Hogan- why i won't cheer

[Guest Big Poppa Smurf]

sting basically wasn't allowed to wrestle after returning in 1997, either he was booked to squash, booked to be screwed, or booked in stupid gimmick matches.

- Was that the year of the Crow gimmick? If so that was done as part of his storyline.

 

why did hogan get to assist savage in winning the title at WM4? to get his stupid face in the main event.

- He was involved to give a rub to Savage

 

and then at WM8 savage vs. flair was the very definition of a match that should be the main event, great wrestlers, great storyline, great match, and of course it was for the title. instead we got hogan vs. sid and the warrior lovefest.

-Because at the time Hogan was still more popular than everyone else in the company.

 

what about steamboat losing the ic title to honkytonk man. after partaking in one of the greatest matches of all time, to cap off a stunning feud.

steamboat was screwed ou of the title and then dropped into the midcard, given a stupid dragon gimmick and allowed to leave for the nwa. it was pretty obvious steamboat was going all the way to the top, but for some reason, i.e  hogan being threatened by steamboat's rising popularity and supreme ringwork, vince let his no.2 face go.

- Steamboat didn't start the Dragon gimmick until he came back to the WWF after his first NWA run.

 

hulkamania did run the wwf and wcw into the ground. simply because in both feds it was rammed down the fans throats, who lost interest in seeing the same thing over and over again. so the ratings were already in free fall by the time vince or wcw tried something new.

- Thats not a fact thats your personal opinion just because you don't like the guy.

 

how did hogan try to ruin flair's legacy? well he used his backstage power to have flair dress up as awoman among other things.

- I thought Russo did that.

 

sure flair had friends in wcw but he didn't hire them not to mention arn anderson is one of the all time greats something you can't say about beefcake,horace hogan,duggan,etc.

-I forgot about all of those titles that Hogans friends have won.

Flair has a history of backstage antics just like Hogan, Tom Zenk recounts a great story about the backstage politicking of Flair in regards to squashing Austins push long before Hogan arrived in WCW.

 

when we say that he made the belts his play things we mean that he never defended them, he'd only defend them once every month or two.

- There wasn't any live primetime show on twice a week back then either.

 

he held down the other wrestler by refusing to work matches with heels, and by talking shit about the faces.

-Like Austin refused to work with Jarrett and talked shit about Hall? How Flair refused to do an angle with AUstin? Like Taker squashing DDP? Like HHH's backstage politics? When a wrestler gets power he tends to use it to help himself and sometimes his friends, its the nature of the beast.

[Guest caboose]

hey i'm not denying that other stars have held back wrestlers.

i've been giving austin heat in my other posts, and i've bitched about all the politicians in the past on other forums.

my argument is that hogan is the worst of all the selfish, politicians, and that he is the standard as to who we should measure backstage politicians, yet everyone has conveniently forotten about all hogan's baggage.

besides i enjoyed WM as much as the next person, i haven't got so 'into' a match in a long time(i was on rocky's side). but i'm not going to turnaround and jump on the yellow and red bandwagon

[Guest Goodear]

** Flair by the way made Sting look like gold in their feud. **

 

 Let's recap that feud for a few minutes.  Sting joins Horsemen after the Terry Funk-Ric Flair feud for about twenty seconds before they kick him out.  It sets the precident for "Sting being a giant dofus who always gets turned on"... which is only overshadowed by "Lex Luger's happy potion wears off and he becomes a heel again."  Okay, so Sting is angry and wants revenge, but unfortunately tears the crap out of his knee trying to climb a cage and is out until The Great American Bash.  The Bash comes up and Sting needs four guys surrounding the ring (Orndorff, JYD and The Steiners) and Ole Anderson tied to El Gigante to finally beat Flair.  The announced reason was to keep the Four Horsemen out of the match, but it was really their to protect Flair's reputation.  Anyway, Sting wins with a small package.  

 

 The next feud for Sting is with Sid and that gets blown to crap with, get this, an imposter Sting angle and then he gets stuck with The Black Scorpion, maybe the suckiest angle of all time.  Then Flair wins the belt back at some house show... AT SOME HOUSE SHOW.  That does not make Sting look like gold.  That makes Sting look like a moron who needs help to beat the champion and loses the belt back at a venue of little to no importance.

 

* Remember it was Hogan who wouldn't job clean to Sting at Starrcade 1997 in the biggest most anticipated blowoff ever. Then getting the title back 2 months later, yeah like Hogan didn't have anything to do with that. **

 

Okay, the Starcade Screw Up has found its way onto Hogan's shoulders for some reason when he, among the three participants in the match had the least to do with the mistake.  Now, either Sting was supposed to kick out after the leg drop or Nick Patrick was supposed to be dropping a fast count.  All Hogan was supposed to be doing was cover Sting, and he did it.

 

Sting's title reign got blown up from the start due to that finish, but is that Hogan's fault?  I'm not sure you can make that case.

 

** What I'm saying is that the 10 year old mark that has been re-awakened in most, is blinding people to the shit that Hogan has done throughout his career and all the bullshit that he's put fans through in the last 5 years. **

 

Hogan's a bad worker who is way past his prime, but evidently people still want to see him perform.  He's evidentally a backstage politician but so's everyone else who has carried a company as a top draw, except maybe The Rock.  I don't consider Hogan as to be so horrible to keep him from being on TV and branded some sort of anti-Christ.

