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Guest Grand Slam

Stip Matches

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Guest Grand Slam

So, I did a little checking on the CC board, going back to some of the things that were being discussed about the time that Stubby was, well, asked to vacate the building so to speak, and I found a list of things people were asking for. One of them was more stip matches. People were bored writing one on one singles matches week in and week out.

 

Flash forward a few months, and now people are coming out of the woodwork that there are way too many stips on the shows, to the extent that I have a PM in my box from a SWF worker saying what stip matches he does and does not want to be booked in.

 

Now, I know I do a lot of stips in my cards because I like them and I remember when I was writing that I enjoyed the challenge of writing a stip match. But is there really this groundswell of anti-stip sentiment out there? Do most people really look over the card and comment on how many "stupid" and "asinine" stips there are? You guys can't have it both ways. Either we have stips or we don't. Myself, I prefer to have them.

 

So here is the question... how do people feel about stip matches? Tell us now, and let's be done with the matter because I for one am a little tired of having every card I post called names because I put in a stip match or two.

 

This leads into another discussion we need to have about the balance between workers controlling their own destiny and CC being able to book effective cards, but let's leave that alone for now. Stick to the topic here, and no name-calling please. If this gets too far off topic or anyone starts a flame war, I will start deleting things.

 

This needs to be a civil, honest discussion over something that will affect the future of the Fed.

 

Oh, one more thing, remember... this is for fun. Let's keep that in mind, eh?

 

- "Grand Slam" Mark Stevens

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Guest Kibagami

Well, I personally detest the majority of stip matches (with a few exceptions), but that's simply because I suck at writing them (with a few exceptions). As far as the fed goes, it's rare that I see an SWF card and think there's too many stips -- it's only when we start using some of the crazier JL stipulations that I have a problem with it. That's not to say that the JL bookers are doing a bad job; those sorts of matches can be fun to write, and they work for the JLers in the majority, at least from what I understand. I just don't feel like something so 'out there' really has a place in the SWF.

 

So, as long as the card's not predominantly stip matches and none of the matches involve vodka, fire, ball pits or any sort of explosives, I think there's no real problem to speak of.

 

K.

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Guest Coffin Surfer

Obviously, I'm not a stip man myself. I like to keep things simple, besides the possibilites of things you can do in a regular match are more endless than what you can do in a stip match, or at least that's how I see it.

 

I do understand that some or maybe a lot of the writers might like stip matches, and or just feel indifferent towards them, and that is there opinion and I respect it.

 

There are some stip matches I have nothing against: 6 MAN TAGS! 2/3 falls, Iron Man, No Escape Cage matches, Hardcore/No DQ, Ladder matches, War Games, or even the Clusterfuck(which I had a lot of fun writing until I ran out of time).

 

But in my case, personally I would prefer to save those matches for special occasions such as:

 

1. Have a stip to meet the intrests of both parties in the fued. In my Annie fued she specialized in Hardcore stuff, so since our first match was normal, I gave her a rematch with Hardcore rules.

 

2. A way to keep things interesting in a long fued, or in a really hate fueled fued, blow off match...etc., you know the drill. Like when I had a series of normal matches against Francis, and our last match to end it was an Iron Man.

 

3. The stip fits angle or storyline wise and makes sense. My ladder match against J.D. for the vacant title, or back in the JL my cage match with Frost, since it makes since that he would want me in the cage after I beat up his girlfriend.

 

In short, I just don't like stips for the sake of stips. I think they sould be kept special, but this is just me, and how I would prefer to be booked.

 

Stip Matches I would prefer to not write:

 

Triple Threat-ugh, I think these matches blow in real life and I would prefer not to write them.

 

First Blood-You got two guys beating each other until one bleeds, than the match just ends with no ending.

 

Submission Matches-Really limits what you can do considerably, and there are few characters that can pull it off properly. Tom and J.D.'s shoot style mat work and flash submissions come to mind.

 

Special Guest Ref-Too cliche, predictable, and annoying to write. Distracts from the match.

 

Tornado Tag Matches-Sometimes they serve thier purpose well, but I think they take away alot of the powerful elements that make tag matches so great.

 

Escape Cage Matches-"I hate you so much that I'm gonna race you to the top of a cage."

 

Bizzare Stips(handcuffs, tower of doom, bomb shelters, mall brawls, wrestling in the back of a speeding truck, stuff on poles, you get the idea.)

