RWTL 96 and 97 Thoughts

[Guest TheGame2705]

I'm not sure if one of these finals was considered the best tag match ever but as far as these two I was unimpressed. Everyone talks about all the exciting story and psychology but they neglect to leave out that every match has an unbearable amount of no-selling and tag team rules are thrown out the window.

 

The only person I liked in these matches was Jun Akiyama. He had the right amount of selling/no-selling, psychology, and just was generally good. I enjoyed him and what he did in the match. I also liked Kawada but not as much Akiyama. A match with Ace/Kobashi against some other team (I think Honda but I can't tell the other guy) left me impressed with Kobashi. I think he was the only one that convinced me that his no-selling was purposeful besides Akiyama.

 

I thoroughly hated whenever Kawada would stiff kick Misawa in the head only for Misawa to turn around and forearm him a couple thousand times. The no-selling was just stupid.

 

Partners would enter the ring and just stand their to guard the pinner. Akira Taue did it blatantly. WHAT?! Obviously it's easy to have a good tag match when you can have all four people in alot of the time. I also hate how you can hit a move and get a nearfall but later on if you hit it again you get the win. That makes your finisher look like SHIT that it's not good enough to knock them out, they already have to be near dead for it to work.

 

Speaking of the shitty false finishes. At one point I forget who was in the ring but I believe Taue is on the apron while Kawada gets pinned and he just stays on the apron to rest because he knows Kawada will kick out. Ummm...ok.

 

I was more impressed with Hayabusa/Jinsei vs. Kawada/Taue because it didn't have alot of Taue and their were GOOD nearfalls.

 

Right now I can say I won't be ordering anymore of these "classics" unless they involve Kobashi or Akiyama and maybe Kawada. If this is what makes the style so great and alot of people like it for the crappy and/or no selling and the stiff brawling I suggest you check out Ahmed Johnson, Albert, (he would be king. He has a good moveset, does power moves, and has poor selling at times), and Ron Simmons.

[Guest XdojimeX]

'96 is considered an all-time classic. Most feel by '97 the matchup ran out of steam and couldn't live up to the standard previously set. Still an excellent match on its own merits IMO.

 

"I also hate how you can hit a move and get a nearfall but later on if you hit it again you get the win."

 

Wow, not to be a dick but have you ever watched Japanese wrestling before? Its called an accumulative effect. Finishers aren't considered finishers as much as they are 'big moves'. Its not the traditional 'one and done' US psychology.

 

I dont have the energy to respond to the rest of your post right now so I'll defer to someone else (and its been awhile since Ive seen the actual matches) but a word of advice, Ahmed Johnson comparisons probably aren't the best way to ingnite a healthy debate about All Japan.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

12/6/96 is probably the greatest men's match of all time. If you watched Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue's previous matches, Misawa/Akiyama vs. Doc/Ace you would have a much better understanding of the style, the story line, and the character's motivations.

 

What was it I said in the Matches to check out thread, ah yes, don't start off with 12/6/96, dumbass. You directly went against what others more familar with the style warned, and than you wonder why the hell you don't get it. People just don't say that shit, just to say it. It's to avoid stupid posts lists this.

 

"The only person I liked in these matches was Jun Akiyama. He had the right amount of selling/no-selling, psychology, and just was generally good. I enjoyed him and what he did in the match. I also liked Kawada but not as much Akiyama"

 

edit: On second thought just check out Black Tiger's reivew where he goes through all four guy's motivations, nice and to the point.

 

"I thoroughly hated whenever Kawada would stiff kick Misawa in the head only for Misawa to turn around and forearm him a couple thousand times. The no-selling was just stupid."

 

It's not like Kawada's mini shin kicks were killer over, knock you on your ass strikes. They were trading shots, stupid. Kawada would kick him, Misawa would elbow him, eventually Misawa rocks Kawada with a Reverse Elbow, but he stays on his feet long enough to fire off a Gamengiri and get the last hit in. Afterwards there's a double k.o, which is to show both guys were beaten and exhausted after the exchange.

 

Besides, no selling of common strikes really doesn't count as no selling. Fuck, you watch the WWE, they go out there punching each other back and forth all the time. It's really the same thing here. Besides, the All Japan guys do a hell of let better job of putting over common strikes than the WWE guys. You won't see Rock and Austin both collapse after trading punches, now do you?