 

** When Hogan pulled out the 'Hulk' for his feud with nash in mid 1999, it was obvious that it was the final blow, WCW just died a slow, painful death. **

 

The death of WCW is the direct result of poor management by Time Warner.  If they actually cared about the product in the slightest bit, picked a direction to go with and stuck with it, and kept their own hands on the reigns instead of handing it off to whomever knocked on the door that day, WCW might still be around.

[Guest RickyB]

Caboose, you need to look at things as they really are, not how you want to see them.

 

hogan ran the wwf into the ground with his hulkamania bullshit.

 

How did he run the WWF into the ground?  Hulkamania made the WWF, if Hulk Hogan didn't join the WWF in 1984 then Vince McMahon wouldn't have had the big star to build the first Wrestlemania around.  If that Wrestlemania had failed then the WWF would have just become part of the NWA again like they did the previous few times that they tried to go national.  From then on Vince McMahon had some of the easiest booked feuds for the next few years because Hulk Hogan was so popular, all he had to do to make the next top heel was have them beat 10 jobbers to show how tough they are.  Have them bad mouth Hulk Hogan (make them an instant top heel) then have them beat 5 more jobbers and then have them make a challange to Hulk Hogan.  Instant big match,

 

hogan ran wcw into the ground with his nWo/hulkamania bullshit.

 

Hogan was brought into WCW so that Eric Bischoff could get Turner's board members to agree to what he wanted because most Turner board members were Hulk Hogan marks.  That's how Eric Bischoff got Ted Turner to agree to start WCW Monday Nitro and that's how he got Ted Turner to agree to get out his checkbook to bring in big name talent.

 

The nWo angle only got over as well as it did because Hulk Hogan joined them.  At that time no-one would ever expect Hulk Hogan to turn heel.  He was that good guy that would just always be therre, not only that but he was the most well known Wrestler around.  If he never joined them i'm guessing it would have ran out of steam by 1997.

 

hogan held back steamboat, savage and sting three of the most popular superstars of the last 15 years, and prevented them from accomplishing what could have been three legendary careers.

 

Steamboat wasn't held down with Hogan, in the 80's Hogan was so over that Steamboat could never get anywhere near his place on the card and Hogan was well gone by the time that Steamboat started his "Dragon" gimmick.

 

Savage's career only really went anywhere with his heel turn and feud with Hogan.  He would never have been anywhere near a legend if Hogan hadn't feuded with him.

 

Sting's career was fucked up by Ole Anderson's bad booking.  Hogan tried to help get him over (watch the Nitro 20/11/95 when Hogan made Sting look like a real star and watch how Hogan sold being scared of him during 1997 with Sting's crow gimmick.) many times.

 

hogan tried to destroy ric flair's legacy.

 

How exactly?  The match at BATB 94 was won by Hogan because Bischoff needed to bring some big publicity to WCW and having Hulk Hogan as World Champion would have done that.  Oh, and ever watched Uncensored 99?  When Flair beat Hogan??

 

hogan tried to prevent bret hart from becoming the wwf's main man, then held him back in wcw.

 

Bret Hart became the WWF's main man if I remember rightly.  In WCW Bret was injured way to often to ever get a real feud going between the two.

 

hogan made the wwf title and wcw title his play things.

 

Hogan made the WWF Title mean something, he made it mean more than the NWA Title in the 80's, and at that time the only Title that meant anything was the NWA Title.

 

In WCW Hogan made the WCW Title mean so much that it became one of the biggest moments in Wrestling history when Goldberg beat him.

 

hogan had relatives and friends all as untalented as hogan himself pushed down are throats.

 

Every Wrestler with any kind of pull brings in friends and reletives.  Flair brought in Anderson and David Flair (don't try to tell me David Flair is talented).  Dynamite Kid brought in Davey Boy Smith, Bret brought in Jim Neidhart.

 

Plus Ed Leslie earned his spot in the WWF, he only became friends with Hogan due to that run he had in the WWF, same goes for Jim Duggan.  Horace Hogan earned his spot with his matches in Japan.

 

hogan made wcw re-hire the warrior simply to get back an 8-year old job.

 

Actually Eric Bischoff had been trying to get the Warrior since 1995.  The Warrior punked out Hogan for about 3 months before Hogan won with interfierence from Horace, a fireball spot and two Leg Drops if I remember right.

 

hogan tried to sellout vince and the wwf in the steroids trial, despite the wwf making hogan who he was, and being on the steroids himself.

 

a) Hogan didn't sell out Vince.  The media made more of what Hogan said than it actually was.

b) Vince McMahon WAS distributing steroids to Macho Man, Dino Bravo, The Warrior and many other WWF stars.

c) Hogan wasn't on steroids until he joined the WWF.  Vince told Hogan to take them because it would help his draw.  Watch how big Hogan was at WM 1 to how big he was in the AWA and in Japan in 1983.

 

sting basically wasn't allowed to wrestle after returning in 1997, either he was booked to squash, booked to be screwed, or booked in stupid gimmick matches.

 

That was his gimmick!  Sting was supposed to be an unstoppable monster, he was on the booking team at that time (he said it himself) he WANTED to run that angle.

 

why did hogan get to assist savage in winning the title at WM4?

 

Because at the time Hogan was the biggest name in Wrestling.  The fans loved Hogan so if Hogan helped Savage then the fans would love Savage too.

 

what about steamboat losing the ic title to honkytonk man. after partaking in one of the greatest matches of all time, to cap off a stunning feud.

steamboat was screwed ou of the title and then dropped into the midcard, given a stupid dragon gimmick and allowed to leave for the nwa. it was pretty obvious steamboat was going all the way to the top, but for some reason, i.e  hogan being threatened by steamboat's rising popularity and supreme ringwork, vince let his no.2 face go.