 

Handicap-I don't give a rat's ass about a face overcoming the odds.

 

I guess that cover everything.

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Guest Ace309

It sounds to me like we've had too much of a good thing. Personally, I don't write a lot of stip matches, and I don't mind that. It's a weakness of mine as a writer. I'm essentially a straight mat-based writer because that's how my mind processes one-on-one combat, and so I'm more comfortable in a straight singles or submission-type match.

 

But I wouldn't mind being booked into more stip matches.

 

I'm never concerned about having too many stipulations on a card, as long as the stipulations fit logically into where they're placed. You can throw pretty much anyone into a hardcore-style match now, because that's an accepted variant nowadays. It's considered almost as normal as a regular match. Other than that, I hate to see people randomly booked into stip matches if they're not in a feud or otherwise interacting.

 

The exception would be something in the low card along the lines of the Escape from Alcatraz match, where you throw some of the lower-midcarders into a location-specific stip that probably won't be seen again for a long time.

 

If there's some reason for the guys to be together, stips are wonderful, as long as they're logical. Here I'm glaring at the infamous Stubby PPV where he booked Danny and Xero in a tag title Dumpster match.

 

So, in conclusion, I have a one rule with a lot of contingencies. I hope this post makes sense to someone else.

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Guest Dace59

I think I'm not gonna say much different, but I should add it so it gives weight to the views already give.

 

Matches that Danny litsed, where you can still do all the stuff you can in a straight up much, but opens up a few options for spots and psych.

 

Extreme matches are all well when you ask for them, and for big ppv/fued blow of matches, but that's what it should be left to. Like Dace vs Spike - DIAB.

 

As much as I love chessy over the top violence of real life Death Matches, and the chance to write hardcore, I don't want to do it all the time.

I'm mainly a technical guy, and I will get back to that. Sure, I', the Hardcore Champ, I want to be, it's fun. But I also want to be able to move on when I'm ready.

 

 

The really strange/comedy stuff should be left for when guys want a break or a laught.

 

Ones that force you to go against logic and reason, like Escape Cage matches, or First Blood really should be left alone.

 

So, to sum up, for me:

Less stips, and most stips should be simple stuff, where you still have the ring, the ropes, and have to keep it pretty much in the ring. He more extreme, there rare it should be.

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Guest Tod deKindes

I don't mind them, but I'll prefer a good singles match any day.

 

Stips are all right as long as you don't abuse them. They're nice once in a while, though.

 

Tod "introduced ya'll to the No Gravity Match" deKindes

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Guest Grand Slam

Some Responses:

 

Silent: I agree. The goffier stips have very little place (in general, there are always exceptions) in the "more serious" SWF. However, if two guys want a goofy stip or it really makes sense in the story, I have no problem booking one.

 

Tom: Sometimes I use a "normal" stip (hardcore, no-DQ, the kind of stuff you see on free TV) for two reasons. Continue a feud and maybe kick start one between two guys with nothing happening. Other than that, I agree.

 

Danny: Your reasoning behind when to use stip matches is sound. Basically, they are a a great way to make a match we have all read a hundred times seem fresher and the big "PPV only" type stips for blow-offs on the big shows.

 

As far as your list...

Triple Threat- You and I will always disagree on this match. I love triple threats (and fatal four-ways) and I think they serve a good and useful purpose. I don't think they need to happen every show, and I know how frustrating they can be to write at times. However, in my book they aren't going anywhere.

 

First Blood- The basic purpose of this match is to get two guys to beat the hell out of each other. I think it is best used as it was here recently, as a punishment match to soften someone up. I agree that the finish is usually anti-climactic and that these need to be pretty rare.

 

Submission Matches- I love submission matches for certain characters. I have always enjoyed the "submission master v. non-master (power guy / high-flier)" story. This is best used as a showcase match for someone trying to get a submission finisher over.

 

Special Guest Ref- Here is one case where I think a stip has been used too much in recent times. This can be a great "sports entertainment" match that moves a story along.

 

Tornado Tag Matches- OK, I'll admit I have a huge soft spot for this match. I like chaos in the ring if it is well done. I always enjoyed writing these matches, but I can see why people don't like them. I'll keep these rare.

 

Escape Cage Matches- I don't know why, but escape rules always made sense to me. Two men go into a cage, first one out wins. Makes sense to me, kind of a survival thing. One thing I can't stand is the mish-mash of rules in cage matches. They should either be escape or pinfall / submission, one way or the other.