 

The only instance of real no selling is when Misawa pops up from a Release German on Taue at the end. But this was a final act of desperation from a defeated man, the Running Elbow which was normally finisher strength, barely backed Taue up. Plus Misawa had alot of time to recover before taking the German, so it's logical that he summoned enough power(like he did in the 95 Taue match) to be able to survive the Suplex and mount a come back through sheer force of will power(which is what being the Man is all about). Though this time, he had taken too much punishment, and a comeback was out of the question.

 

 

"Partners would enter the ring and just stand their to guard the pinner. Akira Taue did it blatantly. WHAT?! Obviously it's easy to have a good tag match when you can have all four people in alot of the time. "

 

I love that spot, Kawada has Jun in a Sleeper so Taue steps in to stand guard. Even in America, when there is a submission or pin attempt, you can run in and break it up or help your partner since the ref is counting or checking to see if the guy want's to say uncle it creates the opportunity to enter the ring . Even in the recent Smackdown tag matches matches, they have instances where the ref loses control and all four guys are in the ring at the same time. Damn, have you ever even seen a Tag Match before, anywhere?

 

 

"I also hate how you can hit a move and get a nearfall but later on if you hit it again you get the win. That makes your finisher look like SHIT that it's not good enough to knock them out, they already have to be near dead for it to work. "

 

-This is the most dumbest quote ever, it's going in my sig, buddy. Let's see it's logical that two Powerbombs hurt more than one, wouldn't you agree. Besides Misawa is the Top unbeatable Man in the company, of course it takes more than one finisher to pin him.

 

"Speaking of the shitty false finishes. At one point I forget who was in the ring but I believe Taue is on the apron while Kawada gets pinned and he just stays on the apron to rest because he knows Kawada will kick out. Ummm...ok."

 

These guys have been parnters for nearly three years, they know the other's limit. And everytime their's a crediblie finish, if the other guy is able, he'll rush into break up the pin. Taue broke up the Tiger Driver didn't he.

 

"I was more impressed with Hayabusa/Jinsei vs. Kawada/Taue because it didn't have alot of Taue and their were GOOD nearfalls."

 

I guess your one of those guys, that hate Taue because isn't sexy enough for you.

 

Right now I can say I won't be ordering anymore of these "classics" unless they involve Kobashi or Akiyama and maybe Kawada. If this is what makes the style so great and alot of people like it for the crappy and/or no selling and the stiff brawling I suggest you check out Ahmed Johnson, Albert, (he would be king. He has a good moveset, does power moves, and has poor selling at times), and Ron Simmons.

 

O.K., I'll go check out this Ahmed Johnson and Albert. (insert rolling eyes emoticon).

Edited May 28, 2003 by Coffin Surfer

[Guest Black Tiger]

Coffin Surfer,

 

Relax, holy cow. TheGame wasn't thrilled with 12/6/96, he's also new to puroresu. Don't have a coronary.

 

TheGame check out This Thread for a better understanding of that match

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Another THREAD OF THE YEAR CANDIDATE!

 

Game:

 

Do you know the history of Kawada, Misawa, Taue, and Akiyama?

 

It stretches back to the final match of the 1988 RWTL, when Kawada was in the EXACT same position as Akiyama.

 

It stretches back to final match of the 1993 RWTL, where Kawada continues his story of having enough to win, but something always getting in the way (this time his knee).

 

It goes back to Misawa being the MAN, someone who only loses when you really have enough to beat him.

 

The Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue story covers all of 1996. Misawa was always there to save Akiyama when he needed help, which helped him pin Kawada on 5/23.

 

Same goes for 6/7/96 against Williams/Ace.

 

Kawada on 12/6 is making the final stage to beating Misawa in a singles match.

 

Taue is showing he is a top dog, no matter what anyone else says.

 

But if you don't want to see any more of this, doesn't bother me.

 

I'm sure Trips will put on plenty of quality matches, drenched deeply in 8 yrs of storyline.

 

Tim

[Guest Black Tiger]

Tim,

 

I have a question for you: 6/7/96 vs Ace/Williams. Wasn;t this the match where they lost the titles tag titles? If it is, what role does it play?

[Guest BionicRedneck]

hmmmm, I have a feeling that someone is trying to cause controversy here.

 

It's a really, really great match. End of story.

 

I'll leave Ahmed, thanks.

[Guest Dangerous Back Drop]

Misawa & Akiyama lost the belts to Williams & Ace in September, same show where Kobashi defended against Hansen.