 

Steamboat lost the Title to the Honky Tonk man because they wanted to give Honky a push... it had nothing to do with Hogan.

 

Steamboat didn't do the Dragon gimmick until the early 90's, that had nothing to do with Hogan either.

 

hulkamania did run the wwf and wcw into the ground. simply because in both feds it was rammed down the fans throats, who lost interest in seeing the same thing over and over again. so the ratings were already in free fall by the time vince or wcw tried something new.

 

The fans didn't lose intrest in the WWF until after Hogan left.  Hogan's popularity was the only thing keeping the WWF going in the early 90's.  If you're going to make a list of reason's why you don't like Hogan then at least tell the truth.

 

In WCW, Hogan brought intrest from the fans to watch WCW in 94, Hogan helped bring the ratings up between 96 and 98 with the nWo angle and then bad booking ruined his runs in the Red & Yellow in 99, and then Kevin Sullivans Hulkamania 2000 angle (Hogan didn't want to come back at that time, Turner forced him to come back).

 

You can't blame Hogan for killing WCW at that time since he left in July 2000, WCW had almost a year to turn things around.  It was poor management that killed WCW.  The only problem with Hogan was that, other than the nWo angle, WCW didn't know how to use him.

 

I'm guessing that you never really seen much of Hulk Hogan and you're taking a lot of this from Wrestling Newsboards.  Hogan has done some backstage polititioning in the past - but so has Austin, Michaels & Flair.  In fact Flair had total booking power over WCW at one point and he used it to keep himself at the top of WCW during the whole of the late 80's - Hogan never did that.

 

You might not like Hogan, that's cool I guess, but at least understand that this is Hogan's last run.  For once let someone who's done so much for Wrestling leave as a hero.  Too many Wrestlers leave as Wrestling tradgedies.

[Guest Goodear]

** Sting basically wasn't allowed to wrestle after returning in 1997, either he was booked to squash, booked to be screwed, or booked in stupid gimmick matches. **

 

Sting was on the way down skill-wise and wasn't having many good matches with anyone other than DDP on a Nitro.  Not "being allowed to wrestle" is ridiculous.  Do you honestly think someone pulled Sting aside before his matches and said, "Hey Sting, make sure you suck tonight?"

 

** Why did Hogan get to assist savage in winning the title at WM4? To get his stupid face in the main event. **

 

Because it made perfect sense booking wise with the DiBiase-Andre alliance screwing Hogan over?

 

** And then at WM8 Savage vs. Flair was the very definition of a match that should be the main event, great wrestlers, great storyline, great match, and of course it was for the title. Instead we got Hogan vs. Sid and the Warrior lovefest. **

 

Hogan-Sid was a marquee match up at the time and Ultimate Warrior returning was actually still a big deal.

 

** What about Steamboat losing the IC title to HonkyTonkMan? After partaking in one of the greatest matches of all time, to cap off a stunning feud,

Seamboat was screwed outof the title and then dropped into the midcard, given a stupid dragon gimmick and allowed to leave for the NWA.  It was pretty obvious Steamboat was going all the way to the top, but for some reason, i.e  Hogan being threatened by Steamboat's rising popularity and supreme ringwork, Vince let his no.2 face go. **

 

HonkyTonkMan was a great IC champion.  A GREAT IC champion.  He defined what a cowardly heel should be and do in order to keep a title.  And then, once he lost the belt, he went around the horn jobbing to anyone and everyone he possibly could.  And if you want to blame Hogan for Ricky Steamboat's inability to get to the top of the federation, let me remind you of a few things.

 

1) You have exactly zero evidence to back up the assertion that Hogan actually did consciously hold Steamboat down.

2) Steamboat has the personality of burnt toast.  He's a hell of a worker, but he didn't capture the imagination of fans well enough to be the tippy top guy.

3) Steamboat retired and came back a whole bunch of times before he permentally injured his back.  Now, that his perogitive and all, but if I'm looking to promote a guy, I want to be sure that he doesn't just come in and quit one day.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

IM TIRED OF EVERYONE Putting Down Hogan. Hes the only damn Reason Wrestling is what it is. Hes the reason you watch it. Talk about holding people down, look at SHAWN MICHAELS. EVEROYNE HERO. He held down ALOT OF PEOPLE. Owen & Vader to name a couple. Everyone calls Hogan the bad guy. Hogan good or bad is love dby the fans. Maybe cause hes the best WWF has every seen. He may not be the thechnical master, but come on! a shoulderblock gets a huge pop to him! before you knock Hogan. Just remember. You wouldnt be watching Stone Cold, or the Crock, or Triple H today if it wsnt for him. And Savage was held down?!!? Former Interocntinental & 2 TIME WWF champion! Steamboat left because of personal issues with Vince, and basically anyone who sucked didnt DISSERVE a push when they cant draw.

[Guest Nater]

9 of 10 marks agree, Hogan is the Best EVER!!11!!

 

9 of 10 smarks agree, Hogan is done with kk thx bye la~

 

Seeing as the company is more mark focused, Hogan will be around (just like anybody) till he stops drawing.

