Question about best of 2001 compilation

[Guest J*ingus]

I've been looking to get me some recent puro, and highspots.com has a nice little four-tape collection.  Now I know that most of you say that someone should start with the earlier TV tapes and work their way forward one-by-one, yadda yadda, but I'm not rich and simply don't have a heckuva lot of money to spend on this, and this set goes for a mere $40 plus shipping.  So I wanted you guys' opinion on whether this compilation is a good enough "starter set" for contemporary Japanese wrestling.  

 

The match listings are:

 

1- Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Yugi Nagata (1/4/01)

2- Kensuke Sasaki vs. Masahiro Chono (1/4/01)

3- Toshiaki Kawada vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan  (1/4/01)

4- Kensuke Sasaki vs. Toshiaki Kawada (1/4/01)

5- Johnny Smith & Taiyo Kea vs. Masa Fuchi & Toshiaki Kawada (1/14/01)

6- Minoru Tanaka/Koji Kanemoto/Tatsuhito Takaiwa vs. Dr. Wagner Jr./El Samurai/Silver King (2/18/01)

7- Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Riki Choshu & Shinya Makabe (2/18/01)

8- IWGP Champion Kensuke Sasaki vs. Shinjiro Ohtani (2/18/01)

9- Naomichi Marafuji vs. Naohiro Hoshikawa (3/2/01)

10- Mitsuhara Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Yugi Nagata (3/2/01)

 

1- Toshiaki Kawada v. Keiji Muto (4/14/01)

2- Mitsuhara Misawa vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (4/15/01)

3- Naomichi Marafuji vs. Tatsuhito Takaiwa (4/18/01)

4- Mitsuhara Misawa & Rikioh Takeshi vs. Naoya Ogawa & Kazunari Murakami (4/18/01)

5- Satoshi Kojima vs. Keiji Muto (6/4/01)

6- Jushin Liger vs. Minoru Tanaka (6/4/01)

7- Masahito Kakihara vs. Minoru Tanaka (6/6/01)

8- Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima (6/6/01)

 

1- Keiji Muto vs. Hiroshi Hase (6/6/01)

2- Yuji Nagata vs. Kazuyuki Fujita (6/6/01)

3- Mitsuya Nagai & Masahito Kakihara vs. Shinya Makabe & Yugi Nagata (6/8/01)

4- Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Toshiaki Kawada (6/8/01)

5- Keiji Muto vs. Genichiro Tenryu (6/8/01)

6- Susumu Mochizuki/Yasushi Kanda/Darkness Dragon vs. Dragon Kid/Ryo Saito/Ricky Marvin (7/1/01)

7- Magnum Tokyo vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (7/1/01)

8- Steve Williams vs. Keiji Muto (7/14/01)

 

1- Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Michael Modest (7/27/01)

2- Jun Akiyama vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (7/27/01)

3- Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Satoshi Kojima (8/10/01)

4- Yuji Nagata vs. Keiji Muto (8/12/01)

5- Tiger Mask & Great Sasuke vs. Jado & Gedo (8/19/01)

6- Mitsuya Nagai & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (9/16/01)

7- Dragon Kid vs. Magnum Tokyo vs. Masaaki Mochizuki vs. CIMA vs. Darkness Dragon (9/30/01)

 

 

That's it.  It seems a bit heavy on the NJPW heavyweights, but it's the best that I've come across so far.  What do you guys think?

[Guest Tim Cooke]

It's a good choice for a recap of 2001.  Don't be expecting to be blown away by the match quality of most of the stuff because it just isn't the greatest.  But there are a lot of fun things on the tapes.  

 

The Marifuji stuff is worth checking out, as is the Mutoh/Tenyru match (for the not so obvious reasons).  The 8/19 Mpro match is perfectly good Mpro action and the Toryumon stuff is good to great, depending on what you have seen from Toryumon.

 

By the way, for 1998 and up, there really is no need to go after weekly TV because it is either trash, clipped to death, or a combination of both.

 

Tim

[Guest wolverine]

So I wanted you guys' opinion on whether this compilation is a good enough "starter set" for contemporary Japanese wrestling.  

No.

 

You're better off spending that $40 on All Japan TV from 1993.  It won't cost very much at all if you go to the right places.  

 

Just remember that in general, 1993=great, 2001=crap

[Guest TopSecretMan]

So I wanted you guys' opinion on whether this compilation is a good enough "starter set" for contemporary Japanese wrestling.  

No.

 

You're better off spending that $40 on All Japan TV from 1993.  It won't cost very much at all if you go to the right places.  

 

Just remember that in general, 1993=great, 2001=crap

Kind of ironic that you say that considering your icon.

[Guest wolverine]

Kind of ironic that you say that considering your icon.

I wasn't referring to Joshi in this post, since it wasn't mentioned at all in the matchlist.

[Guest J*ingus]

Well, I've already got a bit of AJPW '93, and while I think it could hold up in court as evidence that Kenta Kobashi is the true ruler of the world, I was wanting to get some more recent stuff from the past year or two.  And no Tim, I haven't seen any Toryumon, and I was kinda wondering why they and Michinoku Pro got a grand total of five matches between them on the comp.  Did they both have a bad year in 2001 or something?

[Guest Stuart]

By the way, for 1998 and up, there really is no need to go after weekly TV because it is either trash, clipped to death, or a combination of both.

