Canada changes...

[Guest Mole]

From AOL:

 

OTTAWA, (May 27) - The Canadian government overrode objections from the United States and police groups on Tuesday and introduced legislation to end criminal penalties for the possession of small amounts of marijuana.

 

Under the bill, people caught with 15 grams (half an ounce, or enough for about 15 to 30 joints) or less of cannabis would only be fined, and criminal penalties would be reduced on those growing up to 25 marijuana plants.

 

"We have to ask ourselves as a society, does it make sense that a person who makes a bad choice can receive the lasting burden of a criminal conviction?" asked Justice Minister Martin Cauchon.

 

"A criminal conviction can limit career opportunities and make travel to other countries difficult. These factors, coupled with the possibility of a jail sentence, amount to sanctions that are disproportionate."

 

He said police would have more resources to go after large growers, flourishing especially in British Columbia and Quebec, and maximum penalties would be increased for big growers.

 

But Canadian Police Association Executive Officer David Griffin said police would have nowhere near enough resources to address the rising supply and said with no minimum sentences the courts would still be able to let growers off lightly.

 

"What we are looking for is to send a clear message to Canada's young people that drugs are harmful, that drugs and driving kill and that people who sell drugs to kids will go to jail," Griffin said.

 

"We asked for resources. We asked for support, and what we received instead was a hastily put-together package that's held together by Band-aids and duct tape."

 

U.S. anti-drug czar John Walters has warned that this law could force a clampdown at the U.S. border and thus potentially hurt the world's richest trading relationship.

 

"What assurances can this government give us that its pet project on marijuana isn't going to jeopardize legitimate trade with the United States?" demanded Stephen Harper, leader of the Canadian Alliance, Parliament's largest party.

 

"Canada is a different place with different values," Cauchon shot back.

 

A dozen U.S. states actually already have decriminalized the possession of small amounts. California, for example, provides for a fine of $100 for one ounce (28.5 grams). Ohio lets people with as much as 100 grams off with a $100 fine.

 

Canada would levy a C$150 ($110) fine on adults and C$100 for youth for up to 15 grams.

 

For 15 to 30 grams, the Canadian bill would give police the discretion of handing out a fine or pressing for a summary conviction which, as at present, could result in up to six months in jail -- though that is rarely imposed now.

 

The Canadian Alliance's Randy White said he had been prepared to support decriminalization of 5 grams, but he said 15 grams to 30 grams would raise questions of the person's intent. "If you're talking about someone carrying 50 to 60 joints with them, I'd hardly call that minor personal possession," he said.

 

Though Prime Minister Jean Chretien's Liberals have a comfortable majority in the House of Commons, the bill's passage is not in fact assured.

 

Cauchon hopes it will pass by the end of the year. But the government's legislative agenda is complicated by the active race to replace Chretien as prime minister, particularly given the animosity between him and front-runner Paul Martin.

 

In September the Liberals elect delegates to the party's November leadership convention. Ottawa is rife with speculation that the Parliament will simply grind to a halt in the autumn should Martin take an unassailable lead of delegates.

 

Some of Martin's backers are among the loudest opponents of the marijuana bill.

 

US should learn from this.

[Guest Galactic Gigolo]

: : moves to Canada : :

 

I applaud them for this decision, and not letting the US bully them around.

[Guest NoCalMike]

: : moves to Canada : :

 

I applaud them for this decision, and not letting the US bully them around.

Finally. I only hope America will follow Canada's lead in this effort. Oh and I didn't know that you could have 28 grams in CA and get off with a fine......NICE~!

[Guest Blacklight Angel]

Hostess should probably move their operations to Quebec.

 

They'd make a killing... well, before the ridiculous Canadian taxes kicked in.

[Guest Vyce]

More proof at how fucked up Canada is.

 

This is going to cause us (that is, AMERICANS) nothing but grief.

[Guest NoCalMike]

More proof at how fucked up Canada is.

 

This is going to cause us (that is, AMERICANS) nothing but grief.

are you joking? If not, could you elaborate?

[Guest Blacklight Angel]

I find this the most interesting:

 

He said police would have more resources to go after large growers, flourishing especially in British Columbia and Quebec, and maximum penalties would be increased for big growers.

 

What defines a big grower against a small grower? This sounds like subjective enforcement of the law to me.