[Guest godthedog]

IM TIRED OF EVERYONE Putting Down Hogan. Hes the only damn Reason Wrestling is what it is. Hes the reason you watch it. Talk about holding people down, look at SHAWN MICHAELS. EVEROYNE HERO. He held down ALOT OF PEOPLE. Owen & Vader to name a couple. Everyone calls Hogan the bad guy. Hogan good or bad is love dby the fans. Maybe cause hes the best WWF has every seen. He may not be the thechnical master, but come on! a shoulderblock gets a huge pop to him! before you knock Hogan. Just remember. You wouldnt be watching Stone Cold, or the Crock, or Triple H today if it wsnt for him. And Savage was held down?!!? Former Interocntinental & 2 TIME WWF champion! Steamboat left because of personal issues with Vince, and basically anyone who sucked didnt DISSERVE a push when they cant draw.

 

i really hope this was trying to be funny, with all the typos & bad grammar.  

 

anyway: i'll bitch about hogan till the day i die for the simple fact that he doesn't entertain me, backstage shit aside.  if a wrestler entertains me while on camera, i root for him & want to see more of him.  if he doesn't, i want him off my television.  hogan has entertained me once since returning to the wwf, & that was only because i thought it was funny when he whipped the rock standup poster with his weight belt.  nobody can only entertain me once with all that camera time & claim me as a fan.  screw hogan.

[Guest Goodear]

i really hope this was trying to be funny, with all the typos & bad grammar.  

 

You've got to be kidding me.

[Guest JHawk]

If I can add a few things.

 

What about Steamboat losing the IC title to HonkyTonkMan? After partaking in one of the greatest matches of all time, to cap off a stunning feud,

Seamboat was screwed outof the title and then dropped into the midcard, given a stupid dragon gimmick and allowed to leave for the NWA.  It was pretty obvious Steamboat was going all the way to the top, but for some reason, i.e  Hogan being threatened by Steamboat's rising popularity and supreme ringwork, Vince let his no.2 face go.

 

Steamboat's mentioned in public interviews that he was promised a year-long title reign, but when he asked for four weeks off to be with his wife when their baby was born, Vince said he didn't want a dormant #2 title and jobbed him to Honky.  Steamboat then took pretty much the rest of 1987 off (returning in time for the Survivor Series but never getting an IC rematch of note).  But nobody's disputing that Steamboat was the No. 2 face in the company despite having the "personality of burnt toast" as someone put it.

 

In WCW Hogan made the WCW Title mean so much that it became one of the biggest moments in Wrestling history when Goldberg beat him.

 

Actually, it was one of the biggest moments in wrestling history for two reasons.

 

1.  It cemented Goldberg's status as a major player (whether smarks wanted it or not, Goldberg was over as hell).

 

2.  Hogan had only defended it twice since winning it three months earlier, and the first of those was against Piper on a throwaway Nitro during the NBA playoffs.  So people were glad somebody might actually defend the damn thing.

 

how did hogan try to ruin flair's legacy? well he used his backstage power to have flair dress up as awoman among other things.

- I thought Russo did that.

 

That was 1995, long before Russo ever had any pull.  But I'll give Hogan the benefit of the doubt here, as Lawler was doing that angle in Memphis 10 years earlier and drew a ton of money to his feud with TOMMY F'N RICH doing that.

 

when we say that he made the belts his play things we mean that he never defended them, he'd only defend them once every month or two.

- There wasn't any live primetime show on twice a week back then either.

 

Hell, compare that schedule to his WCW title defense schedule and I'll take it and run.  At least you could point to that WWF title defense schedule and say "30-day rule".  Then in 1995 Hogan went from February 26 (a house show one week after SuperBrawl V) to July 16 (Bash at the Beach) without defending on TV, or at a house show, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

Sadly, this is one argument that will never end.  My take on Hogan:  Keep him away from the Undisputed Title (we do not need Hogan vs. HHH if HHH's as lazy as he has been) and let him run until the fans turn on him.  You might as well make money off of him while you can.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<** Flair by the way made Sting look like gold in their feud. **

 

Let's recap that feud for a few minutes.  Sting joins Horsemen after the Terry Funk-Ric Flair feud for about twenty seconds before they kick him out.  It sets the precident for "Sting being a giant dofus who always gets turned on"... which is only overshadowed by "Lex Luger's happy potion wears off and he becomes a heel again."  Okay, so Sting is angry and wants revenge, but unfortunately tears the crap out of his knee trying to climb a cage and is out until The Great American Bash.  The Bash comes up and Sting needs four guys surrounding the ring (Orndorff, JYD and The Steiners) and Ole Anderson tied to El Gigante to finally beat Flair.  The announced reason was to keep the Four Horsemen out of the match, but it was really their to protect Flair's reputation.  Anyway, Sting wins with a small package.>>>

 

 

It was booked to show that, without help, Flair couldn't beat Sting.  

 

 

<<<The next feud for Sting is with Sid and that gets blown to crap with, get this, an imposter Sting angle and then he gets stuck with The Black Scorpion, maybe the suckiest angle of all time.  Then Flair wins the belt back at some house show... AT SOME HOUSE SHOW.  That does not make Sting look like gold.  That makes Sting look like a moron who needs help to beat the champion and loses the belt back at a venue of little to no importance.>>>

 

 

The Black Scorpion angle was terrible---but how is that Flair's fault? That angle sits squarely on Ole's head. And, since I have the match on tape (they did air the last 10 minutes on TV repeatedly), Flair didn't exactly beat Sting clean.