 

And Kawada didn't "have enough to win," unless he was going to beat Kobashi, which he'd already done once in the year - doing so again would mean nothing, and he wasn't close to beating Misawa. Winning the Tag League would have simply capped off a year where they'd already beaten Misawa & Kobashi to defend their titles. Instead, Kobashi was the one who 'grew up' in December and got the big win, one that kicked off a title reign of a year and a half.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Instead, Kobashi was the one who 'grew up' in December and got the big win, one that kicked off a title reign of a year and a half.

Kobashi won the Triple Crown in July of 1996 and lost it to Misawa in January of 1997, that's a long way off from a title reign of a year and a half.

 

Or your talking about something completely different and I totally missed the point

[Guest Dangerous Back Drop]

There's a line of space between the 2 sentences for a reason. Re-read the thread more closely.

[Guest Banky]

I think Jubuki's back.

 

buwuwhaha

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Tim,

 

I have a question for you: 6/7/96 vs Ace/Williams. Wasn;t this the match where they lost the titles tag titles? If it is, what role does it play?

This a match where Jun is getting destroyed by Steven Williams and Johnny Ace, and Misawa not only saves him, but sacrifices himself to Williams and Ace to by him time to recover from his beating. It really goes deep into Misawa and Jun's relationship, that would be so key to 12/6/96.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I think Jubuki's back.

 

buwuwhaha

No retard, if you'd actually read these boards rather than just come here to look for trouble, you'd know that I have been posting frequently throughout the past year.

 

I also question The Game's motives for this post, it just didn't feel like it was made from innocent igonrance. Maybe I was wrong, but so what.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Like Coffin Surfer said.

 

If you want to get the full 1996 tag relationship, check out the following:

 

3/2 Kobashi/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue

- See how Kobashi is barely competant to make sure he stays safe...he can't help Akiyama against the #2 tag team in the world.

 

5/23 Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue

- Akiyama pins Kawada. He doesn't do it because he is as good as Kawada. He does it with the help of Misawa.

 

6/7 Misawa/Akiyama v Williams/Ace

- Spectacular match with Akiyama standing toe to toe with the mean gajins and Misawa making sure Akiyama gets his chance to shine.

 

7/9 Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue

- Eh, not a favorite of mine but again, the same basic story is told, though maybe toned down a little bit more for this match.

 

Tim

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

I think Jubuki's back.

 

buwuwhaha

No retard, if you'd actually read these boards rather than just come here to look for trouble, you'd know that I have been posting frequently throughout the past year.

 

I also question The Game's motives for this post, it just didn't feel like it was made from innocent igonrance. Maybe I was wrong, but so what.

I think he's refering to Dangerous Back Drop.

[Guest Banky]

I think Jubuki's back.

 

buwuwhaha

No retard, if you'd actually read these boards rather than just come here to look for trouble, you'd know that I have been posting frequently throughout the past year.

 

I also question The Game's motives for this post, it just didn't feel like it was made from innocent igonrance. Maybe I was wrong, but so what.

I do read when I look for trouble.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

O.K., I was wandering where the hell that was coming from, because I didn't see how anybody who's remotely browsed here could mistake me for a Jubuki incarnation considering how long I've been around.

 

 

Oh and Tim, you forget about 11/29/96 which leads to one of my fav. false finishes of all time in 12/96. If you haven't seen it, you should really go out of your way to watch it. 12/96 plays almost exactly off the ending to 11/96, same moves and everything, and I think it actually pops up around the same time too(20 minutes in or so). It deals with Taue's inablity into stop Misawa and Jun from double teaming Kawada.

 

Oh, and I busted out 12/6/96 today, and gave it a real good watch for the first time a while. To be honest, I have no clue as to what Game is talking about with the disrespect for tag rules. The ref does an excellent job of keeping the match under control, and everytime he orders some one out of the ring, they go when they are suppose to. If your looking for cliched distract the refs spots, and all that jazz, your not gonna find to much of that in mid 90s All Japan.

 

If you want a tag match more similar to what your seeing in the states, check out the Can Am Connection vs. Kobashi/Kikuchi which oddly enough is in my intro to All Japan post in the matches to check out thread, which also suggests not to start out with 12/6/96.

[Guest TheGame2705]

What was it I said in the Matches to check out thread, ah yes, don't start off with 12/6/96, dumbass.  You directly went against what others more familar with the style warned, and than you wonder why the hell you don't get it.  People just don't say that shit, just to say it.  It's to avoid stupid posts lists this.

