nash, HHH would throw Nash under the train in a heartbeat.

[Guest CanadianChick]

2) Backlash wouldn't be blamed on HHH, it would be blamed on Goldberg, if it is blamed on a particular wrestler.

I know we hate Vince McMahon...but even he can't be deaf enough to hear the crowd reaction between Nash and Goldberg or blind enough to see the amount of people that left for the Nash/HHH main event at house shows!

Oh you better believe if they don't blame Goldberg and Vince started to look at HHH and Nash, HHH would throw Nash under the train in a heartbeat.

heh, I think my post was misunderstood. I said Backlash not Judgment Day. But still, the points about Trips and Nash are well taken.

[Guest teke184]

According to Meltz, the number of Backlash buys was estimated to be around 400,000. That's in the .8 buyrate range, give or take (500,000 is just under 1.0 these days).

 

Given that the average PPV (non-Big 5 ones)get an average buyrate between .6 and .7 these days, that's above normal. It's still below what they expected for bringing Goldberg in.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Vince has shown time and time again that he scoffs at those who don't like his vision. If it's something small and not really personal to him he might fix it, but if you dare bash his ideas he gets defensive and makes excuses as to why you're wrong....well atleast if you're media or net fans.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

HHH will never be blamed. Why? Ahem, now pay attention:

 

VINCE IS STUPID!

 

And I can easily see this all being Jericho's fault for not making Nash look strong enough.

[Guest Cerebus]

I think people here don't give Vince credit...now before you drown me in "Dandogg" chants hear me out...

 

I always thought of Vince as the typical "Evil Genius" type person. Many of the most brilliant people have been nutjobs (Hemingway for instance). It takes people like that to think of ways to do thing that are unique and untried. But these personalities, by nature, are jealous arrogant, and unreasonable. You have to be to get your scoffed at idea anywhere in the first place. It is hard to think the same Vince that started the WWF, created Hulkimania, gave us the great feuds of the early 90's, and the attitude era would be so blind, deaf, and stupid in 2003. There well could be two Vinces, one brilliant and one jealous and unreasonable. Maybe it will take hitting rock bottom for the brilliant Vince to emerge again.

 

Once again, just the thoughts of this lonely mark...

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I think it's more that Vince was a good risk taker more than being a genius. Some of the gimmicks and ideas he's pitched in the past make me question his sanity. A lot of the ideas for matches, ppv's, gimmicked matches, have come from the people who work with Vince. Like Pat Patterson being the one who came up with the Royal Rumble idea. Vince just had the balls to run with things.

 

Now Vince is surrounded by yes men and no one is there to filter the bad ideas. That's what most ex-WWE employees say.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I came to terms with this a long time ago...

 

... Vince *is* a Moron.

[Guest Cerebus]

You could be right....*feels old idealism shatter into a thousand pieces*

[Guest Blue Bacchus]

I tend to believe that the McMahons (Including HHH) know that the WWE is slowly bleeding to death. They are trying to fix it is what matters. The surveys, the older "Veteran" talent putting over new talent, Creating New Stars, the Brand Extension, and giving the marks what they want (Steiner and Goldberg).

 

Vince has shown time and time again that he scoffs at those who don't like his vision. If it's something small and not really personal to him he might fix it, but if you dare bash his ideas he gets defensive and makes excuses as to why you're wrong....well atleast if you're media or net fans.

 

If you had created something hugely successful and over time people started to overly critcize your baby, you'd get defensive too. George Lucas suffers from the same thing. Then again the truth hurts.

 

Both sides are right and wrong.

[Guest cabbageboy]

Make no mistake, Nash will end up on the same scrap heap with Steiner when all is said and done here. So far Nash has done even WORSE than Steiner did, since at least Steiner was over before he had the lousy match.