 

Bizzare Stips(handcuffs, tower of doom, bomb shelters, mall brawls, wrestling in the back of a speeding truck, stuff on poles, you get the idea.) - In general, these are best left for very specific occasions. People who want something comedic for their character or on a show where two guys are willing to do something silly to change the mood of the show or provide a little breather. Other than that... eh...

 

Handicap- Again, I think this can be used right but we use it a little too much. Another good "sports entertainment" match to advance a story.

 

6 MAN TAGS! - Good stip, but we always get complaints that they are hard to write. I love them though, and I think we all know how Edwin feels about them.

 

2/3 falls - Great stip, but best left for a PPV blow off match IMHO.

 

Iron Man - Again, great stip best left for PPV.

 

No Escape Cage matches - Good stuff here!

 

Hardcore/No DQ - Almost a standard match these days. Hardcore and DQ need to mean something and now that we have some truly HC guys in the Fed, I think they will again.

 

Ladder matches - Good used rarely, otherwise they get to be a "regular stip" and they should be spectacular.

 

War Games - Amazing stip, but best used once every other year or so.

 

Clusterfuck- Match rules!!! But, more than once a year would kill the "specialness".

 

Keep talking people! This is good!!

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Guest Dace59

About Escape cage matches.

 

Low Blow, Big move, walk across ring, walk out door, win.

 

That's why they dont make sense. That's what you'd do, and do from the get go.

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Guest Grand Slam

If this were real Dace, I would agree with you. But this isn't shoot fighting. Don't you think there is something your opponent would do to stop the low blow? Sure.

 

Besides, the point of a cage match isn't to see how fast you can win, but that the guys in it actually want to kick the crap out of each other. Besides, the escape works great if you are dealing with a classic, cowardly heel, which we have a distinct lack of around here (always have).

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Guest HollywoodSpikeJenkins

I love stip matches, especially the ones where I get to really bring out the HSJ character the way I see him (getting his ass kicked for the most part), but the really goofy ones, I don't even want to write.

 

 

 

 

One that comes to mind, was the Triple Threat Ball Crawl, that I believe Sydney Sky came up with during a LDP show. I no showed because I found that stipulation ridiculous, even though it was suppose to be a punishment.

 

 

And I was just thinking about the JL show that will go up tonight. There are what, 3 or 4 stip matches on a 6 or 7 card show? I think we really need to start getting back into booking mostly singles matches, but every now and then, throw in a stip at people. Maybe 1 or 2 per show.

 

 

But that's just me.

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Guest kelloggs

Escape cage matches should be relegated to stituations like the Bret/Owen Summerslam(? not sure if this is the event) match. It can give a match a sense of desperation that... well I can't quite express my feelings on the stip, but if you watched that Hart vs Hart cage match you should understand where I'm going with this.

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Stips can be fun, but as far as the triple threats; my last 3 singles matches have been three ways.

 

Also someone should really check out the characters before just simply booking something. Now, Edwin is great, but I hate HC matches. There is simply no point IMHO, and my character is not really a hardcore charater, yet I have been booked in several of them. :(

 

Maybe I'm just supose to find a way to make the character fit, I dunno. To me the simple HC stip is overused, and boring. One chair shot, and your done for. I wish the garbage can wrestling would find its way out the door.

 

Escape Cage Matches - I don't get the Trinty Hate Protest against these matches. They are plenty of fun, and make tons of sense. It's a "Who can claw their way out of the cage alive." not big move, I'm out the door.

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Guest Goodear

Weighing in like Judge at a buffet...

 

It's not so much stipulations I have a problem with as I do too many stipulation matches in a row. I don't have issue with doing most things once in a while, but going from a Tornado tag, to a ladder match, to a tornado six man (which is why Danny emphasized the tag element) is too much too fast. A regular match is almost a breather for me since I can easily put those together in my head and get a nice run of speed going. But I need those breathers, or I'll get burnt out. Anyway on to specifics...

 

1) Triple Threats - They're okay in that I don't have a severe problem with them, but the participants need to be chosen up a little differently in my view then they have been recently. Picking two stable mates to put in there with a third guy is just a plain mess to write since you can't just have three guys taking it to each other logically.