 

 

<<<* Remember it was Hogan who wouldn't job clean to Sting at Starrcade 1997 in the biggest most anticipated blowoff ever. Then getting the title back 2 months later, yeah like Hogan didn't have anything to do with that. **

 

Okay, the Starcade Screw Up has found its way onto Hogan's shoulders for some reason when he, among the three participants in the match had the least to do with the mistake.  Now, either Sting was supposed to kick out after the leg drop or Nick Patrick was supposed to be dropping a fast count.  All Hogan was supposed to be doing was cover Sting, and he did it.>>>

 

 

Who do you think planned the match out?

 

I'll give you a hint: CONVENTIONAL wisdom would've had Sting look good early, Hogan dominate the middle, and Sting rally in the end.

 

Hogan dominated almost the entire match---after Sting has spent MONTHS beating up ALL of the nWo members single-handedly.

 

 

<<<Sting's title reign got blown up from the start due to that finish, but is that Hogan's fault?  I'm not sure you can make that case.>>>

 

 

You absolutely can. The match was Hogan's baby---no doubt about it.

 

 

<<<** What I'm saying is that the 10 year old mark that has been re-awakened in most, is blinding people to the shit that Hogan has done throughout his career and all the bullshit that he's put fans through in the last 5 years. **

 

Hogan's a bad worker who is way past his prime, but evidently people still want to see him perform.  He's evidentally a backstage politician but so's everyone else who has carried a company as a top draw, except maybe The Rock.  I don't consider Hogan as to be so horrible to keep him from being on TV and branded some sort of anti-Christ.>>>

 

 

I consider the WWF pushing him over young talent to be the most counter-productive move possible.

 

 

<<<** When Hogan pulled out the 'Hulk' for his feud with nash in mid 1999, it was obvious that it was the final blow, WCW just died a slow, painful death. **

 

The death of WCW is the direct result of poor management by Time Warner.  If they actually cared about the product in the slightest bit, picked a direction to go with and stuck with it, and kept their own hands on the reigns instead of handing it off to whomever knocked on the door that day, WCW might still be around. >>>

 

 

No, a big part of WCW's death was giving the boys (such as Hogan) far too much control of their characters.

               -=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<Caboose, you need to look at things as they really are, not how you want to see them.

 

Quote  

hogan ran the wwf into the ground with his hulkamania bullshit.

 

 

How did he run the WWF into the ground?  Hulkamania made the WWF, if Hulk Hogan didn't join the WWF in 1984 then Vince McMahon wouldn't have had the big star to build the first Wrestlemania around.>>>

 

 

Sgt. Slaughter could've EASILY replaced Hogan. With no Hogan, Slaughter wouldn't have been fired from the WWF. Of course, the WWF also might have a union now, but that's another issue.

 

 

<<<If that Wrestlemania had failed then the WWF would have just become part of the NWA again like they did the previous few times that they tried to go national.  From then on Vince McMahon had some of the easiest booked feuds for the next few years because Hulk Hogan was so popular, all he had to do to make the next top heel was have them beat 10 jobbers to show how tough they are.  Have them bad mouth Hulk Hogan (make them an instant top heel) then have them beat 5 more jobbers and then have them make a challange to Hulk Hogan.  Instant big match,>>>

 

 

And they never changed the formula, even when it stopped working.

 

 

<<<Quote  

hogan ran wcw into the ground with his nWo/hulkamania bullshit.

 

 

Hogan was brought into WCW so that Eric Bischoff could get Turner's board members to agree to what he wanted because most Turner board members were Hulk Hogan marks.  That's how Eric Bischoff got Ted Turner to agree to start WCW Monday Nitro and that's how he got Ted Turner to agree to get out his checkbook to bring in big name talent.>>>

 

 

But Hogan didn't draw squat. And you can definitely place WCW's losing of Steve Austin (in hindsight, a bad move) largely on the shoulders of Hogan.

 

 

<<<The nWo angle only got over as well as it did because Hulk Hogan joined them.>>>

 

 

It got over because fans thought Hall & Nash were still with the WWF. They could've replaced Hogan with Luger (the original plan) and the angle would've still made big money.

 

 

<<<At that time no-one would ever expect Hulk Hogan to turn heel.  He was that good guy that would just always be therre, not only that but he was the most well known Wrestler around.  If he never joined them i'm guessing it would have ran out of steam by 1997.>>>

 

 

Um, it DID run out of steam by 1997.

 

 

<<<Quote  

hogan held back steamboat, savage and sting three of the most popular superstars of the last 15 years, and prevented them from accomplishing what could have been three legendary careers.

 

 

Steamboat wasn't held down with Hogan, in the 80's Hogan was so over that Steamboat could never get anywhere near his place on the card and Hogan was well gone by the time that Steamboat started his "Dragon" gimmick.>>>

 

 

Steamboat's IC Title run was cut short by Hogan's politicking.

 

 

<<<Savage's career only really went anywhere with his heel turn and feud with Hogan.>>>

 

 

Savage was ready to be World Champ back in '86. And as Savage ever beaten Hulk?

 

 

<<<He would never have been anywhere near a legend if Hogan hadn't feuded with him.>>>

 

 

He was insanely over in the WWF before he and Hogan had their first match in 12/85.

 

 

<<<Sting's career was fucked up by Ole Anderson's bad booking.  Hogan tried to help get him over (watch the Nitro 20/11/95 when Hogan made Sting look like a real star and watch how Hogan sold being scared of him during 1997 with Sting's crow gimmick.) many times.>>>

 

 

BUT, in the biggest match of the biggest show in WCW history (Starrcade '97), Hogan made Sting look weak. He made him look inept.

 

 

<<<Quote  

hogan tried to destroy ric flair's legacy.

