WWE Apologists

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Do you guys really think WWE will die? Wresling has boom periods, and has down periods. Just look at the past, and history will show that.

 

WWE won't die anytime soon.

But even then each boom period was sparked off by a conscious decision to make a change.

 

In the 80's Vince made the decision to go national and take huge risks.

 

In the 90's Bischoff decided to go head to head with the WWF on Monday night and to form the nWo.

 

In the late 90's Vince made the decision to have a more adult product and to give Austin the ball to run with.

 

Vince's problem right now is he's the only show in town and he's comfortable with it. He doesn't feel that dire need to make changes because there's no competition.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

What happens in the past means next to nothing? Are ya sure?

 

The "next big thing" in pro wrestling came from WCW in the mid-90's. Hulkamania was born in the AWA... The two big booms that helped the WWE take off weren't even started in the WWE... but since you think what happens in the past means nothing for tomorrow, I guess that explains your optimism in the WWE's abilities to produce "the next big thing".

In both cases however, conditions specific to the WWF helped those guys become the stars they could be.

 

 

In Hogan's case, his persona was clearly defined in the WWF, his character was used for every penny, and given a spot on the card that is equivelent to his popularity. In AWA, Hogan was more of a "generic good guy" and in WWF he developed more specific elements.

 

 

For Steve Austin, it's even more radical. In the WCW he was just a mid carder, who revisionist historians would like to say was in line for a his first major program when he was uncerimoniously dumped. In ECW he began to experiment, but the WWF picked him up as a just another midcarder, and let HIM get over. Austin got Austin over, and the WWF responded by increasing his role. That's what a promotion is supposed to do. The WWF gave him an enviroment where upward mobility was possible.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

For Steve Austin, it's even more radical. In the WCW he was just a mid carder, who revisionist historians would like to say was in line for a his first major program when he was uncerimoniously dumped. In ECW he began to experiment, but the WWF picked him up as a just another midcarder, and let HIM get over. Austin got Austin over, and the WWF responded by increasing his role. That's what a promotion is supposed to do. The WWF gave him an enviroment where upward mobility was possible.

 

Austin was pretty over when he was in the Hollywood Blondes and I remember him being a pretty good heel even after that

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

austin was one of the most over heels in WcW during his hollywood blondes days and after that. if he HAD been pushed he would have been a maint event heel.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

For Steve Austin, it's even more radical. In the WCW he was just a mid carder, who revisionist historians would like to say was in line for a his first major program when he was uncerimoniously dumped. In ECW he began to experiment, but the WWF picked him up as a just another midcarder, and let HIM get over. Austin got Austin over, and the WWF responded by increasing his role. That's what a promotion is supposed to do. The WWF gave him an enviroment where upward mobility was possible.

 

Austin was pretty over when he was in the Hollywood Blondes and I remember him being a pretty good heel even after that

Both you two missed the point. The point was NOT how good Austin was, it was that WCW was not a conductive enviroment for advancement.

 

 

Basically speaking: The politics were too fucked up for him to EVER get to the top as Stunning Steve Austin.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Do you guys really think WWE will die? Wresling has boom periods, and has down periods. Just look at the past, and history will show that.

 

WWE won't die anytime soon.

The WWE isn't going anywhere for a couple of years. They have more than a few million in cash reserves. The problem is with the rate they are losing money, those cash reserves will quickly dwindle down and when that finally goes, so goes WWE.

 

Past history shows the boom and cyclical parts of the business, but in the down time of WWF (1992-1997) they at least kept guys on top who could deliver the goods and keep the die hards on board. Right now no one believes in anyone who is on top (HHH, Lesnar, Hogan, Nash) and those on top can't deliver in main events. When they drive enough die hards away, that's when the scariness should kick in.

 

WWE won't die anytime soon because they have backup money, but WWE IS dying right now and it is more painful to watch than WCW because they should've learned from their mistakes and didn't.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

it was that WCW was not a conductive enviroment for advancement.

And the current WWE is?

 

And you're missing RRR's point, which was WWE didn't "make" those stars...they saw that they were good and aquired them.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

it was that WCW was not a conductive enviroment for advancement.