 

2) Go get something matches - Whether you want to call it a Mall Brawl or an Escape from Alcatraz match, I can't see the point in having multipule people running to get to a certain point serving as the ending of the match. It's one thing in an enclosed space like a cage... its something else when you're dealing with miles of road to work with. Although the Remember the Alamo match worked a whole lot better since the people involved actually had a reason to fight since it would end in a pinfall.

 

3) Handicapped matches suck. I'm sorry, but I've been on the beaters position a number of times now and they always end up being counterproductive. It was like I was SJL Champion ... but still needed a partner's help to beat someone? Why not just call it "the Team wins or the so totally suck that we should all laugh at them"

 

Nothing else really bothers me other than "Wrestler 1 must use a Street Fighter attack to knock off the other guys hat while he tries to score a perfect on Dance Dance Revolution" matches that make no sense whatsoever and are only funny to the guys who booked the thing. Those aren't any fun to write.

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Guest WrestlingDeacon

I'll fess up, I'm the guy that sent Grand Slam and the other bookers a pm clearing detailing what the Frost character will and won't be a part of. Simply, this is fun for me and if I get booked in something I don't want to be a part of, I'm not having fun and I'll no-show or not write the best match possible. I think most people feel this way and I would encourage others to make sure the bookers clearly know what matches and situations you enjoy and which ones you don't. If this is a fed where we dictate our own destiny, then we should do that. I applaude the new CC's efforts on this front and thank Mark for starting this thread.

 

My views are pretty close to Danny's. I loathe escape rules cage matches and triple threats/four ways although I seem to write those pretty well. I am of a mind that stip matches should mostly be used for ppv's and feud blow offs although lighter stips, like the standard hardcore, no dq and such, are good to break up a regular show and add some zeal, while still adhereing to logic and character continuity.

 

I believe the direction of the fed and the writers we now have are more geared to a straight up Ring of Honor style project than the more sports entertainment based WWE. The CC need to recognize this and book accordingly. Of course, this could turn a 180 within three months, but that's what keeps the fed fresh and evolving.

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Guest realitycheck

Where to start...

 

First, I don't think there's really ever been a problem with "too many stip matches on one card." The WF usually has 2-4 on each show, and they're all logically added. Also, I have never seen a problem regarding outlandish gimmicks in the WF.

 

In the JL, it's another matter. We're noted for booking havy-handedly on occasion. Part of it is because the bookers test new, crazy match stips and ideas on the JL'ers. That might not be totally fair on them, but it's really the only way to see if a certian match stip is good/interesting/writeable enough to be used again. Part of it is because, like Frost mentioned, we adjusted the booking for the time period. When Dace/Janus/Va'aiga/Spike/MVS were on top of the JL, they worked programs of either an extremely hardcore, or extremely technical nature. Strangler, myself and Pete adjusted the booking accordingly, and whenever Crowe goes up, being the last guy in the JL to really write the horrorcore style, the JL's direction will be tweaked again.

 

Of course, that's only half the reason. The JL has always been stip-heavy, because of the way JL PPV's are staggered out. Every show has to have some "aura" to it, or things would just get boring, IMO.

 

Although, I'm glad some of the guys are saying they'd prefer more singles matches. 'Cause if that's the case, I can go ahead and ask Thoth and Pete to keep it simple in the future.

 

As for myself? I liked stip matches, personally. Though like the general concencus, I thought triple-threats, handicap matches and the escape cage stipulation were useless. Although, unlike just about everyone else, I didn't have a problem with any of the dumb gimmick matches, (Probably because I'm good at writing comedy *shrug) and I also don't mind having big stips get used on regular shows every now and then. Saving everything for PPV's, especially with the 6 week wait between them, just doesn't make much sense. I'm not saying that having a gigantic stip on all the shows is a good thing, obviously, but every now and then, you need a Storm or something that feels really important. After all, we're our own audience, and we're not making any money off our PPV's anyway.

 

-Z

And also, as a guy who was part of the original match, I don't ever want to see another War Games again, ever. Just... no.

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Guest KingOfOldSchool

I don't like goofy, out there stips. And while people do have fun writing these stips, I much prefer a simple, straight up singles match. Due in part that I'm here to write wrestling, mostly inside a ring, not hide and go seek in the mall while drinking a shot of vodka every three minutes before hopping on the DDR machine. Also because I'm not good at writing comedy, so eh.

 

As far as multi man (triple threat, four way) matches go, too many of them, here and in the 'real world', seem hapazardly thrown together. Though they can be -okay- if contrived and overly difficult spots are taken out altogether.