Why not start off with a good match? What does that say about the match if you need to watch 28 other matches involving the same guys to "get" the match. That's ridiculous and only shows that as a stand-alone it's average and it needs the fairy tale to make it a classic.

 

Sounds to me, like this is very much your first All Japan match, which goes back to my above post.  I suggest you read Jubuki's review of the match at Air Raid Crash or the other great view over at Ququabra(or however you spell it).

I like this one, calling me a dumbass then you don't even know how to spell the site you want me to check out.

 

It's not like Kawada's mini shin kicks were killer over, knock you on your ass strikes.

I'm disappointed, these are supposed to be the extraordinary wrestlers who put over common moves.

 

You won't see Rock and Austin both collapse after trading punches, now do you?

I also don't see one of them getting kicked in the face then deliver a volley of punches unphased.

 

Even in America, when there is a submission or pin attempt, you can run in and break it up or help your partner since the ref is counting or checking to see if the guy want's to say uncle it creates the opportunity to enter the ring .  Even in the recent Smackdown tag matches matches, they have instances where the ref loses control and all four guys are in the ring at the same time.  Damn, have you ever even seen a Tag Match before, anywhere?

Yea, keyword: run in and break it up. Not walk in and stand guard. In the matches where the ref can't get control, he needs to get control of 4 guys, not one guy who decided to come in and stand around. Also, that's a stupid question. I've just told you I saw two.

 

Let's see it's logical that two Powerbombs hurt more than one, wouldn't you agree.  Besides Misawa is the Top unbeatable Man in the company, of course it takes more than one finisher to pin him.

It's also logical to say that if your powerbomb was good then you wouldn't you have to do it 4 more times.

 

These guys have been parnters for  nearly three years, they know the other's limit.  And everytime their's a crediblie finish, if the other guy is able, he'll rush into break up the pin.  Taue broke up the Tiger Driver didn't he.

They aren't having sex for crying out loud with all this talk about 3 year partners and knowing each other's limits. It's just more of Taue being too revolutionary in tag matches for my plebian mind I guess.

[Guest TheGame2705]

I'm sure Trips will put on plenty of quality matches, drenched deeply in 8 yrs of storyline.

 

Well from what you and CS said about what it takes to be the man then I guess Triple H is the American version of Misawa.

 

Broken Down Shell of his old self: check

Gets over common moves as finishers:check

Uses political games: check

Big Ego: check

Unbeatable: check

Needs more than one finisher to be beaten:check

 

I also had fun watching the matches from the HHH/Rock series. They have about 6 years of history together.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

"Why not start off with a good match? What does that say about the match if you need to watch 28 other matches involving the same guys to "get" the match. That's ridiculous and only shows that as a stand-alone it's average and it needs the fairy tale to make it a classic. '"

 

-When I first watched the match, I knew the character's roles, and motivations, but had not seen any other matches from 96. I still loved it and thought it was great. After seeing the previous matches, it only further enriched my viewing experience. There is nothing wrong with knowledge, it only helps.

 

But it's obvious that your typing proof that it's best for some people to start off with the more straight ahead matches, to famalirize yourself with the style.

 

"I like this one, calling me a dumbass then you don't even know how to spell the site you want me to check out. "

 

-I may be a dumbass who can't spell, but at least I'm not so lazy I couldn't click and read one damn thread.

 

"I'm disappointed, these are supposed to be the extraordinary wrestlers who put over common moves"

 

-Its a strike exchange, look at it for what it is, rather than what you want it to be. It's just like an advanced version of trading chops for cying out loud, a battle of wills, that Kawada won. Further demonstraing that the night would belong to him.

 

"I also don't see one of them getting kicked in the face then deliver a volley of punches unphased. "

 

-Lets use a match most people tend to love as an example, let's say Flair/Steamboat Wrestlerwar 89. Flair chops the taste out of Steamboat's mouth in the corner, but Steamboat sucks it up, and mounts a comeback with chops of his own, backing Flair's ass down. Would you say that Steamboat no sold Flair's chops? It's the same damn thing as the brawling in 12/96, a battle of wills.

 

"Yea, keyword: run in and break it up. Not walk in and stand guard. In the matches where the ref can't get control, he needs to get control of 4 guys, not one guy who decided to come in and stand around. Also, that's a stupid question. I've just told you I saw two. "

 

-I don't understand why this spot bothers you so much, maybe because you never seen it done in America. I'm not 100% sure about the tag rules in All Japan, but when the ref orders the guy out, they obey. But than again this is pro wrestling, and I can't think of any tag match where the rules were consitently followed. They is always a four way brawl or double team.