 

 

How exactly?  The match at BATB 94 was won by Hogan because Bischoff needed to bring some big publicity to WCW and having Hulk Hogan as World Champion would have done that.  Oh, and ever watched Uncensored 99?  When Flair beat Hogan??>>>

 

 

Oh, you mean the match where they changed stips three times in mid-match? THAT job?

 

 

<<<Quote  

hogan tried to prevent bret hart from becoming the wwf's main man, then held him back in wcw.

 

 

Bret Hart became the WWF's main man if I remember rightly.  In WCW Bret was injured way to often to ever get a real feud going between the two.>>>

 

 

Ever wonder why Hogan was given the World Title at WM IX right after Hart lost it? Know that Hogan refused to face Bret for the belt and that's why Vince had him job to Yoko?

 

 

<<<Quote  

hogan made the wwf title and wcw title his play things.

 

 

Hogan made the WWF Title mean something, he made it mean more than the NWA Title in the 80's, and at that time the only Title that meant anything was the NWA Title.>>>

 

 

No, the WWF going national made the WWF belt mean something. Hogan was just there.

 

 

<<<In WCW Hogan made the WCW Title mean so much that it became one of the biggest moments in Wrestling history when Goldberg beat him.>>>

 

 

That was a big moment in wrestling history?

 

More like one of the worst business decisions in history.

 

 

<<<Quote  

hogan had relatives and friends all as untalented as hogan himself pushed down are throats.

 

 

Every Wrestler with any kind of pull brings in friends and reletives.  Flair brought in Anderson and David Flair (don't try to tell me David Flair is talented).  Dynamite Kid brought in Davey Boy Smith, Bret brought in Jim Neidhart.>>>

 

 

David was BOOKED as being inept. Anderson was a great worker.

 

However, Hogan had Duggan be given the U.S Title, the Nasty Boys involved in the WCW Tag Title picture forever, Renegade being put over Arn and Ondorff, Brutus Beefcake being put in the ME of a PPV...

 

 

<<<Plus Ed Leslie earned his spot in the WWF, he only became friends with Hogan due to that run he had in the WWF, same goes for Jim Duggan.>>>

 

 

Leslie has said that Hogan got him his job in the WWF and saved his job in WCW repeatedly.

 

 

<<<Horace Hogan earned his spot with his matches in Japan.>>>

 

 

Come on, you don't believe that, do you?

 

 

<<<Quote  

hogan made wcw re-hire the warrior simply to get back an 8-year old job.

 

 

Actually Eric Bischoff had been trying to get the Warrior since 1995.  The Warrior punked out Hogan for about 3 months before Hogan won with interfierence from Horace, a fireball spot and two Leg Drops if I remember right.>>>

 

 

Warrior and Hogan had the worst angle that managed to culminate in the worst match of the 1990's.

 

 

<<<Quote  

hogan tried to sellout vince and the wwf in the steroids trial, despite the wwf making hogan who he was, and being on the steroids himself.

 

 

a) Hogan didn't sell out Vince.  The media made more of what Hogan said than it actually was.

b) Vince McMahon WAS distributing steroids to Macho Man, Dino Bravo, The Warrior and many other WWF stars.

c) Hogan wasn't on steroids until he joined the WWF.  Vince told Hogan to take them because it would help his draw.  Watch how big Hogan was at WM 1 to how big he was in the AWA and in Japan in 1983.>>>

 

 

Hogan was on steroids before he entered the WWF.

 

 

<<<Quote  

sting basically wasn't allowed to wrestle after returning in 1997, either he was booked to squash, booked to be screwed, or booked in stupid gimmick matches.

 

 

That was his gimmick!  Sting was supposed to be an unstoppable monster, he was on the booking team at that time (he said it himself) he WANTED to run that angle.

 

Quote  

why did hogan get to assist savage in winning the title at WM4?

 

 

Because at the time Hogan was the biggest name in Wrestling.  The fans loved Hogan so if Hogan helped Savage then the fans would love Savage too.>>>

 

 

The fans loved Savage REGARDLESS because they loved Elizabeth. Heck, Honky Tonk Man did more to get Savage over as a face than Hogan did.

 

 

<<<Quote  

what about steamboat losing the ic title to honkytonk man. after partaking in one of the greatest matches of all time, to cap off a stunning feud.

steamboat was screwed ou of the title and then dropped into the midcard, given a stupid dragon gimmick and allowed to leave for the nwa. it was pretty obvious steamboat was going all the way to the top, but for some reason, i.e  hogan being threatened by steamboat's rising popularity and supreme ringwork, vince let his no.2 face go.

 

 

Steamboat lost the Title to the Honky Tonk man because they wanted to give Honky a push... it had nothing to do with Hogan.>>>

 

 

Hogan pushed for it out of fear of Steamboat's rising popularity. The WWF was teasing Hogan v Steamboat matches in their magazine right before Steamboat dropped the belt.

 

 

<<<Steamboat didn't do the Dragon gimmick until the early 90's, that had nothing to do with Hogan either.

 

Quote  

hulkamania did run the wwf and wcw into the ground. simply because in both feds it was rammed down the fans throats, who lost interest in seeing the same thing over and over again. so the ratings were already in free fall by the time vince or wcw tried something new.  

 

 

The fans didn't lose intrest in the WWF until after Hogan left.  Hogan's popularity was the only thing keeping the WWF going in the early 90's.  If you're going to make a list of reason's why you don't like Hogan then at least tell the truth.>>>

 

 

You can't be serious.

 

Hogan got boos REGULARLY over his last few years in the WWF. And the WWF started going south with him there.