 

And just say no to handicap matches. They don't do any good for any of the competitors involved.

 

I'm fine with just about every other "traditional" stip though. So long as the more dangerous and taxing ones fit well in the context of the feud.

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Guest Dace59

Mark, ok, fair enought about the Cage Matches, but escape rules just does nothing for me.

 

The ends tend to be boring. Janus has done a very nice one, with a Dragon Suplex off the Cage, he lands on feet, opp on neck, he wins. That's about it.

 

For me, unless a match is clearly outlandish, as close as it can to be being real, the better. Not that close of course, you we'd be winning matches with punches, but you get my idea.

 

I guess it comes down to the fact we all have different opions about the different matches.

 

For the JL stuff, yer, I didn't mind some of the crazy stuff, it gives everyone a chance to try out all the styles without it mattering too much in the long run.

 

If the JL is gonna leave the Hardcore style, send it ROH way I'd say.

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Personally, I like gimmick matches. Fun to write, forces you to thin kin new, creative ways, etc. Take a cage, for example. There are so many different types of spots that can be set up using those walls that you can't do in a singles match. Same goes for a triple threat. The most recent one I had was against Johnny and MVS, which ended in me DVDing Mike onto JD, then pinning Johnny. We're now using that ending as a means to build a feud.

 

AS far as I'm concerned, book me in anything reasonable. Hell in a Cell, Ladder, Submission, Three Degrees of Hell (at least I tihnk that's the name for multi-gimmik 2/3 falls matches). Anything outside of a bra and panties, dildo on a pole or pin the tail on the ref match is good here.

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Mark, ok, fair enought about the Cage Matches, but escape rules just does nothing for me.

 

The ends tend to be boring. Janus has done a very nice one, with a Dragon Suplex off the Cage, he lands on feet, opp on neck, he wins. That's about it.

Thanks for the 'nice' comment, Dace. :)

 

On the story of stip matches, I don't mind them as a whole. There are ones that I have a problem with, though. Extremely outlandish matches that do absolutely nothing for a character's story / feud tend to be out of place, unless of course those in question ask for it. Or if it's something like in the JL - I liked the Mall Brawl. ;)

 

One match I loathe personally is the triple-thread / fatal four-way situation. I can so clearly remember Danny ripping my HCG win into shreds, and he did so for good reason. It's simple - I can't -write- multi-mans. I like to keep the focus on just two people, and maybe a run-in here and there. The only exception would be tag matches, where I'd have help writing.

 

Escape cage matches as mentioned earlier, sometimes I hate the escape rule, but in my match against Beezel it kinda made sense that he'd keep trying to escape. If it's two bigger guys, like my match with Frost, we had the mesh on the top of the cage so it was no-escape. That was cool.

 

So in summation, good, reasonable stips in moderation = good. Stips for the sake of stips = bad.

 

And Atlas, it's "Three Stages of Hell" ;)

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Guest Dace59

You know what I mean bu Nice man. Janus seems so at home in cage matches.

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Guest Powerplay

Throwing my opinon like I'm going to throw Ejiro "Hey, I'm only 189 pounds, I'm a Lawn Dart!" Fasaki out of the ring...

 

Honestly I'm pretty gimmick friendly. I don't mind one or two being thrown in on a card every now and then to liven' things up, as long as you can find a reason behind it. Now my opinions on a few of the matches from above.

 

"Escape Rules" Cage Matches: I really don't see the big problems with these matches. Danny argues "I hate you so much I'm going to get out of this cage", but I see it differently. The guys are 1) Trying to hurt the other guy as much as possible and 2) Trying to win the match. Escape rules eliminates the cheapness of roll-ups and allows for a much more brutal match. Why? Because after they've beaten each other to all hell they have to muster enough strength to get out of the cage before the other guy comes to. The guys aren't going to leave until they've had their fill, and then they think about getting out. Imho, it's a lot easier to get a tapout or a pinfall than put a guy down long enough for you to climb up and out of a cage with your battered and beaten body. In response to Dace: In reality, pretty much every No-DQ match should end the same way. Low blow, finisher, 1-2-3 done. I think that's a moot point, really.

 

Triple threats: As long as two people aren't stablemates it works. Otherwise you just get big conflicts.

 

Submission matches: I really don't have a problem with these matches, but I'm sure other characters do. I personally think it works real well when inserted logically to a good feud, but really nowhere else.