Some of the New Japan TV I saw from 2001 (and I got every episode) was as good, if not better, than stuff from 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000 (I haven't seen much from 1996 besides comms though). The clipping was a problem, yeah, but it wasn't so bad earlier in the year. "FIGHTING SPIRIT 2001" was a choice tour, with matches like Kanemoto/Tanaka vs. Wagner/Silver King, Nakanishi/Iizuka/Nagata vs. Kawada/Fuchi/Araya, Muto vs. Iizuka, Tenzan/Kojima vs. Nakanishi/Nishimura, Tanaka/Samurai/Makabe vs. Delfin/Murahama/Tsubasa, Nakanishi/Iizuka/Nagata vs. Tenzan/Kojima/AKIRA, Muto/Otani vs. Sasaki/Koshinaka and some of the 2/18 PPV stuff all good to very good matches. And that's just one tour.

 

G1 suffered from major clipping though, although some of the after-shows had extended footage. I just got all the BS-Asahi stuff and thought it was all-around as good as 1998 G1.

[Guest wolverine]

"Well, I've already got a bit of AJPW '93"

 

Very good then.  I was led to believe that you were starting out with '01 stuff, which I thought was a mistake.

 

"while I think it could hold up in court as evidence that Kenta Kobashi is the true ruler of the world....."

 

Preach it!

 

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"And no Tim, I haven't seen any Toryumon, and I was kinda wondering why they and Michinoku Pro got a grand total of five matches between them on the comp.  Did they both have a bad year in 2001 or something?"

 

Mpro really hasn't put out anything great since 1997.  But from 1996-1997, every main event level match was a spectacle to see.  

 

As for Toryumon, every TV block is usually fun to watch.  They usually are either average or good, never poor but never great.  The thing with Toryumon is the "you see it once, you have seen it all" syndrone.  This is really the case in their six man tags which are all high spots and really fast, but they lack substance.  I'm not expecting AJPW 6 man tags out of Toryumon, but none of them come close to the *elite* 6, 8, and 10 man tags of Mpro's glory days in 1996-97.  

 

Their singles matches are okay but still nothing to get really excited about.  If you watch the CIMA v Tokyo singles match from the second TV block and watch something they do against each other recently, you won't notice much of a difference other than a few new moves and fewer blown spots.

 

So I guess those would be the reasons for the lack of Mpro and Toryumon representation on those tapes.  

 

Tim

[Guest HopeSpot]

There's really only 3 promotions that I actually enjoy now, AJPW, Torymoun, and Pride FC. New Japan has fallen to WCW 2000 levels and I've never been a Joshi fan. It's like no matter how stiff these women are there offense never looks credible to me, I respect them and they work thier asses off but womens wrestling is just a side show. No offense intended I just don't care for it as a style, some people dislike Lucha or Strong style I dislike Joshi.

[Guest wolverine]

There's really only 3 promotions that I actually enjoy now, AJPW, Torymoun, and Pride FC. New Japan has fallen to WCW 2000 levels and I've never been a Joshi fan. It's like no matter how stiff these women are there offense never looks credible to me, I respect them and they work thier asses off but womens wrestling is just a side show. No offense intended I just don't care for it as a style, some people dislike Lucha or Strong style I dislike Joshi.

 

What?  I'm the best wrestler in the world and you don't like me???

[Guest poopsicle316]

Their singles matches are okay but still nothing to get really excited about.  If you watch the CIMA v Tokyo singles match from the second TV block and watch something they do against each other recently, you won't notice much of a difference other than a few new moves and fewer blown spots.

 

I could not possibly disagree more.  Part of the beauty of Toryumon (to me, at least) is seeing the same group of workers evolve and improve over time.  I think TOKYO, Masaaki, Suwa, and CIMA especially have stepped up their matches in the last 6-12 months.  

 

And if you've seen anything from T2P, you have seen the future of matwork.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"I could not possibly disagree more.  Part of the beauty of Toryumon (to me, at least) is seeing the same group of workers evolve and improve over time."

 

Agreed, seeing any group evolve over time is a thing of beauty.  

 

"I think TOKYO, Masaaki, Suwa, and CIMA especially have stepped up their matches in the last 6-12 months."

 

I have seen them step up from their really spotty games, but nothing to make me want to see more.  Tokyo and Masaaki have stepped it up the most, though I think in the case of Tokyo it is the addition of more stiffness while Masaaki always had those really nice kicks and ways to work but was never really given a chance to shine until now.  Suwa is the same old Suwa (not that being the same old is bad in the case of him) and CIMA does everything the same as in the past.

 

Compare this to the real evolution of AJPW from the 1970's to the late 1990's or even NJPW throughout the 1980's till 1999.  Toryumon just doesn't bring those same elements to the table as most of their matches lack any real difference.

 

If you want to compare Toryumon's growth to a similiar style, analyze Mpro from 1996-7 and see how they grew from 1993 and came out so high in 1996/97.  Granted, Toryumon is only 3 years old, but the promise that Taka, Sasuke, Naniwa, Togo, etc showed in 1995 (Mpro's 3rd year in exsistance) is at a level so much higher than Toryumon guys show now.  

 

"And if you've seen anything from T2P, you have seen the future of matwork."

 

Agreed.  And these guys are only rookies.  If they can learn how to bring the crowd into the matches, they will be set.  It was refreshing to see matches that didn't bring in mindless highspots for the sake of them, but with the killer matwork that makes perfect sense.

 

Tim