 

"It's also logical to say that if your powerbomb was good then you wouldn't you have to do it 4 more times."

 

-Starting with the first Backdrop Driver, all the moves done to Misawa lead to him being pinned. So what, it takes Kawada three Powerbombs to put away Misawa, big deal. That's simply what it takes to beat Misawa, it's not overkill(that bullshit would come next year), it's just right.

 

"They aren't having sex for crying out loud with all this talk about 3 year partners and knowing each other's limits. It's just more of Taue being too revolutionary in tag matches for my plebian mind I guess. "

 

Who said anything about Kawada and Taue having sex? Damn, your one sick bastard.

 

Anyway there is only one instance, where Taue doesn't make the save after a big move. That is the first Dangerous German on Kawada, but one suplex was by no means a killer over finisher at that point.

 

 

Please return to your Rock-HHH matches. I think you made up your mind about which you thought was better long before you popped 12/6/96 into your vcr, and that is why you are praying, searching, hopping to find something wrong with 12/6/96.

 

And if seeing a couple of All Japan matches makes you so much smarter than us on the subject, than please take pity on us, and leave us to our delusions.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"Oh and Tim, you forget about 11/29/96 which leads to one of my fav. false finishes of all time in 12/96. If you haven't seen it, you should really go out of your way to watch it. 12/96 plays almost exactly off the ending to 11/96, same moves and everything, and I think it actually pops up around the same time too(20 minutes in or so). It deals with Taue's inablity into stop Misawa and Jun from double teaming Kawada."

 

I have it and love it.

 

Haven't watched it in a while so I was hesitant to put it down just for the fact that I wanted to show the tags with the Akiyama/Misawa storyline only. But the league match on 11/29 is spectacular. Tons of neat double teams that I haven't seen previous or after from those guys.

 

Tim

[Guest Tim Cooke]

I think the GAME is just trolling. Seen him do it in other folders here too.

 

His insistance that a match should stand alone and be good, as well as pointing out spelling instead of focusing on the topic also shows it.

 

Plus, he has no clue about AJPW pysch when it comes to the Misawa/Kawada powerbomb/ what will it take to beat this Misawa.

 

Enjoy those Rock/Crips classics.

 

Tim

[Guest TheGame2705]

Now I understand why some people think so lowly of those in this folder. I pointed out my thoughts on a match and everyone gets all catty.

 

His insistance that a match should stand alone and be good, as well as pointing out spelling instead of focusing on the topic also shows it.

 

Maybe if you read my post I mentioned just a few other things besides the spelling. It wasn't being a spelling nazi, it was pointing out hypocrisy.

 

I still don't see why I'm evil for saying that if a match is so good, it should be able to stand alone by itself. Look at the SD6 matches. They had tons of them and you don't need to watch all of them to get one. Look at Bret/Austin. You can watch any match from theirs and you won't need the story.

 

What it boils down to is that I wasn't trolling but pointing out what I thought on something. I guess it kinda stings when someone doesn't follow the crowd and like a big match.

 

If you like the style that's fine. Just don't act as if I'm the devil for saying I don't like some aspects of the match. I also said, if you read up, that I really liked Akiyama and at times Kawada. If I was trolling, I would have said "OMG I HATE THIS MATCH IT IS SO BAD SLANTED EYED PEOPLE CAN'T WORK," and not try and actually debate my points.

[Guest Dangerous Back Drop]

A) The SmackDown! 6 are lucky to have matches that qualify as "rather good" - no one worth listening to is calling any of them 'classics' or 'best matches ever.' Story plays a part in pushing something over the edge, from decent to good, good to great, great to classic. Of course, getting into 'story' and understanding why it enriches matches assumes that whoever's watching it 1) knows the backstory and 2) is erudite enough to know how to appreciate those kinds of things.

 

B) Don't you need 'story' - as in, angles, interviews, reasons for feuding - to know WHY the SD!6 are wrestling each other? Anyone in their right mind will tell you, "yes." They have to get the point of having a match for a reason.

 

C) Yes, you do need 'story' for the Bret/Austin matches as well - the same kinds of things one needs to understand Angle vs. Edge or Eddy vs. Edge.

 

So who's the hypocrite, exactly? Us for pointing out how badly you're interpreting the match, or you for pointing out blatantly obvious examples of story-driven matches to explain why some matches don't need story?