 

TLCs: No one has brought this one up, but I liked mine save for one fact: It's really hard to do one with less than 4 teams. I think that 4 teams balances everything out and they should certainly be rare occasions.

 

Hide and Seek Matches: I personally only think they work where the area is small enough where the participants will HAVE to get in the other's way. A great example of this is JD vs. Ash at the Brawling Titty or whatever the bar was called. It was small enough that JD and Ash just couldn't run off and not meet again. They HAD to interact because they were that close to each other and there was such a small search area. Mall Brawl works because you not only have to find it, but you have to take it somewhere. Therefore people will want to stop you to 1) Make sure you won't stop them when they get the thing and 2) To stop you from getting the thing if you have it. At any rate, Hide and Seek style matchse should be regulated to where the opponents have to react (Which is certainly helped by more opponents as well).

 

About the JL: I'm all in favor of having the JL getting many stip matches. Why? Because it gives the JLers experience in some of the harder matches to write with and such. Before I came to the WF I had about, oh, 5 different stips under my belt: No-DQ, Inferno, the weird 4 way double elimination, 5 Wounds, and a modified escape rules cage match. That's it. I had a triple threat as well, but that's it. Not one Hardcore, Tag, Ladder, Submission, or stuff like that. These kids need to learn how to write these matches so they aren't at an incredible disadvantage when they get bumped and get one.

 

Secondly, the JL is a great testing ground of new and innovative stips. Not much in the JL really matters; you win, you lose, but it's all erased when you get bumped pretty much. It's all fun and games. The WF is far more serious and loses can seriously screw people up. Honestly, I think WC/JD vs. JM, 5 wounds in the JL would be a better place to test it than in the WF.

 

Zed stated another one of the good reasons; that each JL show has to feel important because PPVs are generally staggered far apart.

 

And that's all until I can think of something else to say.

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Guest Mr. Slim Citrus

Being essentially a niche writer, I find myself partial to Garbage/Hardcore/No DQ matches, as they give me the freedom to write outrageous spot fests, which is clearly what I'm best at. I like ladder matches for the same reason. I more or less mirror Danny's sentiments on the other types of stip matches.

 

The one stip match that I've never been a part of that I would love to be in is a "No Gravity" match. I've been marking hard for the concept since the first time I saw it on a JL card. You guys need to bump some cruisers, or something. ;)

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Guest Edwin MacPhisto

One more third weighing in...

 

I like most stips, as long as they're well thought out. I liked that I was able to slot Wildchild and Atlas into a No-DQ match for this week--part of that was due to Atlas' promo wherein he basically talked some trash about Wildchild and made him vs. Catch 22 a bit of an angle. Even that sort of progression lets us book a simple stip more comfortably.

 

I'll also say that I don't personally like "triple threat" matches too much. I could write them well apparently, but they were still troublesome, just because you can only do double-teams and "one guy gets knocked out for a bit" for so long. So you probably won't see too many triple threats from me.

 

You probably will see 3-man elimination matches, though, as I booked on Storm. They're one of my favorites, because in them you get all the potential benefits of a triple threat--three wrestlers all involved with each other in some way, opportunities for "face-in-peril," superman comeback, and heel double-teams in a form different from the tag match--without wearing it too thin, since it becomes a straight singles match once one guy is eliminated. I've always been a huge fan of these, and three of my favorites matches I've ever written--Edwin/Axis/Xstasy, Edwin/Thugg/Bo, and Edwin/Wilson/Thoth--worked on this format.

 

Feedback is great, and you should all keep it coming. Daunting as it might seem, I'm going to try to take note of what you all like and do my best to book comfortably. Sometimes you might get a stip you don't like, but know that in that event, some gentle feedback can probably get you something you really do like next time around.

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Guest 5_moves_of_doom

Stip matches usually act as a breath of fresh air to me, and I absolutely LOVE them. I really sort of do support the whole "testing stips in the JL" theory, simply because it's a way to see if certain things work, and hey, it's the JL; over-the-top stuff is okay down there.

 

Kind of tired right now so I can't contribute a lengthy reply of any sort, but I really do like stips. Certain ones are there solely to move a feud a long if necessary, and I think that they shouldn't be booked unless requested (we're talking guest-referee and handicapped matches here,) but eh. Also, the really big ones, like HIAC or Ironman or even ladder matches, should be saved for PPV's or blowoff matches or whatever, simply because featuring them in a completely normal match for the sole purpose of adding some spark to an otherwise bland matchup cheapens their effect over time...