And the current WWE is?

 

And you're missing RRR's point, which was WWE didn't "make" those stars...they saw that they were good and aquired them.

No, but the WWE of 1996 was.

 

 

You missed the point AGAIN. The WWE DID make those stars. They saw potential and they gave them the opportunity. All WCW did was put him out there as a mid carder, they didn't make shit out of him.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

You're missing the point: Had the AWA not started Hulkamania, would the WWE be as successful as it is today? Since Hogan was a *key* factor in it's success, I'd say no. Had WCW not restarted the boom period in the mid-90's with the NWO, would the WWE have changed their product naturally? In both cases instances/creations _outside_ the WWE helped the WWE. The WWE hasn't been able to grow from within. They haven't been able to kick themselves in the ass and jumpstart the company, it's another company that either gives them something to steal OR puts pressure on them to change their product.

[Guest Dangerous A]

You're missing the point: Had the AWA not started Hulkamania, would the WWE be as successful as it is today? Since Hogan was a *key* factor in it's success, I'd say no. Had WCW not restarted the boom period in the mid-90's with the NWO, would the WWE have changed their product naturally? In both cases instances/creations _outside_ the WWE helped the WWE. The WWE hasn't been able to grow from within. They haven't been able to kick themselves in the ass and jumpstart the company, it's another company that either gives them something to steal OR puts pressure on them to change their product.

Bingo.

 

 

Hell, they even stole shit ECW's template of racy storylines and hardcore wrestling style. WWE needs Tony Robbins or something. They just aren't motivated to do anything innovative.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Ah we're getting a little off topic...in some ways. Although RRR did hit on an important fact. These boom periods usually come out of a necessity for change. They happen because competition will overtake them if they do not change.

 

Right now Vince doesn't feel the necessity for change. He blames it on the economy, the war, whatever. Vince has always needed a swift slap in the face before he turns anything around.

 

Question is will it be too late this time around when he finally realizes it?

[Guest Austin3164life]

Vince needs to let the wrestler's start controlling their own destiny. Pro-wrestling is too reliant on creative writing teams. Have the bookers/writers come up with the main idea, but the wrestler's should be able to concoct their own persona and incorporate the main point into their persona on camera. Austin became the most over pro-wrestler in history because he came up with his own gimmick, the WWE gave him the ball, and Austin took it and ran with it. Not Austin and the entire management. Take a look at Cena for instance. He came in as nothing more than a wrestler in the mid-card. The WWE decided to take a chance and see if what Cena offered would work, and it did, and still does. Cena is still growing and is in the top 5 category of most over people in the WWE. Vince relies too much on the Creative Team, rather than the wrestlers, who are the true backbone of pro-wrestling (duh).

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Vince needs to let the wrestlers WRESTLE. It sounds complicated, I know, but it's really not. Take away the fucking dumbass gimmickery ala Mr.America and devote the time you would spend on it to WRESTLING.

 

The WWE not only has the best roster in the history of their company, they have the best roster in pro wrestling right now IMO. They could do so much yet they choose to do so little. Why? Because they hate their fans. Don't ask me why they do but don't try and deny it either. There's really no other explanation for why they do what they do.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Vince wants to and thinks the fans want to watch movies, not wrestling. He's even quoted as wanting to remove the name wrestling from the WWF although I kind of suspect here that he was just trying to make a point that entertainment is the key to bringing the wrestlers in, not the wrestling. This is perhaps why he never truly lets the wrestling prosper.

 

On the subject of WWE dying:

I'm not too sure if wrestling can ever really die. There have been wrestling organizations that have survived with pretty bad wrestling.Despite RAW being horrable to watch it has still been managing to survive in the rankings lately. With the WWE being the only game in town most people only have the choice of watching the WWE program and if they want to get their wrestling fix they have to watch Raw or Smackdown. They have no alternative. The WWF have had a lot worse rosters than they do now and have somehow managed to pull through. The only way they can die IMO is if they keep on upping their current stupidity and at the same time competiton comes along and that competition blows WWE out of the water. If the WWE stays the same while their competition beats them than they will die.