 

At this point I have to wonder what they will do when Goldberg takes on HHH. That has all the makings of a total fiasco, because Goldberg isn't going to job to him. I almost think there will be a major blow up there resulting in Goldberg likely getting fired if they demand he jobs.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Vince has had more failures than successes.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Nash won't end up like Steiner. The worst he will end up being is tag champs with HBK - and then move on to a feud with HBK, and then him, HBK and HHH will all make up in the end.

[Guest Mole]

Vince just thinks he can never be wrong, that's all.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Nash is one of Vince's favorites anyway.

 

HHH won't have to worry.

[Guest Kingpk]

It is hard to think the same Vince that started the WWF, created Hulkimania, gave us the great feuds of the early 90's, and the attitude era would be so blind, deaf, and stupid in 2003. There well could be two Vinces, one brilliant and one jealous and unreasonable. Maybe it will take hitting rock bottom for the brilliant Vince to emerge again.

 

Once again, just the thoughts of this lonely mark...

I've said this before, but I think Vince is just happy with having a monopoly over the North American wrestling scene and doesn't really care about how the product is recieved by wrestling fans anymore. Now he wants to try to branch out, which has failed a hell of a lot more times (XFL, WBF, XFL, No Holds Barred, XFL) than succeeded (The Scorpion King).

 

Back when the WWF was in the shitter in '95, Vince actually put some thought in ways to revive his company because there was the threat of Ted Turner (his mortal enemy) actually bumping him from the top for good. That threat is gone now.

[Guest Space_Cowboy]

Vince is a senile old fool, HHH/Nash could be the worst match of all time and he wouldn't change anything or do a thing about it.

[Guest Mole]

It is hard to think the same Vince that started the WWF, created Hulkimania, gave us the great feuds of the early 90's, and the attitude era would be so blind, deaf, and stupid in 2003. There well could be two Vinces, one brilliant and one jealous and unreasonable. Maybe it will take hitting rock bottom for the brilliant Vince to emerge again.

 

Once again, just the thoughts of this lonely mark...

I've said this before, but I think Vince is just happy with having a monopoly over the North American wrestling scene and doesn't really care about how the product is recieved by wrestling fans anymore. Now he wants to try to branch out, which has failed a hell of a lot more times (XFL, WBF, XFL, No Holds Barred, XFL) than succeeded (The Scorpion King).

 

Back when the WWF was in the shitter in '95, Vince actually put some thought in ways to revive his company because there was the threat of Ted Turner (his mortal enemy) actually bumping him from the top for good. That threat is gone now.

Well Scorpian King wasn't really his idea, he just happened to be the Executive Producer.

 

He should care though, because at this rate, WWE will be going down the tubes in a few years.

[Guest Trivia247]

the World title has been Stagnant while under HHH in this current stint than any time in the history of the Fed.. Even Bruno Sammartino holding the title for like 8 years was still wrestling those house shows verses guys that you'd think could beat him. And back then it was all just house shows..

 

But in the era of Smart Marks we can tell with HHH holding the belt now, the control he has in the booking department thanks to Steph's influence we are sure than only HHH's buddies are the ones that can lift the belt off him. But even then its for how long.. HBK won the World title at Survivor Series then lost it again.

So even if Say Nash beats HHH and wins the belt 2 out of 3 you can expect HHH to beat him by the next Raw PPV and we are stuck again.

 

My feeling is the first nonCliq Wrestler finally gets the belt, then will the belt regain some meaning and be defended as such...

[Guest Mole]

He isn't going to loose the title to Nash at JD. Nash got the upper hand on Raw, so WWE logic says that Triple-Juice will win at JD.

[Guest ShooterJay]

There's only one world title in WWE- Brock's. Period. To compare whatever HHH has with Sammartino is ridiculous.

 

There needs to be one floating champion again, because HHH is killing the prestige of Brock's belt by osmosis.

[Guest crandamaniac]

I truly belive Vince, like Dynamite Kid said in his book, comes up with stuff purely for his own enjoyment. Just seems like a lot of what he enjoys isn't what we enjoy.