 

Oh, and we need more Bomb Shelter matches.

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Guest TheBostonStrangler

When I booked the JL, I had a pretty standard formula. Lots of singles matches, a hardcore/no-DQ match, a weird stip, and maybe something else if the occasion called for it. Some of my stips were weird, but when I had complaints, I took them into consideration, and I tried not to book those people in them. I'm still convinced that matches like Lost at Sea and the Times Square Street Fight were entertaining and a breath of fresh air that the fed needs from time to time.

 

In the WF, I held back on the stips a lot more. I had no problem throwing together three/four man matches (I always found them fun), and there was a decent amount of Hardcore varients, but for the most part, I toned it down.

 

Overall, I enjoy the stips, and having been a member of CC, I understand how important it is for people to be willing to roll with the punches. I had fun doing CC work, but when there were a gazillion requests and limitations on what I could do with people, it became a lot less fun. Just like how some people said that "bad" stip matches made them not want to write, people who whined at everything besides singles matches made me not want to book. Thankfully, those occasions were few and far between, and most people were very good about it. So if you have a problem with stip matches, let CC know about it, but if you do end up in one, realize that it's probably not an intentional slight, and that the people up there try not to put you in those matches.

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Guest Crowe

I prefer writing stipulation matches over straight singles matches. I find them easier to write for some reason. Eh, I haven't got anything else to say really... you book me in a match and I'll write it.

 

Stipulation matches I have under my belt...

 

Battle Royal

Tag Team Tables

Hardcore

Ball Crawl

Smirnoff Match

Border Run Match

Perfect Challenge

Triple Threat

3 Minute Elimination Triple Threat

2/3 Falls

Chairshot Match

Hell In A Cell

Vodka Shot Match

Glass Ceiling Match

 

\m/

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I'll also say that I don't personally like "triple threat" matches too much. I could write them well apparently, but they were still troublesome, just because you can only do double-teams and "one guy gets knocked out for a bit" for so long. So you probably won't see too many triple threats from me.

 

You probably will see 3-man elimination matches, though, as I booked on Storm. They're one of my favorites, because in them you get all the potential benefits of a triple threat--three wrestlers all involved with each other in some way, opportunities for "face-in-peril," superman comeback, and heel double-teams in a form different from the tag match--without wearing it too thin, since it becomes a straight singles match once one guy is eliminated. I've always been a huge fan of these, and three of my favorites matches I've ever written--Edwin/Axis/Xstasy, Edwin/Thugg/Bo, and Edwin/Wilson/Thoth--worked on this format.

Which would work wonderfully with the match you booked if there was at least one heel involved. I think I kind of like the balance of at least one person of the opposite deposition involved in a three way, instead three of a kind. It would make it flow easier, I think. Maybe it's just me.

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Guest Insanityman

Actually, I love stips... only two have been so radical that I've literally been stumped. If you were there when I was struggling to write Hell in an Igloo (Renegade knows what it was like) I was ready to flip a shit... I was trying to rush so I could leave but I got nothing:

 

"Yeah, ooohh, idea!"

 

Renegade would make some comment.

 

Twenty minutes later, "Fuck, I got nothing."

 

The point of that was it can't be TOO out there, but I have yet to truly dislike any one stip. It adds to creativity, flavor, and overall fun to the fed. Besides, I love the SJL, 'cause it's fun and testing grounds. Who cares about win/losses down here anyway? I love hardcore matches, ladder matches, and any new type of stip (fresh ideas, etc)... like I said earlier, not too many I dislike.

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Guest Beingz0wningj00

Personally I like some fun stips for the regular shows and some of the more serious ones for PPV, you know, once in a while type deal, to keep the gimmick over.

 

Some fun stuff is triplethreats, hardcore, heck battle royals, tables, hit your finisher, sometimes even a ladder match for the TV shows. Many more of course. The basic idea, the matches where there is competition, but nothing too personal.

 

 

Then you have matches that should be over, like Survivor type matches, Submission, cage/cells, TLC... matches where the opponents are expected to beat the hell out of each other. Ironman, First Blood... here's the stuff saved for PPV. Title matches should be booked around these at times.

 

 

That's my thought/

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I would love to do a Survivor Series, or hell even a King of the Ring. We need stuff like that every now and then I think.

 

If you guys can do Wargames, I think we can do a KOTR.

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