 

 

<<<In WCW, Hogan brought intrest from the fans to watch WCW in 94>>>

 

 

Yet ratings, attendance, and buyrates don't really show that.

 

 

<<<, Hogan helped bring the ratings up between 96 and 98 with the nWo angle and then bad booking ruined his runs in the Red & Yellow in 99, and then Kevin Sullivans Hulkamania 2000 angle (Hogan didn't want to come back at that time, Turner forced him to come back).>>>

 

 

The nWo angle drew---not Hogan. And Hogan had control over his character and timed his returns.

 

 

<<<You can't blame Hogan for killing WCW at that time since he left in July 2000, WCW had almost a year to turn things around.>>>

 

 

They were dead long before then.

 

 

<<<It was poor management that killed WCW.  The only problem with Hogan was that, other than the nWo angle, WCW didn't know how to use him.>>>

 

 

Not much you can do with a poor, old, slow wrestler with poor mic skills.

 

 

<<<I'm guessing that you never really seen much of Hulk Hogan and you're taking a lot of this from Wrestling Newsboards.  Hogan has done some backstage polititioning in the past - but so has Austin, Michaels & Flair.>>>

 

 

Not close to Hogan's level.

 

 

<<<In fact Flair had total booking power over WCW at one point and he used it to keep himself at the top of WCW during the whole of the late 80's - Hogan never did that.>>>

 

 

Hulk most assuredly did that. And people forget that the one guy in WCW who wanted to put Austin over huge was...Ric Flair.

 

 

<<<You might not like Hogan, that's cool I guess, but at least understand that this is Hogan's last run.  For once let someone who's done so much for Wrestling leave as a hero.  Too many Wrestlers leave as Wrestling tradgedies. >>>

 

 

Crap matches don't make a guy a hero.

              -=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<IM TIRED OF EVERYONE Putting Down Hogan. Hes the only damn Reason Wrestling is what it is.>>>

 

 

You mean an industry with one national promotion with stagnant ratings and dropping revenue?

 

 

<<<Hes the reason you watch it.>>>

 

 

News to me.

 

 

<<<Talk about holding people down, look at SHAWN MICHAELS. EVEROYNE HERO. He held down ALOT OF PEOPLE. Owen & Vader to name a couple.>>>

 

 

He held down neither man---and "defending" Hogan by pointing to an equally bad backstage but MUCH better in-ring and mic worker) is a bad defense.

 

 

<<<Everyone calls Hogan the bad guy. Hogan good or bad is love dby the fans.>>>

 

 

Well, except for those years when he couldn't draw flies for WCW.

 

 

<<<Maybe cause hes the best WWF has every seen.>>>

 

 

Oh, he definitely isn't that.

 

 

<<<He may not be the thechnical master, but come on! a shoulderblock gets a huge pop to him!>>>

 

 

Well, compared to his normal offense, that's high-impact stuff there.

 

 

<<<before you knock Hogan. Just remember. You wouldnt be watching Stone Cold, or the Crock, or Triple H today if it wsnt for him.>>>

 

 

Yup, because wrestling did not, in fact, exist until about 1983. Bruno never drew sell-outs (even though he sucked in the ring). Ditto Backlund.

 

 

<<<And Savage was held down?!!? Former Interocntinental & 2 TIME WWF champion!>>>

 

 

Did he ever beat Hogan?

 

 

<<<Steamboat left because of personal issues with Vince, and basically anyone who sucked didnt DISSERVE a push when they cant draw.>>>

 

 

Listen to the pop Steamboat got at WM 3---bigger than Hogan's.

                  -=Mike

[Guest muzanisa]

Man if I'm going to dislike every wrestler who's a prick backstage then I better get off the Net, cancel my magazine and sheet subscriptions and never buy another Shoot tape.

Otherwise I'll be changing my favourites every week.

That has nothing to do with whether a wrestler is any good or not. Hogan is regarded as the political master, he doesn't enetertain me so I don't like him. Shawn Michaels on the other hand I'd still mark for and he wasn't far behind Hogan in the backstage games.

The Rock from all reports is unselfish, puts people over and is a nice guy. But I don't like him as a face so I don't mark for him.

I'm not going to let rumours affect my opinions of someone. They're paid to entertain if they can do that then I'll cheer them. If not I'm off to the concession stand.

[Guest TheHulkster]

TheMikeSC, you forgot that hogan, not only destroyed every fed he has ever touched while holding every single wrestler down from Frank Gotch to Steve Blackman, he also commited many more attrocities like: Hogan ran a concentration camp during the holocaust, Hogan sold bullets to Lee Harvey Oswald the day he killed Kennedy, He eats small children to retain his Freakish physique, He drowned Andrea Yates' kids and framed her for it, He burns bibles to light his cigars, and he taught flying lessons to the terrotists who flew into the world trade center. Hogan is evil I tell ya, pure evil.

[Guest]

Muzanisa is my new hero. I hope you like Triple H chum, because I am going to need you in that other thread I started.

[Guest Goodear]

It was booked to show that, without help, Flair couldn't beat Sting.

 

That might have been what they were going for, but what it looked like was that Sting needed lots of help in order to secure the title.  Consider how Flair couldn't roll out of the ring with the Dudes tossing him back in and how Scott Steiner tossed Flair's legs off the ropes while he was covering Sting.  So, instead of Sting overcoming odds to win, the odds got stacked totally in his favor.