[Guest TheGame2705]

I've only watched a handful of matches from the SD!6 series and I've liked them all. I don't even know the full reason as to why those matches were started. I still liked them though and thought they were good. If I knew the story sure that would be cool but it wouldn't make me like the match anymore. Bret/Austin also had two excellent matches that you didn't need story to know why they were great.

 

I think of stories added to wrestling matches as just something cool to add onto the match. In no way should the story be the determining factor of if a match is good or not. Call it a classic sure, but don't call it an excellent match that's a classic too.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

I think of stories added to wrestling matches as just something cool to add onto the match. In no way should the story be the determining factor of if a match is good or not. Call it a classic sure, but don't call it an excellent match that's a classic too.

You cannot seperate the story from the match. If the match tells a great story, it is because of the great work of the participants. You can't tell a great story in the ring, with shitty wrestling, dude.

 

The story line of the match is not this invisible force floating around it, that you can choose to apply or unapply. The story is created and told by the actions of the men in the ring. Don't confuse angles with in ring storytelling.

 

12/6/96 is considered to be the greatest men's match because the selling, pacing, role playing, execution is not only excellent and top notch but all comes together to tell one of the greatest and most deepest stories in history. What you precieve to be flaws, seems to come more out of a failure to understand not only the style, but wrestling in general.

 

The matches only single flaw is the blown crouching spot, but even than, the match is so damn great, it doesn't hurt it one bit. Because flaw or not, there isn't another men's pro style match that comes close with the exception of maybe 6/95 or 6/3/94.

[Guest goodhelmet]

Because flaw or not, there isn't another men's pro style match that comes close with the exception of maybe 6/95 or 6/3/94.

.. and even with 6/3/94 or 6/9/95, knowing the backstory enriches a person's meaning of those matches.

 

with all 3 matches, if you had never seen another All Japan match, but can pay attention to the ringwork, every one of them stand alone as a great match... 6/9/95 especially.

 

the only thing you need is a basic understanding of each person's SIGNATURE (not finisher) moves and the way they work in the context of the match, all would be classics on those merits alone.

 

add the backstory for 6/3/94, knowing that kawada got his first pin on misawa on 6/9/95, or the coffin surfer and cooke explanations above for 12/96 and it enriches the experience but these matches are still great. maybe you just don't like japanese people?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I think the GAME is just trolling.  Seen him do it in other folders here too.

 

His insistance that a match should stand alone and be good, as well as pointing out spelling instead of focusing on the topic also shows it.

 

Plus, he has no clue about AJPW pysch when it comes to the Misawa/Kawada powerbomb/ what will it take to beat this Misawa.

 

Enjoy those Rock/Crips classics. 

 

Tim

I don't know about other folders, but I don't think he's trolling here. I don't agree with much of anything he's said, but he seems like he wants to discuss the matches. The pointing out spelling errors was just a response to being called a morron.

 

As for the stand alone stuff, I don't think that's so uncommon. A lot of current wrestling fans want stuff that will knock their socks off right off the bat, and when they hear all the talk of AJPW being the best wrestling ever, they go in expecting it to. It seems like no matter how many times you and every other AJ die-hard say "get used to the style first, check out these matches first, etc.," new fans will still get upset when one of the big classics doesn't hit them the way they want it to. At the end of the day, if they don't feel like listening to the the advice of others, why bother with them? It's their loss.

 

Anyway, all rambling aside, I don't think he's trolling. He's being stubborn and obnoxious, but I wouldn't call it trolling.

[Guest Goodear]

I personally don't understand why some people get so hyper defensive about their perferred style of wrestling. It's one thing to be like, "No sir, you are wrong" and another to be all "screw you chicken eating moron".

 

Personally, I don't particularly find All Japan to be to my taste after a few exposures to it. I can't see actively hunting down more to make it appear in context if I didn't like what I've already seen.

 

To be more precise, I'm also not so much a fan of All Japan's selling either. Now I see Coffin Surfer's comparison to Steamboat-Flair but disagree with his application of the example. When Flair and Steamboat would exchange chops, they would still both scream out in pain, writhe against the ropes, stagger for a moment and then fire back. It seemed to me that Misawa and (especially) Kawada would be for likely to just absorb blows and fire back immediately.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

You are probably right about him not trolling but his logic seems to be set in his head...that is a clue, albeit a small one, that shows me something.

 

Game, I ask you this.....please list your top 10 matches that you would rate highly.

 

Then maybe I will be able to see what you like in your wrestling.

 

tim