 

It gets better:

 

The Canadian Alliance's Randy White said he had been prepared to support decriminalization of 5 grams, but he said 15 grams to 30 grams would raise questions of the person's intent. "If you're talking about someone carrying 50 to 60 joints with them, I'd hardly call that minor personal possession," he said.

 

And where do the guys carrying 5 grams usually get it from? One of two places:

 

1. They grow it themselves, subjecting them to the haphazard enforcement as explained above.

 

2. Somebody carrying a lot of weed for sale - probably a large-scale grower or intermediary possessor.

 

This is half-assing it. Either legalize it, or don't.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

More proof at how fucked up Canada is.

 

This is going to cause us (that is, AMERICANS) nothing but grief.

Because Lord knows Canada should be more concerned about how their laws affect Americans than their own citizens. And if this is so fucked up then why are individual states in the US doing the same thing?

[Guest Mole]

More proof at how fucked up Canada is.

 

This is going to cause us (that is, AMERICANS) nothing but grief.

Because Lord knows Canada should be more concerned about how their laws affect Americans than their own citizens. And if this is so fucked up then why are individual states in the US doing the same thing?

Isn't it a federal law?

 

My dad made a good point about legalizing weed in America, the beer companies wouldn't allow it. They would loose soo much money, and they give tons of money to the Congress fuckheads.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

: : moves to Canada : :

 

I applaud them for this decision, and not letting the US bully them around.

They didn't let the US bully them around?

 

Where did you get that idea? They tightened laws on mairjuana growers.

 

In other words, they've stopped going after the rich people buying marijuana and are now going after the poor people growing it.

 

EDIT:

 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

 

The new bill also doubles the maximum sentence for growers, raising it to 14 years in prison from the current seven.

 

The penalty for drug trafficking stays the same, with a maximum life sentence.

[Guest BDC]

It's strange. This article made a big deal about what a criminal conviction can do to someone in terms of a career. Well, duh. Think consequences. If that's why this went into action... *sigh*

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Oh CANADA~!

 

This is a step in the right direction. Hopefully the lax attitudes to the north and south now will peer pressure us to lighten up a bit on minor drug offenses.

[Guest mach7]

Our country is seriously messed up.

 

I don't necessarily agree with smoking pot, but this is a step in the right direction. Alcohol kills more people than Marijuana does. And fining people for possessing a small amount does more good for us than having our tax dollars pay to house them in a prison.

 

Even still. Right now, our laws are so hypocritical it makes my head spin.

 

Alcohol companies are allowed to advertise on TV, in magazines, on billboards. Yet it's illegal for tobacco companies to do so. The can sponsor events, but no advertising allowed.

 

I don't drink OR smoke, but how messed up is that?

[Guest Vyce]

More proof at how fucked up Canada is.

 

This is going to cause us (that is, AMERICANS) nothing but grief.

are you joking?

No, I'm not.

 

Oops, looks like I failed to gauge the opinion of the board.

 

DRUGZ ARE KEWL! MORE POT 4 U!!!!!

 

That better?

 

I'll elaborate if I have the time to do some researching on the net. If I don't, though, will it really matter?

[Guest bob_barron]

Yea- Canada should do everything the US wants and not look out for its own interests.

 

Damn SARS

[Guest mach7]

More proof at how fucked up Canada is.

 

This is going to cause us (that is, AMERICANS) nothing but grief.

are you joking?

No, I'm not.

 

Oops, looks like I failed to gauge the opinion of the board.

 

DRUGZ ARE KEWL! MORE POT 4 U!!!!!

 

That better?

 

I'll elaborate if I have the time to do some researching on the net. If I don't, though, will it really matter?

Yeah, because all of us in Canada really care what the Americans think of our laws. Riiight.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

OH CANADA!

 

it's about time.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I know what I'm doing tonight to celebrate. That's right.....

 

 

LISTENING TO SOME RITA MCNEIL RECORDS BABY!~

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

Damn it what about crack legislation!?!?

[Guest ElectricRaccoon]

In other words, they've stopped going after the rich people buying marijuana and are now going after the poor people growing it.

 

Under the bill, people caught with 15 grams (half an ounce, or enough for about 15 to 30 joints) or less of cannabis would only be fined, and criminal penalties would be reduced on those growing up to 25 marijuana plants.

 

Anyone with a major grop op likely isn't going to be that poor, and I doubt they're going to push for the full sentence if someone small-time has, say, 40 plants (15 over the limit) - a trailer project versus a hydro operation, say. Maybe to make a few examples, but it's too incongrous to be the norm.