 

The Black Scorpion angle was terrible---but how is that Flair's fault? That angle sits squarely on Ole's head. And, since I have the match on tape (they did air the last 10 minutes on TV repeatedly), Flair didn't exactly beat Sting clean.

 

The Black Scorpion thing wasn't Flair's fault, I was just recording the history of Sting's title reign.  As I recall, the finish was that both guys hit their heads together, Flair covered Sting, Sting got a foot on the ropes, but Flair pulled it off.  If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

Ack, I have to actually do some work now, I'll be back later.

[Guest Goodear]

Who do you think planned the match out?

 

I'll give you a hint: CONVENTIONAL wisdom would've had Sting look good early, Hogan dominate the middle, and Sting rally in the end.

 

Hogan dominated almost the entire match---after Sting has spent MONTHS beating up ALL of the nWo members single-handedly.

 

I would assume Sting and Hogan planned the match out together.  If Sting didn't have anything to do with the planning, he deserves to be punched in the face.  Obviously they should have included Nick Patrick in the whole deal as well because there was some seriously horrible problems with it.

 

You absolutely can. The match was Hogan's baby---no doubt about it.

 

Sure.  Sting had nothing to do with the match at all.  Nope.

 

I consider the WWF pushing him over young talent to be the most counter-productive move possible.

 

Except Hogan is only doing jobs to Rock and beating up the nWo (who I wouldn't call young talent).  He's a old time act that the people want to see for the moment.  I'm sure all the young talent will be just fine.

[Guest DebilitatorX]

At WrestleMania X-8, I cheered Hogan out of a) nostalgia, b) hatred for The Crock, and c) my nWo markdom. Now the honeymoon is over, so to speak. The guy couldn't even properly drop the big leg on the RAW after Mania.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<TheMikeSC, you forgot that hogan, not only destroyed every fed he has ever touched while holding every single wrestler down from Frank Gotch to Steve Blackman, he also commited many more attrocities like: Hogan ran a concentration camp during the holocaust, Hogan sold bullets to Lee Harvey Oswald the day he killed Kennedy, He eats small children to retain his Freakish physique, He drowned Andrea Yates' kids and framed her for it, He burns bibles to light his cigars, and he taught flying lessons to the terrotists who flew into the world trade center. Hogan is evil I tell ya, pure evil. >>>

 

 

Well, when you have no point to make, kids, I suppose this is what happens.

                                -=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

<<<Quote  

It was booked to show that, without help, Flair couldn't beat Sting.

 

 

That might have been what they were going for, but what it looked like was that Sting needed lots of help in order to secure the title.  Consider how Flair couldn't roll out of the ring with the Dudes tossing him back in and how Scott Steiner tossed Flair's legs off the ropes while he was covering Sting.  So, instead of Sting overcoming odds to win, the odds got stacked totally in his favor.>>>

 

 

No, they prevented Flair from CHEATING.

 

 

<<<Quote  

The Black Scorpion angle was terrible---but how is that Flair's fault? That angle sits squarely on Ole's head. And, since I have the match on tape (they did air the last 10 minutes on TV repeatedly), Flair didn't exactly beat Sting clean.

 

 

The Black Scorpion thing wasn't Flair's fault, I was just recording the history of Sting's title reign.  As I recall, the finish was that both guys hit their heads together, Flair covered Sting, Sting got a foot on the ropes, but Flair pulled it off.  If I'm wrong, please correct me.>>>

 

 

That's it. Not exactly clean. And Sting had Flair beaten but a ref bump prevented that.

                   -=Mike

[Guest muzanisa]

Right.

I don't like to knock peoples choices as favourite wrestlers.

If you choose Test, Hogan, Undertaker, Billy Gunn and X-Pac as your top five wrestlers that's cool. If you say that they're better than my favourites I'll come back and say that mine are better because.....

I won't attack them because of their backstage pull or I read on the net that Test acts as the Buffer for Patterson and Shanes sex games whatever.

 

For every story that has been told on the net ther's a contradictory story out there.

Hogan held Steamboat back and got Honky the IC titlle

or

Steamboat wanted time off, Vince didn't want the belt dormant so gave it to Honky.

 

Hogan got himself in the m/e at WMIV to steal the limelight from Savage or he did it to give Savage the Rub

 

Hogan waited eight years to get a Job back from Warrior or Bischoff had been after him since 95.

 

What's even worse is double net rumours

Hogan held down Sting by screwing up their match

No Flair held down Sting in the Black Scorpion debacle.

 

I have been guilty of this in the past but promise to stop if not attacked first.

If we can have an argument without using these tatics (Or the you like Test then you're a retard) then we might have resolution rather than endless takes on the same points.

[Guest RickyB]

Look, like I said, it's cool if you don't like Hogan... it's your choice.  But there's no point in coming on here and making stupid posts about how Hulk Hogan is the worst backstage politition of all time.  You're going on rumours here, you don't know what happened, neither do I.  So you shouldn't hate someone just because of rumours you've heard.  According to rumours i've heard Hogan has been a good guy to everyone backstage, so at least give the guy a chance.

 

I mean I can understand the guy that says that he doesn't like Hogan because he isn't entertained by him, that's cool.  But I like Hogan because he's always entertained me.  Maybe that's just because i'm not a workrate mark, I've watched Wrestling for years, but I could enjoy a match between Hulk Hogan and Kevin Nash just as much as I could enjoy a match between Mitsuharu Misawa and Akira Nogami or Tripple H and Shawn Michaels.  So if you don't like Hogan, fine, but just understand that it's just your opinion and don't use stupid backstage rumours to back up your opinion.