"The poor people growing it" is reaching as much as "the rich people smoking it". There's a lot of buy-in required to do it right in any serious quantity.

Of course, it's probably moot in the first place, because there's no reason not to believe that Paul Martin is going to find a way to pooch this. Chretien has made it a policy to cut Martin off at the knees at every opportunity, and now Martin has enough allies to have a good shot at pooching most/all of Chretien's "legacy" policies. And good for him, too. Chretien did dick all for his entire time in office - a great line in a political cartoon I think was in the Toronto Star - was "to do something wrong, you must first do something". Now that he won't be around to be accountable, Chretien is trying to do all this magical shit for Canada, so he's still remembered for more than badly straining our relations with the US (although this hardly helps). Martin has every right to pooch him, because what he's doing now is as big a weasel move as fucking over every possible successor in his own cabinet. Chretien has demonstrated why we need a two-term limit for Prime Ministers, too - he could have been in power until death if he chose to do so and kept getting elected, and damned if, up until he announced his impending retirement, that looked like exactly what he was going to do.

 

But, getting back to weed, this is really going to drive prices up. They're already nailing a lot of growers, and now that there's only a ticket involved, a lot more people are going to be interested in, at least once, "trying one of them funny cigarettes". Supply likely won't go up, demand likely will, and that can only mean one thing. If the cuts to the penalty for having less than 25 plants are serious, I'd bet that a lot of serious smokers are going to attempt homestone. Ideally, I'd say make less than (random number) 5 plants punishable by a fine under this same legislation, and close the loop. With a really low number, selling like that is really unfeasible, unless you want to sell like a couple ounces for the entire growing season and have none for yourself. A couple plants can be grown on the cheap, and (assuming a significant percentage of people do this, which they won't, because they're universally cheap and lazy, but that's beside the point) this, in the scenes where it does happen, cuts sellers out of the process entirely. Plus, man, just the pride - like that time the moonshine turned out great.

 

(PS: And yet it remains illegal to own a still - on this same subject, I say keep distributing moonshine illegal (unlike shitty weed, bad moonshine kills you), but legalize stills. You can make homemade fortified wine, and I've had some of that shit that was like fifty percent alcohol (surprised it didn't dissolve the bottle, actually). I know this won't happen, because of Canada's draconian liquor laws and takes ($20 for a 26er of the cheapest shit, super-taxed if its sold at barrel proof so it has to be watered down to 40% - a bottle of Bacardi 151 is just over $40 here) - but it's kind of ridiculous. If you want to risk blindness on yourself, I say go for it -the government has no right to say what you can and can't do to your own body in any case.

 

Although, this ticket is going to ruin a lot of perfectly good high school rumours. "Man, you know the Political Science (or Media Studies, or Visual Arts whatever) smokes up" is going to have all the hep cache of the rumour that they drink or, like, don't wear a seatbelt. Eh, it's not like you can go back anyway. Besides, calling someone a fuck is now considered hate speech and gets you expelled and on two years probation or whatever. Stupid fucking world.

Edited May 28, 2003 by ElectricRaccoon

[Guest Lightning Flik]

I know what I'm doing tonight to celebrate. That's right.....

 

 

LISTENING TO SOME RITA MCNEIL RECORDS BABY!~

*sighs* ...I was wondering when that post would come about. Not specifically her, but just a silly joke nevertheless.

 

At least it's a step in the right direction sort of. Not the greatest solution, but at least better than what is already in place. Besides, with the amount of drug trafficking that goes on in my own town, I would be happy that this law gets in place. I'm getting tired of hearing about the fifthteen or so raids that are being made by the police in my city. ...then again, it took till this year for us to get a cop force for drugs.

 

Anywoo, yah for Canada. Let's just see though if the Liberals will actually pass the law.

[Guest ElectricRaccoon]

I know what I'm doing tonight to celebrate. That's right.....

 

 

LISTENING TO SOME RITA MCNEIL RECORDS BABY!~

*sighs* ...I was wondering when that post would come about. Not specifically her, but just a silly joke nevertheless.

 

(deletia)

 

Anywoo, yah for Canada. Let's just see though if the Liberals will actually pass the law.

Personally, I'd have gone with an Anne Murray joke. Although she could probably go toe-to-toe with like Dimebag Darrell or olden-days Snoop Dogg. I mean, "Hippo in the Bathtub"? Someone was hitting the bucket toker on that one.